Before to respond to your post, I believe you would agree with me to have a
common grounds on which we should compare data for both countries, as you are using an Indian site
‘South Asian Terrorism portal’ as your basic data source while I am using
‘Global Terrorism Data Base’ maintained by U.S Homeland Security and University of Maryland.
Both data bases have their pros and cons like
- SATP have no data available before 2003 for Pakistan
- GTD have no data available after 2012
- GTD shows accumulative number of Incidents
- SATP shows only number Fatalities
So I decided to use all available data for the period of
2003-2012 in a single table which can be used as a base for our further discussion.
For population size of both countries I used Google Public Data. Hope you would have no issues in this regards.
General Data Tabel for India 2003-2012
General Data Tabel for Pakistan 2003-2012
The essences of all your arguments are
- 'India is better off because of the bigger population than Pakistan.
( In this way you are ignoring the a basic fact that having a bigger population have its own benefits ..... bigger the denominator smaller the output .....
![Wink ;) ;)](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/wink.gif)
)
- Actual numbers have no importance even if one country is enjoying stable Social & Political conditions while other is in State of War, so you are taking the liberty to ignore the different Social & Political condition of Pakistan due to WOT
( I can also take a liberty to ignore the figures on per-capita bases due the different social and political environment in both countries, but I preferred to add a column of 'Fatalities per million' ...... )
Not really.. Just pointed out that your statement of comparing incident numbers in India and Pakistan and showing India only marginally better is flawed because of 3 main reasons..
1. India's population being almost 6-7 times that of Pakistan and still showing marginally lesser numbers of incident actually translates to India being better of by 7-8 times on a per capita incident basis (No comfort there though since ideally the incidents should be zero)
2. Comparing Incidents is really not a true barometer since it equates an adivasi shooting an arrow thru a police man and a suicide bomber blowing up a church killing 80 people
3. Finally, While the total annual casualties in Pakistan since 2005 have increased from 648 to 5379, In case of India they have decreased from 3200 to 884 ... This more importantly shows the trend both countries are following wrt terrorist violence.
for your
first point dear its shows a mentality that one has not be worried about the number of hunters as they are less as compare to number of target ignoring the fact that number of Hunters or in Indian perspective number of incidents are increasing from
196 in 2003 to 609 in 2012 or 310.714% growth in ten years, average casualties in these incidents for the period of 2002-2012 are 11.40 per incident
On the other hand, average fatalities per incidents in Pakistan for the period of 2003-2012 are
10.11
for your
second point my dear I would really like learn that who an 'Adivasi' is proving himself more dangerous than a suicide bomber, comparing the average fatalities per incidents ..... ???
BTW out of
5,161 incidents in Pakistan for the 2003-2012,
284 were suicidal attacks
For your
third point compare the first half i.e.2003-2007 first
points to be observed here:
- Total Fatalities: India 14,988, Pakistan 6,769
- Civilian Fatalities: India 5,416 , Pakistan 3,135
- Average Fatalities per Incident: India 19.94, Pakistan 10.17
Now compare second half of the period 2008-2012 with first half 2003-2007, only for India
points to be observed here:
- Total number of Incidents increased from 767 for first five years of 2003-2007 to 3,089 for the period of 2008-2012
- This indicates 402.73% growth in the number of Incidents and you claim it as decreasing trend.
- Decline in total number of Fatalities could be a temporary phase as the numbers of attacks are increasing
- And rate of neutralizing Terrorist for every single Security force personal decreasing from 358.86% in 2003-2007 to 260.84% in 2008-2012. For Pakistan these rates are 200.08% & 629.65% for respective periods
Will try my best to help you with your doubts.. But personally I believe ignorance is less to do with your place of education and more to do with the mental make up and the society in which that person spends his early years..
Agreed ..... and as a thumb rule it is applicable to both side ......
Fair point. I have in this post now compared India and Pakistan in last 8 years (2005 onwards) where the figures are about 18000 for India and about 49000 for Pakistan . Given the population difference, this shows the per capita terrorism impact in Pakistan is close to 20 times that of India (49000*7/18000)
Pakistan, 26870 terrorists out to 50631 casualties
India, 11812 terrorists out of 24522 casualties..
Using the population to calculate the per capita impact, can only help you to deny the existence of an evil or to portray less fatal scenario rater than gauging the true degree of danger, as in population an 'Adivasi' and a highly trained and motivated terrorist' are equal.
You are making the same mistake here by failing to realized that :
- Out of 17,273 total fatalities in India during 'your preferred period' 53.68% (9,273) were civilian and security personal's casualties combine
- While in Pakistan combined civilian and security personal causalities stands at 43.53%
More of less similar ratio.. Add to the fact that Pak security apparatus is using gunships, Fighter bombers and heavy atry and APCs in their operations, this kind of flips the comparison on the head..
My Dear at this stage I would ask you to concentrate the two columns of 'Fatalities per million' & 'Avg. Fatalities per incidents' in general data table of both India & Pakistan posted above.
In Pakistani Table you will observe that fatalities per million and Avg fatalities per incidents is increasing, which indicates the level of
Planing, Training, Operational execution of terrorist attempts and the professionalism of their '
Handelers'. We are not fighting against the bunch of unorganised, undisciplined groups, they are in fact well trained militia which are certainly not having homegrown elements at their strategic positions. So the use of available resources should not be questioned.
BTW if you have not noticed you need to know after Operation Rah-e-Nijat no full fledged military operation is conducted.
On the other hand data suggest that India is not having any of this sort of problem but 53.68% civilian and security personal casualties (combined) indicates less efficiency of security apparatus.
Pakistan, as a source of terrorism is no longer depends on the same being implied and is mostly accepted as a basic truth across most countries in the world... And the key distinction here is that Pakistan is the country which acts as a source of terrorism to other countries, more specifically India where as the home grown terrorist outfits in India are mostly restricted in their activities domestically.. And there in lies the distinction.
I hope you will try to put some data to support your argument rather than following a famous quote
'tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth' as official and International data does not support your argument.