India vying for air superiority

[$@rJen]

Jf17 bk3 in comparison with Rafale .!!!!!! Wtf.... you guys really day dream... stop kidding...

And.... IAF already have a edge on PAF with mig29 mirage upgraded version and mkis.... poor title

 

[Penguin]

f16 stands no chance against the likes of rafales, eurofighters or Sukhoi 30 and 35, inducting f16s will be a strategic blunder. the pakistani pilots fled the fight with their f16s during the kargil war when they couldnt break the lock by IAF mig 29. f16 should never be inducted in the IAF

Then the answer is simple: don't go one on one. Never give the opponent the favorable scenario.

 

[volatile]

the advanced model f-16 are quite potent. PAF does not have the AWACS to support them

you nailed it bro and your knowledge about PAF is really deep

India already has air superiority over pakistan, the best that paf has is f 16 fighter, our Mirage 2000 and Mig 29s can easily take care of those.

Yes definitely if F16`s were on ground

Indian Navy will take care of PAF in near future. Air force only for China

Good but when as per recent reports Mig29 UPG upgrade is a big failure and all major components which were supposed to be provided by Russia are now in jeopardy
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...india-mig-29k-aircraft-navy-defects/88510782/

PAF was already outclassed against IAF decades ago,
This new modernization will only decide how much time will they survive the onslaught of IAF a few hrs or a day

At least we expected some saner comments from senior members ,Any ways IAF superiority was always in BVR post 2000 but after BVR induction in PAF after 2007 its gone and frankly in Indo Pak theatre BVR is little to play

 

[Signalian]

India already has air superiority over pakistan, the best that paf has is f 16 fighter, our Mirage 2000 and Mig 29s can easily take care of those.

I dont see any IAF planes flying over Pakistani air space. get to know what air superiority means. IAF may have air superiority in its own air space, but not in pakistan's air space.

IAF already had air superiority during kargil war with their bvrs. where PAF didnt had any answer to IAF!!

Rafale with Meteor will rule the skies of south asia for atleast a decade !!

Aim 120C-5 is a proven weapon system. It cannot be neglected in any air war between PAF and IAF.

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan possesses more AWACS as compared to India, in total 7 of them, a mixture of Swedish and Chinese AWACS.

Pakistan
4x Saab 2000 Erieye Horizon
4x Shaanxi ZDK-03 (Y-8F600)

India
3 Beriev A-50EI AEW&C (2 more on order)
2 Embraer ERJ-145 AEWCS AEW&C (these 2 currently undergoing testing by DRDO and IAF. 1 more to be delivered)

Not only fewer aicraft (equal if aircraft on order are included) but airspace to be covered by India is far larger, and India cannot afford IMHO to focus all assets solely on Pakistan.

Indian Navy will take care of PAF in near future. Air force only for China

With what? 33+12 Mig 29K? Hal Tejas is yet to enter Naval Air Arm service (first 6 ordered, total 36 planned)
Versus PAFs current 76 F-16 (13 A/B, 45 AM/BM, 18 C/D), 90 JF-17 (increasing), 75 Mirage 3, 82 Mirage 5 and 184 Shenyang F-7 (Mig 21)

Blah blah blah.

 

[Photon]

Pakistan
4x Saab 2000 Erieye Horizon
4x Shaanxi ZDK-03 (Y-8F600)

India
3 Beriev A-50EI AEW&C (2 more on order)
2 Embraer ERJ-145 AEWCS AEW&C (these 2 currently undergoing testing by DRDO and IAF. 1 more to be delivered)

Not only fewer aicraft (equal if aircraft on order are included) but airspace to be covered by India is far larger, and India cannot afford IMHO to focus all assets solely on Pakistan.

1 SAAB was completely destroyed and one was badly damaged in terrorist attack.
Status of damaged SAAB is unkown, Aircraft itself was suppose to be written off and cannibalized for its radar.

 

[Penguin]

the f-16 is a dated aircraft. if the IAF can purchase 150 F-16D with block 60/70 avionics at $50 million per unit I say purchase it. make sure you have spares for 5 years to avoid any short term embargoes. it is reliable. the cost of operation is lower. there is a reason there are 4000 f-16s world wide

The Douglas A4 Skyhawk, Dassault Super Etendard, IAI Dagger were all (out)dated in 1982. Yet they inflicted heavy damage on Royal Navy. Brit Sea Harriers, while not exactly and air superioirity fighter, did well in A2A due to better missiles and engaging Argentinians at the edge of their combat radius (which de facto limited the Argentinian's ability to engage in A2A). Overconfidence is never a good thing in combat.

 

[SrNair]

you nailed it bro and your knowledge about PAF is really deep

Yes definitely if F16`s were on ground

Good but when as per recent reports Mig29 UPG upgrade is a big failure and all major components which were supposed to be provided by Russia are now in jeopardy
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...india-mig-29k-aircraft-navy-defects/88510782/

At least we expected some saner comments from senior members ,Any ways IAF superiority was always in BVR post 2000 but after BVR induction in PAF after 2007 its gone and frankly in Indo Pak theatre BVR is little to play

BVR is only effective when there is a direct confrontation.It will began to reduce when it switched to tail chase.

And we already have Novator and that Meteor ,Rafale ,Scalp combo and future Astra will put us in decades ahead.
It is about how much time you can defend your air space.

 

[Penguin]

1 SAAB was completely destroyed and one was badly damaged in terrorist attack.
Status of damaged SAAB is unkown, Aircraft itself was suppose to be written off and cannibalized for its radar.

