India trying to wear a mask of sympathy with Pakistan

[wildlens]

Self-confession footage isn't admissible as evidence in courts. But not what people were arguing. Anyway, can you confirm that you think a Hindu rapist openly admitting to murder and protection from BJP doesn't amount to much?

if Imran Kha says there will be mayhem and there is mayhem on his arrest do you think he is not responsible.
That was the original topic.
If there is no evidence that Ik is complicit then he is free.

You have imagined it.


This one line is worth a negative rating.

I have been living outside the country and rely on what I read. I see that there is a cabal which is a mini industry out to dicredit Modi. In the initial days I was very against Modi but over the years I feel that all this is staged and political in nature. It is not only the case against Modi but also a lot of side stories like the disgusting lie that Laloo said when he was Railway minister which buttresses my opinion.
The only institution in India which is still upright is the Supreme Court esp under the current CJI and hence I defer to whatever is pronounced there. Much as I used to believe that there is some guilt as far as Modi is concerned which has now diminished to a lingering doubt, I am also disgusted at the fact that A Raja was discharged in the 2G case. no choice but to accept and Mamata in several scams that ruined people, one needs to accept the verdict. Otherwise it would be a free for all.

 

[hatehs]

You have imagined it.

Explain?

if Imran Kha says there will be mayhem and there is mayhem on his arrest do you think he is not responsible.
That was the original topic.
If there is no evidence that Ik is complicit then he is free.

He later claimed the whole thing was scripted. Then there were lots of things that did not add up. As you say if he is a criminal, the credibility of what he says is already diminished.

Actually, I have to adjust my original statement after digging in, since the courts actually held up Ashish Ketan's testimony in court:

Every day I'm convinced to completely stop trusting you vile OpIndia posting H's. There is never a day you aren't lying through your teeth to defend some rapist or murderer.

 

[wildlens]

Explain?


Actually, I have to adjust my original statement after digging in, since the courts actually held up Ashish Ketan's testimony in court:

View attachment 932409

Every day I'm convinced to completely stop trusting you vile OpIndia posting H's. There is never a day you aren't lying through your teeth to defend some rapist or murderer.

Sure, I will stop quoting opindia if you stop seeing two circles or wire or quint etc
The very fact you are already pronouncing a verdict like rapist or murderer is testament to the fact that you rely on hearsay.

May I know the source of above pls.
I am quoting a reasonable centrist and left centre magazine who are typically against BJp (rip Vinod Mehta)

2002 Naroda Gam Riots Case: Court Says Prosecution's Evidence Full Of Contradiction; Criticises SC-appointed SIT

The court of special judge S K Baxi on April 20 acquitted all the 67 accused, including former state Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) minister Maya Kodnani, ex-Vishwa Hindu Parishad leader Jaydeep Patel and former Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi.

www.outlookindia.com

“
Offences filed against former Bajrang Dal leader Babu Bajrangi on the basis of a sting operation are also not reliable, it said.

Journalist Ashish Khetan, who conducted the sting operation, said he kept a relevant portion of the original audio record and micro chip and deleted the remaining, the court noted.

The recording was deleted from the point he was admitted to hospital where he claimed to be at the time, and "extra judicial confession" cannot be considered evidence when it is not supported by other competent evidence, the court said.
“

“The claim of criminal conspiracy was made by witnesses six-and-a-half years after the incident, and the SIT did not bother to verify their statements which were in "contradiction" to statements given earlier to the Gujarat police officers before 2008, it said. “
@Joe Shearer these are the kinds of material that influence my opinion towards the fact that a lot retro fitting was attempted after UPA came to power.

 

[Salim Toshkhana]

Pakistan is in this situation because of it's own incompetence and wrong policies and not because of India or US.

 

[AA_]

Out of interest, which country currently or in the last 1000 years had a truly and completely Islamic government. Curious.

This is a very long debate which I don’t feel like getting into because I’m exhausted from work.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have been living outside the country and rely on what I read.

There is then a great gulf between our positions.

