India, U.S. agree to nuclear pact

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 7 2006, 12:14 PM
No one speaks about it? Hardly! Everyday there are interviews by US congressmen and other senior politicians that US has blown a hole in the NPT by doing this.

[post=6751]Quoted post[/post]​

sid u got me wrong,i was mentioning abt india helping iran,why is there a media silence?Why is mushraff silent about it?

and regarding manmohan singh accusing Australia do you have a link?

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Jana@Mar 7 2006, 04:23 PM
well whatever US has done or doing its all about safegaurdign its own intrests. US has no concern with wether the energy would be used for civilian projects or the deal would add to arms race, violat NPT or even lend India in a difficult position cuz sane segments of Indian society have been showing their reservasions about the deal. they are of the opinion that the deal would realy affecte Indian freedom to take important decisions like it was pressurised to do so in case of Iran.
Once India was considered so strong on this front that no one was able to make her take decisions against its will.

[post=6760]Quoted post[/post]​

US wont allow india to use those N fuel,thats why they asked to seperate N reactors and to put civilian ones under IAEA,they will know exactly where the fuel is going.

Sane part of society,who?the communists?the mullahs?jana that was ridiculous.

Dont take Iran as case of arms twisting,what do you think India wud have done otherwise?voted for Iran,PM had stated in the parliament that its not in Indias interest to have 1 more nuclear neighbour.

 

[Spring Onion]

Originally posted by Prashant@Mar 7 2006, 06:21 PM
Sane part of society,who?the communists?the mullahs?jana that was ridiculous.[quote
Dont take Iran as case of arms twisting,what do you think India wud have done otherwise?voted for Iran,PM had stated in the parliament that its not in Indias interest to have 1 more nuclear neighbour.

[post=6771]Quoted post[/post]​

Mullahs????? what they had to do with India im talking about sane segments of Indian society not ours

It whats the indian intelectual are syaing and considering. as for as i had read about Indian political history well i think she was very strong in the past and i think no super power had this kind of influence on her as this time we had seen.
Iran was more trusted friend of India than Pakistan so know it very well.

as for as nuclear energy deal well i wont comment cuz in a day or two i will submit my artilce on it.
(Hope no offense)

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Jana@Mar 7 2006, 05:30 PM
Mullahs????? what they had to do with India im talking about sane segments of Indian society not ours
It whats the indian intelectual are syaing and considering.

[post=6772]Quoted post[/post]​

jana, we have our share of mullahs too...

what are intelectuals saying in india?

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 6 2006, 07:53 PM
Yes, Indian scientists were helping Iran, you don't hear much about it now because its the latest 'hush hush' topic in US foreign policy because they don't want to embarass their 'new' strategic ally.

[post=6724]Quoted post[/post]​

Sid,
I've heard this rumor on other forums aswell, but never seen a link to support such accusations.
Do you have some link?
I'm reall curious on this one.

Thanks!

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 3 2006, 07:17 PM
BANG on target Neo. If NPT does not mean anything to the US when it comes to its national agenda and safeguarding of its national interests, then it has no right to direct criticism at, lets say, nuclear cooperation between China and Pakistan who are also doing what they think is right for their national interests.

Indeed, thats my whole point here!
National interest comes first. China and Pakistan have been all weather friends for more than five decades now, while US has proven to be merely a very good weather friend.
Relying on China therefor is our best option, we shouldn't even have considered getting nuclear reactors from the USA, thats one think that simply won't happen for a very very long time!

The A.Q. Khan drama is being used as a lame excuse to hold back the sale to Pakistan. Let me tell you one thing. Even if there was a clean proliferation record on Pakistan, the US would have found other excuses to hold back the sale.
Pakistan being an nuclear armed Islamic country will remain a potential threat to the US and therefor a permanent nuclear pariah as per their foreign policy.
How lame is it to hold back the sale becoz of poliferation risk; Well the transparancy of double standards is to be driven from the similar deal that was offered to North Korea, the most rogue anti western country on earth.
USA can provide Pyong Yang with light water civil reactor but says no to Pakistan???