It doesn't change the conclusion: 6 v 5 now and 6 v 8 in the future, with India responsible for covering a land area that is about 3.7 times that of Pakistan (and then I am not counting the sea area, e.g. the surface of the EEZ of both countries)

Incidentally, if one radar and control system was salvagable, it may just be a matter of finding another airframe for it.

 

[Fireurimagination]

If all goes according to plan in the next 10-15 years the disparity between the IAF and PAF will be like that of the two navies

 

[volatile]

Hi ,As on today IAF lacks many of these technologies ,similarly if considered Near Future PAF will always find some thing to cater .Your assumptions are based on PAF doing /inducting any thing already there was much comprehenisve studies done after announcement of Rafale for IAF back 2 years ago and possible weapon systems as well as platform is due .So lets see

BVR is only effective when there is a direct confrontation.It will began to reduce when it switched to tail chase.

And we already have Novator and that Meteor ,Rafale ,Scalp combo and future Astra will put us in decades ahead.
It is about how much time you can defend your air space.

 

[SrNair]

Hi ,As on today IAF lacks many of these technologies ,similarly if considered Near Future PAF will always find some thing to cater .Your assumptions are based on PAF doing /inducting any thing already there was much comprehenisve studies done after announcement of Rafale for IAF back 2 years ago and possible weapon systems as well as platform is due .So lets see

Suppose we look in to possibilities.
Now only three AC is better than Rafale.
EF ,F22 & F35.EF possible but have to pay around 200million$ for one.F 22 ,forget about it ,that is not for export.
F 35 ,possible but Americans not interested in provoking India and also in initial stage and expensive.

We can understand the situation of Chinese after their induction of Su 35 from Russians.

This is for extreme cases ,Rafale would be for North Eastern sector bordering China.
After upgradation ,Mig Upg and Su would be enough for PAF

 

[Penguin]

BVR is only effective when there is a direct confrontation.It will began to reduce when it switched to tail chase.

And we already have Novator and that Meteor ,Rafale ,Scalp combo and future Astra will put us in decades ahead.
It is about how much time you can defend your air space.

Thusfar just the forthcoming Rafales will have the 100+km Meteor (so not there yet), and while India looking into integrating Meteor into Su-30, that too isn't quite a reality just yet. The 110km Astra is still in PreProduction/Testing.

PAF currently operates the 105+ km AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM on its its 18 F-16C/D Block 50/52+ and 45 F-16A/B Block 15 MLU fighters. Who knows, in future it may acquire the 160km+ AIM-120D (C-8)...

 

[volatile]

Suppose we look in to possibilities.
Now only three AC is better than Rafale.
EF ,F22 & F35.EF possible but have to pay around 200million$ for one.F 22 ,forget about it ,that is not for export.
F 35 ,possible but Americans not interested in provoking India and also in initial stage and expensive.

At the moment if counted for Western System`s . Chinese technology is maturing at an alarming rate so lets see what Chinese have to offer like you said (Although i have my own reservations of the view) that Rafale are meant for Chinese theatre so considering the threat matrix for them they will counter it Im sure as they are planning to counter F22/F35 .

After upgradation ,Mig Upg and Su would be enough for PAF

After Upgrading to proposed levels will increase capacities but Block 50+ /F17 Block 3 have many surprises for many ,Any ways will be off topic ,Point being there is going to be closed gap with each opponent ,For the first time i would like to see offensive technology for PAF rather than reactive buys

 

[SrNair]

Thusfar just the forthcoming Rafales will have the 100+km Meteor (so not there yet), and while India looking into integrating Meteor into Su-30, that too isn't quite a reality just yet. The 110km Astra is still in PreProduction/Testing.

PAF currently operates the 105+ km AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM on its its 18 F-16C/D Block 50/52+ and 45 F-16A/B Block 15 MLU fighters. Who knows, in future it may acquire the 160km+ AIM-120D (C-8)...

From ,Americans ,in near future?
I dont think so.
Then they will get two choice
Our defence market or theirs .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-100_(missile)

At the moment if counted for Western System`s . Chinese technology is maturing at an alarming rate so lets see what Chinese have to offer like you said (Although i have my own reservations of the view) that Rafale are meant for Chinese theatre so considering the threat matrix for them they will counter it Im sure as they are planning to counter F22/F35 .

After Upgrading to proposed levels will increase capacities but Block 50+ /F17 Block 3 have many surprises for many ,Any ways will be off topic ,Point being there is going to be closed gap with each opponent ,For the first time i would like to see offensive technology for PAF rather than reactive buys

At the moment if counted for Western System`s . Chinese technology is maturing at an alarming rate so lets see what Chinese have to offer like you said (Although i have my own reservations of the view) that Rafale are meant for Chinese theatre so considering the threat matrix for them they will counter it Im sure as they are planning to counter F22/F35 .

After Upgrading to proposed levels will increase capacities but Block 50+ /F17 Block 3 have many surprises for many ,Any ways will be off topic ,Point being there is going to be closed gap with each opponent ,For the first time i would like to see offensive technology for PAF rather than reactive buys

Based on the assumptions that whatever they created is for Pakistan.
In reality ,Rafale deal signed and will be in there within 3 years.Chinese programs are still in developmental stage and they have to clear their requirments then only can think about export.At least a decade of process.

Of Course that is why they invested in S 400.
For F 22 and 35.