I have lived outside for a few years at a time, but always tethered to the country; it is the next generation that I fear will walk away, and I do not look forward to that.

Within the country, at my age, I do have an extensive circle of acquaintances and even friends, the proportions having shifted progressively and inexorably over the years. As far as the views of others outside these circles are concerned, like others, like you, I depend on what I hear and what I read. So there is a great deal that comes to me in terms of what is going on, that never appears in print or on the Internet.

 

[PradoTLC]

The Indian government were constantly advising to deny the visa. ps He visited China many times

The only reason I brought in Modi is because if you say IK role is doibtful, then Modi role has been shut. Law needs to be consistent which is why so many criminal politicians are still plying. I think Modi instigated the riots but so far no one including congress were able to pin him down. The Supreme Court has shut the case and absolved Modi.
In similar light you are correct that IK role is still alleged, similar to the allegations above. The matter is yet to take its course.

Man you make up more BS than our army

 

[wildlens]

There is then a great gulf between our positions.

I have lived outside for a few years at a time, but always tethered to the country; it is the next generation that I fear will walk away, and I do not look forward to that.

Within the country, at my age, I do have an extensive circle of acquaintances and even friends, the proportions having shifted progressively and inexorably over the years. As far as the views of others outside these circles are concerned, like others, like you, I depend on what I hear and what I read. So there is a great deal that comes to me in terms of what is going on, that never appears in print or on the Internet.

Just to let you know, I was no big fan of Modi and did not know much about RSS until 2014. I was very upset when Vajpayee lost power but he paid the price for not removing Modi. But seeing the desperate attempts overseas to stymie any Indian effort at progress I have slowly been seeing a shift in my own perception that this is politically motivated. Also when you couple that with actual changes in the system that’s happening and the PM has been risking huge amounts of political capital for some good that he believes in eg the farm laws, I am seeing myself siding with the Govt of late.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I see that there is a cabal which is a mini industry out to dicredit Modi.

That is a terribly wrong impression, and is perhaps based on the preponderance of news in what used to be neutral but very active media that is in favour of Modi and his government, and on your perception that all the hostility against him is confined to a steadily decreasing circle of electronic journalists, who have gradually been driven out of formal media positions.

A moment's reflection on the situation might change your perception fundamentally. If you are aware of the progressive shift in ownership, the existing entrenched ownership and the steady changes in position of formerly opposed journalists over a ten-year period, not to mention the significant investments that were made in media ownership by interested parties, you might understand why there is nothing unfavourable to Modi in official media, and all that is unfavourable comes from a shrinking circle of diehards.

If it occurs to you to argue that this is only a reversal of positions, and that surely in other times, the situation was exactly the opposite, that is an illusion assiduously created by the extremely robust media management apparatus that backs Modi, headed by the Goebbels of the age, Amit Malviya. Except for the Hindustan Times, that was founded and owned by K. K. Birla, one of G.D.'s more politically inclined children (none of the others took the old man's very active stand, and his brother, B.M., and his line stayed out of the limelight in an almost aggressive effort to avoid publicity).

Only the Hindustan Times.

Going by the tenor of your posts, you will undoubtedly come back with completely wrong impressions of people who might have been opposed to Modi. The trouble is that they were also completely opposed to the Congress. Unfortunately, using the filters that have been gifted to those who are not intimately familiar with the country's developments in the past quarter century, this is not apparent: the point of view that is promoted is 'If you are not for us, you are against us.'

In this and other posts in which I respond to you, and indirectly, to @hatehs, I do not seek to change your opinion; it is already known that once a bhakt, always a bhakt. My effort is to place on record what happened, to contradict the utterly distorted impressions that have been disseminated. Disseminated with a purpose.

It is not only the case against Modi but also a lot of side stories like the disgusting lie that Laloo said when he was Railway minister which buttresses my opinion.

To use the pro-Mandal/post-Mandal political tribe and their vileness to justify Modi and the BJP is a trap into which a great many of the privileged upper caste Indians fall. I am sorry, but not very surprised to see you fall into that trap.