US has dealth a huge blow to the NPT. Just like Iran and North Korea have withdrawn from the NPT, I wouldn't be surprised if more nations followed suit. US has come to terms with its double standards policy or it faces an uphill task in restoring its credibility around the globe, especially after the war in Iraq.

[post=6611]Quoted post[/post]​

Wellsaid!
Thats exactly what will happen.

 

[Sid]

Originally posted by Neo@Mar 7 2006, 04:21 PM
Sid,
I've heard this rumor on other forums aswell, but never seen a link to support such accusations.
Do you have some link?
I'm reall curious on this one.

Thanks!

[post=6791]Quoted post[/post]​

Well wherever I read it, I never got aroud to saving the link or anything. And I cannot find it anymore. My sources are skeptical about it as well so I'd advise not to read too much in to this.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 8 2006, 06:19 AM
Well wherever I read it, I never got aroud to saving the link or anything. And I cannot find it anymore. My sources are skeptical about it as well so I'd advise not to read too much in to this.

[post=6813]Quoted post[/post]​

Ok, thanks!
But the link would come handy coz the issue is gets repeated from time to time.

 

[Bull]

india and iran had warm ties, i havent read anything more than that anywhere.

And wih respect to str partner,china definitly fist the bill as for now.But understand the best option is always not to be too depndant on anything.US and China can cosy up to each toehr anytime,since both are inter dependant for economic resurces.

So whether US, or Chia pakistan needs to have much for diverse areas of acquistion from south africa to sweden.

 

[Neo]

In longer term, Pakistan shuld certainly become more and more independant or atleast try to depend less on one ally.

But for the time being, we're stuck in between the US and China.
Friendship with the US means sustainable economic growth whereas China will remain the major arms suppier for atleast another decade or two.

Geo-politics change, allies change. There's no guarantee for durable friendship.
US and India may start a global partnership now against China, but the balance could shift in any direction in future.

If it does, Pakistan would not want to find itself on the wrong side, so better stick with our neighbors China and India.
Call me an idealist, but thats the best option there is.

 

[Spring Onion]

Hello guys im posting my artilce here regarding Bush visit.
The link is also posted here so please take some time out to read it.

{I will be gratfull if u guys click the linke read it and post comments no matter even if ur comment is criticism but kindly do comment on it on the web site where it has been published}
HOPE YOU GUYS HAVE FEW MINUTES.
Thanks
Regards Jana


Hello

Your Friend (janashah_1@yahoo.com) has forwarded you this
link of her article from the website of PakTribune.
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=136781


Repercussion of Bush visit; US-Indo deal
Thursday March 09, 2006 (2328 PST)



The fruitless visit of US President Bush to Pakistan ended in a disappointment; however the repercussions of his overall visit will also go a long way for the region in particular and the world in common for many reasons. The US president`s visit to South Asia has cleared the picture to a greater extent vis a vis US future policy for the region specially its policy towards Pakistan is pretty much clear now.

The latest India-US civil nuclear technology accord and renewed offer of sale of F-16 and F-18s to India clearly indicate that US is considering India as a natural ally in the light of its interests in the region hence she is transforming India into a global power. Bush assertion that India and Pakistan have different history and needs (history? probably nuclear history and ostensibly because of non-proliferation concerns) while replying to a query during joint press conference regarding offering similar facility to Pakistan, shows the US following a different frame work for both the countries. We have been made to accept mere rhetorical praises regarding our role and efforts in war on terror which led us to expect more from US while practically we have been ignored. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice last Friday also ruled out a similar nuclear technology deal with Pakistan.

Keeping in view the changing geo-political tactics of US, Pakistan needs to review its policies mainly its cooperation with the US. Looking back at the past record of the US we need to realise before it is too late that US wants to engage us in our internal affairs by fighting war on terror, stabilising Afghanistan for US long-standing interests, while keeping us happy just with the lip service and showering the praises upon us but doing nothing practical on ground. We have been nosed-out for a long now resulting in more damage to us than any gains in this war on terror.
Coming back to the US-India nuclear energy deal--the analysts consider it as a power projection of India. Looking at the energy programmes of India one would easily comprehend that it is quite difficult to separate the programme for the civilian uses from the military use as both had been from the very beginning integrated together into one.

The deal has some immense strategic dimensions which has also been pointed out by Ashly in his article in the Washington Post. He says, “although it has been termed for civilian use yet it is aimed at to counter-weigh India against China”.
The deal surely would add to the wide gap of balance of power in the region. According to the reports India has about 250 tons of P239 plutonium which the energy deal would enable her to spare all for `other` nuclear projects. According to an estimate India will be able to produce 50 to 60 Nuke war-heads per year which means she would have a large nuclear arsenal in a few years from now. One wonders as to why the US has indulged in such a deal which would decrease the chances of sale of US weapons once India is able to produce these herself in that quantities. Similarly, the deal besides giving a new context to Pakistan`s quest for the sophisticated conventional weapons, would also affect not only China but also Russia, France, UK Germany etc. There is already a huge imbalance that exists in the conventional capabilities of Pakistan and India and the nuclear deal would compel it to lean more heavily on strengthening the minimum deterrence (clearly nuclear) as an equaliser. Would it not once again place the contenders at the start line of the arms race track?

On the international front the deal and the visit are going to further polarise the world. Russia still hoping to be a close ally of India and China – as the affected party - must be closely watching the deal, while these developments have certainly provided an opportunity to Pakistan to review its relations with the regional states specially the Russia, China and Iran.

However, we need not be unduly worried that Bush had just taken us for granted, as one is likely to perceive from his activities here which were unimportant to the extent of embarrassing us and our government. On the contrary, one should realise that his such useless visit has given us an opportunity to take the stock of the situation in real terms and not rely on the US in matters significant to our national supreme interests. Prudence demands that we look for the alternates around and focus more on China, Russia and the Muslim world as they could be more supportive to us than US in any eventuality. It is also time that we analysed afresh our attitude towards our nuclear programme. So far it has been only a tool for the sub-continental power balance vis a vis India. I think, we should start exploring the possibilities of thermo nuclear explosion and/or the hydrogen bomb.

India is looking beyond the region as it has almost completed the largest Naval base of Asia at Goa. Coupled with the US offer of F-18s it would extend her reach to the regions far beyond. The world is watching this emerging power with mixed concerns and countries from Saudi Arabia to Indonesia are trying to have good relations with it. We, too, need to look into this aspect. We need to overcome our externalities; gradually decrease our dependence on the US, extricate ourselves from fighting their war on terror. Gradually, mend the fences fully with our neighbours – Kabul and Tehran. We must have the friendliest of the relations with them otherwise we will stand isolated from our all neighbours. In China we have the most dependable and reliable ally. We must not let even a shadow of doubt creep into our crystal clear and highly friendly relationship with them. If US has designs to strengthen India against China, they will have to do much better than that as China will not be alone. And Pakistan, too, will not be alone INSHALLAH.


End.

• More Articles by Farzana Shah



Thank you.
PakTribune
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http://www.paktribune.com

 

[Nasir]

U.S wants to help Pakistan with engery but not exactly with nuclear technology. This gives us a sign that U.S still is not happy with the A.Q. Khan thingy that is going around and comes around to hunt us.

U.S to help india with nuclear technology typically accepts them as a nuclear nation.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle....&archived=False

 

[Neo]

Good article Jana jee!

In my humble opinion, we're putting too much time and fruiteless effort to uderstand the Indo-US deal. Opposition and the islamists have blown the event out of proportion just to gain political miles.