The only institution in India which is still upright is the Supreme Court esp under the current CJI and hence I defer to whatever is pronounced there.

While I broadly agree with you, there are gaps.

The failure to rule on the abrogation (not the correct word, the method used was very subtle, and technically very well-structured, while remaining wholly illicit) of Art. 370 is one. The failure to rule out the splitting of the state of J&K in express contradiction of the state's constitution and the stipulations embedded in the accession to the Indian Union by the last sovereign ruler is another. There are a number of other instances, but it is difficult to fault them considering the severe stress to which they have been put by the government and its machinery.

Here, too, I do not trust a single one of Shah J.'s orders.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Much as I used to believe that there is some guilt as far as Modi is concerned which has now diminished to a lingering doubt,

I regret to have to say that this was a premature conclusion to your suspicions of guilt. Those are frankly beyond suspicion, and on open and unbiased enquiry, become judicial fact. I can take you through the whole sorry mess.

I am also disgusted at the fact that A Raja was discharged in the 2G case.

As for this, the evidence is increasingly clear that an ambitious C&AG had concocted figures and created a criminal conspiracy around the ministry. There were several charges levied at one and the same time, all emanating from this ambitious individuals Excel-spreadsheet-like manufacturing of business lost, but except for the Coal scam, all have collapsed.

I have my doubts about Raja's politics; his performance as a minister is not quite so firmly criminal, and begs for a deeper exploration than that which found him not guilty. If there is something to it, it needs to be discovered, and we need not go along with Vinod Rai's Walter Mitty moments.

 

[Joe Shearer]

no choice but to accept and Mamata in several scams that ruined people, one needs to accept the verdict.

This was abuse of power, and she should have been behind bars.

She has got away due to two factors: one, the resounding vote in her favour, in the teeth of a vicious campaign by the BJP, two, the TINA factor, where nincompoops like Swapan DasGupta (a Trotskyite while he was in La Martiniere, and at St. Stephens, and a sudden convert to the Sangh, along with his batch-mate, the late Chandan Mitra) were being suggested. I believe my own batch-mate Ashok Lahiri, a registered turd, was also in the running.

 

[GodToons]

Explain?


Actually, I have to adjust my original statement after digging in, since the courts actually held up Ashish Ketan's testimony in court:

View attachment 932409

Every day I'm convinced to completely stop trusting you vile OpIndia posting H's. There is never a day you aren't lying through your teeth to defend some rapist or murderer.

Ashish Kheta, Rana ayub, Mukul Sinha, that IPS who claimed that Modi gave orders not to act, Thehalka and a few others allege a lot but was not able to provide any iota of evidence to substantiate the allegation. Court does not work on "Trust me Bro" method.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just to let you know, I was no big fan of Modi and did not know much about RSS until 2014. I was very upset when Vajpayee lost power but he paid the price for not removing Modi. But seeing the desperate attempts overseas to stymie any Indian effort at progress I have slowly been seeing a shift in my own perception that this is politically motivated. Also when you couple that with actual changes in the system that’s happening and the PM has been risking huge amounts of political capital for some good that he believes in eg the farm laws, I am seeing myself siding with the Govt of late.

I understand.

I also disagree.

Rather than dragging you backwards through a hedge, I will leave it to you to decide if this warrants a rebuttal and resulting further discussion.

Ashish Kheta, Rana ayub, Mukul Sinha, that IPS who claimed that Modi gave orders not to act, Thehalka and a few others allege a lot but was not able to provide any iota of evidence to substantiate the allegation. Court does not work on "Trust me Bro" method.

We all know how their testimony was undercut, and quoting these as cases of lack of evidence only displays a bought-up bhakt.

A Hindu who was a key suspect in 2002 mob violence cases confesses to his role and BJP leaders personally ensuring he is protected. Another Hindu says that it doesn't amount to much. The solidarity Tanatanis have for rapists among their own is astounding.