US U-turn in South Asian policies and interest didn't come as a surprise, experts had already predicted change of winds.
US needs a powerful ally to curb growing chinese influence in the region and besides that, growing Indian economy means big earning for US traders and economy.

Should we feel threatend or betrayed?
Not at all!

We've had on and off relationship with the US for half a century, seen many ups and downs...to be frankly less ups and more downs and we know them well.
US has a record of changing foreign policies as long as it suits national interest, thats the game called politics.
Today India seems important, tomorrow it could be China, indonesia or Vietnam.

There are a few factors that will not change and thats where our strength lies;
Our geopolitical situation!

Regardless the political development in te region, Pakistan will establish itself as a corridor to oil and gas rich CAR and China making Gwadar an powerful regional hub and trade centre.
US cannot afford to lose the port completely to China and therefor will not abandon Pakistan as yet. Gwadar has more stretegic importance than many realise.
The port will open June this year, the infrastructure is developping rapidly.

We should not seek parity with India when it comes to our relationship with the US, but instead count our own blessings and focus on China.
As a major ally and neighbor, China's interest in Pakistan will never decline, even if Indo-China relationship improves in future.
China needs Pakistani corridor for its fast developping western provinces and we will benefit from this economic boom.

So, let this Indo-US honeymoon be for what it is today, we are a souvereign country with our own strategic importance.
Alliance with US has not always provided what we need, instead we've served them for five decades. So there's not much to lose there.

Its time to gain self consciousness and rethink our foreign policy. To diversify our sources and make new friends.

 

[Neo]

A good read article from the Jang I read recently.
Fully agree with the author;

Bush and power

Azam Khalil

"Power will intoxicate the best hearts, as wine the strongest heads. No man is wise enough nor good enough to be trusted with unlimited power." Colton

Never in history has a person with such a poor grasp over issues and without much idea of history risen to become the President of the United States. Ironically, George W Bush has come to office at a time when the Americans are the only superpower, ahead of everyone in both military and economic might.

The American President, who is surrounded by hawks and Zionists, has declared a war against Muslims under the garb of "war against terror." This policy is not only perilous but has every potential for disaster. The first reaction of Mr Bush after the grisly events of 9/11 was that a "crusade" has begun. He withdrew his remark but the world had caught a glimpse of his mindset. On his recent visit to India and Pakistan, the American President once again revealed his mindset and arrogantly displayed his lust for power.

By prodding India to open up 65 per cent of its nuclear facilities, Bush scored a victory that would allow American policy-makers to prepare India to contain and perhaps isolate China. Who will stop the transfer of technology from 65 per cent to 35 per cent and vice versa? The Americans and Indians will be kidding one another and no one else.

The offer of advanced nuclear technology to the Indians, who had defied the international community by refusing to sign the NPT, is fraught with dangers. By doing so, the president has blown an ugly hole in the Non-Proliferation Treaty allowing angry wasps in the shape of Iran and North Korea to come out and sting the treaty to death.

If we read part 2 of article III of the NPT it would be clear why India refused to sign the treaty. Now the transfer of advanced technology in the field of nuclear "services" is a serious violation by the American government. The Article reads: "Each state Party to the Treaty undertakes not to provide: (a) Source or special fissionable material, or (b) equipment or material especially designed or prepared for the processing, use or production of special fissionable material, to any non nuclear weapon state for peaceful purposes, unless the source or special fissionable material, shall be subject to the safeguards required by this article."

Till yesterday the Americans had been stating that they do not recognise Pakistan and India as nuclear weapon states. Suddenly in a U-turn they have the Indians in a tight embrace. This is bound to have widespread repercussions in the region.

It is interesting to cite a few instances of American friendship and the price they extract from leaders and the nations they befriend. When Zulfikar Ali Bhutto presented the theory of "oil as a weapon" it was embraced by King Faisal of Saudi Arabia. Bhutto immediately confided with his top aides that the Americans were after his blood. The same pattern of American friendship and policy was seen in the case of President Sukarno and later of President Marcos. And who can forget the fate of the Shah of Iran, an American puppet who implemented the strategic interests of the United States in the Middle East. People are also aware of what happened to Ziaul Haq, who was a key player in the defeat of the Russian army in Afghanistan and the subsequent break-up of the USSR. Things will not be any different for Manmohan Singh or India in case the Americans decide that they are no longer useful tools in the furtherance of their policies in this region.

The situation is not so bad for Pakistan or for Pervez Musharraf due to the strategic geographical location of Pakistan and the fact that the country was ahead of India in the nuclear field. India, with all the American assistance, will require about five to seven years just to catch up, even if no progress is made by the Pakistanis during this period. The other point that favours this country is that all carbon and fossil fuels from the Central Asian Republics will flow through Gwadar increasing the port’s strategic value. This will help Pakistan earn substantial amounts of foreign exchange. Many are finding this situation difficult to digest.

These points are not lost on the Americans and the Indians who have ganged up in Afghanistan and are creating mischief in Balochistan. Here some sardars are dancing to their tune. Tons of money and arms are flowing from Afghanistan into Balochistan and the recent outburst from President Musharraf is an indicator that the cup of his patience is now full.

One has to examine here the utterances of schoolmaster Bush who made an effort to close his eyes to these realities and instead chose to preach a sermon to the Pakistani leadership. This attitude exposed the political beliefs and revealed the level of understanding of the American administration about issues in this region.

They should remember that after the Shah fled Iran not a single Iranian citizen could dare to support the United States. Things could be worse in Pakistan, a factor that should have been taken into account by President Bush when he tried to distance himself from Pervez Musharraf just to appease India. Bush also refused to be drawn in on the Kashmir issue and lost a good opportunity to cement ties with Pakistan. Instead, some of his utterances caused embarrassment to the Pakistanis who quickly tried to indulge in damage control. However, the mullahs jumped in and tried to reap a political harvest.

It is now the right time for President Musharraf to chart a short- and long-term policy for the country. This must be done with utmost care keeping the interests of the country supreme. There is talk of a long-term friendship treaty between Pakistan, China, Iran, Indonesia and Malaysia that would be mutually beneficial for all countries with the priority being on economic development and security. If all these countries become strong they could play an important role on the world stage. This would in turn increase political stability in a volatile region. Relations with the European Union also need to be reassessed and improved because there is a window that would allow "fresh air" to flow in.

The axis of India and Afghanistan needs to be countered more effectively and the best way to do this is to put the Afghans in their place. Trade concessions and other facilities to Afghanistan should be withdrawn. All Afghan refugees must be sent back to their country as there was no justification for them to remain here. The borders should be fenced and all objections by Karzai rejected.

Pakistan needs to send a strong signal even if we have to pay a price. A candid discussion with the Indians on the subject is overdue. These measures will also have the support of a vast majority of Pakistanis. What else could one want?

The writer is a freelance columnist based in Lahore Email: zarnatta@hotmail.com

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/mar2006-dai...006/oped/o4.htm

 

[Tariq Iqbal]

Excellent thinking Mr. Neo. If your following with the recent news and discussion which i just read in the strategic discussion forum it seems that Pakistan now understands that too. No matter what we do now, i have been living in United States, now its easy, and a funny jokes that i get hit with once in a while me being a "terrorist" of some kind even though i am not Arab or look like Arab.

The hatred have spread all over, and there is not much we can do to stop. If we stay aligned with Chinese it will be much promising alliance and support from both sides, and our whole country loves China, whereas the same thing is not true with being with the United States, but just being aligned with a little time with them is in our common interest even if they are not promising ally.

The future looks like India-Russia and Pakistan-China. United States will act like whatever as the government and congress politics change.