This is illusion, because the reality is far from what you, and many other Pakistanis imagine. There is no unity, none whatsoever, among Hindus, however you slice and dice that constituency, favouring Modi.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Just to let you know, I was no big fan of Modi and did not know much about RSS until 2014. I was very upset when Vajpayee lost power but he paid the price for not removing Modi. But seeing the desperate attempts overseas to stymie any Indian effort at progress I have slowly been seeing a shift in my own perception that this is politically motivated. Also when you couple that with actual changes in the system that’s happening and the PM has been risking huge amounts of political capital for some good that he believes in eg the farm laws, I am seeing myself siding with the Govt of late.

You may have noticed that you were awarded a negative rating for that very shallow and unworthy remark about Teesta Setalvad and Sanjeev Bhatt, and that it was removed when it sank in that you had genuine misgivings, that these were not based on a predisposed political and social position, but were (in my opinion) a misreading of the facts against the backdrop of a social status that subtly favoured such a misreading.

I believe, knowing that it may land up with many eggs on my face, that both your bete noire, @hatehs , and you are open to evidence of a concrete, or, at any rate, of a convincing kind.

Let us see.

 

[firohot4321]

By Brig. General Asif H. Raja


The Brahmans, Thakurs, and the extremist Hindu parties are dancing with joy over the dismal internal situation of Pakistan, which had never gone through such multiple crises in the shape of political, social, and economic instability, insecurity and its overall economy is at the brink of collapse. The extremist Hindu leaders aspiring for Mahabharata find their dreams coming true.

Without political stability, Pakistan’s economy cannot be stabilized. Uncertainty discourages foreign investors from investing and disheartens the business class.

The PTI is the major driving force behind political destabilization and it has made it its major plank to win the next elections.

Not only has the PTI created extreme political polarization, but it also refuses to hold talks with the ruling regime to achieve unity and stability. It dubs the ruling regime as illegal and imported. It has been instrumental in creating fissures within the rank and file of the army for the first time.

Never before has the army chief and senior army generals been insulted as Imran Khan (IK) has been doing since April last year. He caused severe damage to the reputation of the army by declaring former army chief Gen Qamar Bajwa a traitor and responsible for his ouster from power. Even now he is in his firing line.


IK and his party did what RAW couldn’t achieve in the five decades.

Three foreign-based veterans and social media added fuel to fire to discredit the army and to create a wedge between the people and the army.

Indian media has been glorifying IK and offering him funds to make his propaganda campaign more pungent.

The traditional adversaries of Pakistan, the US, Israel, and India, which are averse to the Pakistan nuclear program, are finding the internal political imbroglio in Pakistan, further compounded by economic and dollar crises ideal to fish in troubled waters.

The IMF is being brutally used by the US to make Pakistan economically weak, and make it permanently dependent upon the IMF.

With the help of PTI and other anti-state segments in Pakistan, chaos and anarchy is being fomented and conditions are created for a civil war.

IK and other PTI leaders never miss an opportunity to portray Pakistan as a failed state and that very soon its situation would be similar to Sri Lanka.

A stage has come as can be deciphered from this video clip in which Indian media is cleverly sympathizing with the frail internal situation of Pakistan and the sorry plight of Pakistanis groaning under the weight of soaring prices.


Indian media has once again begun to portray India as Shining, where everything is good and Indian people are basking in the sunshine of peace, happiness, and prosperity. A comparison of prices of daily commodities is made to sprinkle salt on our injuries.

India forgets about the BJP-led ruling regime’s fascism, racism, and crimes against the minorities in India including the Hindu Dalits and the Kashmiris in IOK. It is breaking all records of tyranny and human rights and has surpassed the cruelties of Halaku, Changez khan and the Nazis.

India has become a living hell for minorities, especially Muslims. IOK has been turned into the biggest military garrison and an open prison where the Muslim Kashmiris have been denied their basic rights and are treated like animals. Rape is used as a coercive tool and the demography of the state is being changed.
Modi after coming to power in June 2014, tore apart the so-called farce of secularism in India and is bent on converting India into a Hindu state based on the conception of RSS Hindutva. In all the BJP-ruled states of the Indian Union, Hindutva laws have been implemented. Minorities are treated as 2nd rated citizens.

37 separatist movements and insurgencies are raging in various parts of India, of which the Naxalites, the Sikhs, and the Kashmiris movements have become existential threats. 15 Lacs Indian forces are employed in India to quell the insurgencies and a similar number is deployed in the small valley of Kashmir.

With such a black record, it is paradoxical that India is gloating over its achievements and trying to create an impression that the poor classes in India are living a comfortable life and are being given equal opportunities of social growth and fair justice is dispensed to them. How can fair justice be delivered when in greater parts of India, Draconian black laws have been enforced, and the deprived class is forced to commit suicides?
India also forgets that till as late as 1992, Pakistan was far ahead of India in GDP, per capita income, and all economic indicators, and the Pak rupee was much stronger than the Indian rupee.

India made an economic turnaround in the early 1990s due to all-out the support of the USA, West, and Israel. It didn’t have to worry about subversion and external meddling from neighbors as well as external threats to its security, as in the case of Pakistan.

After 1962, for the first time, China posed a threat to India in the northern Himalayas. To meet the Chinese threat, the western world is providing the latest war munitions and is upgrading its nuclear capability so as to become a bulwark against China. On the ground, 70% of Indian forces are poised against Pakistan.
Once Pakistan acquired nuclear capability, the entire western world led by the USA, Israel, and India ganged up to pull down Pakistan.

Pakistan was subjected to a 20-year war on terror in which it suffered 80,000 human losses and 150 billion dollars in financial losses.
India played a lead role in debilitating Pakistan and earned maximum benefits from the US and Israel.
The latest sympathetic posturing of India is in no way meant to help Pakistan in its hour of distress. Indian media is trying to sympathize with the people of Pakistan, asserting that they cannot be blamed for the wrongful division of India.

It is once again playing the old themes, that partition of India was a big mistake, and that Hindus and Muslims lived in complete harmony in united India until the British created divisions in the two communities under its divide-and-rule policy. As usual, Indian media is distorting historical facts and realities and is instigating the Pakistanis by saying that had Pakistan not separated, the economy of united India would have been stronger than China.

Indian psy operators have begun to sell the old merchandise that would have been highly beneficial for the Indian Muslims had they stayed within the Indian Union rather than opting for Pakistan.
The Indian leaders are past masters in deceit, intrigue, and falsehood and they change colors like a chameleon. Until very recently, the BJP leaders were expressing their wish to annex AJK-GB. They say that other than these two regions, which in their view are part of the Indian Union, India is not interested in other parts of Pakistan which are radical, out of control, and full of problems.

The idea is to stir up the feelings of the segment which was deadly against the creation of Pakistan. They are now trying to win over disgruntled segments in Pakistan.
They ignore the fact that today the Pakistanis have seen the ugly face of India and its dangerous designs, and are thanking Quaid e Azam for having gifted Pakistan to them where they could live freely and practice their religion freely.

Subversion has been the age-old practice of India and it has achieved much of its objectives against Pakistan with the help of sabotage and subversion. War in former East Pakistan was won on the platform of psychological operations.
From Nov 2008 onwards, India’s successive regimes have parroted the theme of terrorism, blamed Pakistan that it is the epicenter of terrorism, and falsely projected India is the victim.
India has stalled talks with Pakistan because of this fraudulent claim. The world has begun to know that India is the chief instigator and abettor of cross-border terrorism and uses armed proxies to achieve its sinister objectives.

India has pushed the Kashmir issue in the background, which is the bone of contention between the two arch-rivals on the plea of terrorism.
There can be no peace with India without the resolution of the Kashmir dispute based on the UN resolutions, lying in the pending tray of the UN since 1949. If India is genuinely interested in peace, it has to first restore the special status of the disputed IOK which was callously snatched in Aug 2019. It must give up its expansionist and hegemonic designs and opt for peace and friendship for the overall development of South Asia

India trying to wear a mask of sympathy with Pakistan | VT Foreign Policy

www.veteranstoday.com

Patwari would even blame their births on PTI