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India to start receiving third S-400 air defence missile squadron from Jan-Feb next year from Russia

and you are assuming that the Indians won't be
Only real life scenarios can prove this claim.
I'm not sure about the validity of these claims. I guess some are shot down, many get through?


The Ukrainians say they shot most down, the Russians the opposite.
Both claims have some truth. Ukrainians managed to shoot down some latest Russian missiles with old S300 variant and Russians also managed to destroy their intented target and some Ukrainian S300 with saturated missile attack.

Ultimately S400 or S300 aren't bad. They are not the full proof solution. And they need well trained personnel to be effective.
 
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I know about it .. HQ-9 (copy of Russian S-300) and HQ-16 defense systems.

Since we agreed that missile defense systems are not foolproof even people here question on S400..

I was referring to missile defense layers, I know that Pakistan mostly works on ballistic and cruise missiles but never heard about working on defense missile systems.

Are these small units enough to protect the Pakistan sky and cities?

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I am not saying that as of now India has done a better job and our sky is protected but they are working, deploying, and building new systems. offensive and defensive strategies are equally important during the war. If you have a better defense then you definitely will have an edge against your enemy during the war and might you will get the chance to hit back hard.

It's a major upgrade from the S-300 and highly advanced......
There are defence layers I haven't even mentioned the SPADA 2000 and others.
What do you mean 'small units'?
As for missile defence there isn't much aside what I've mentioned.
 
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No missile system is invincible. There are bound to be methods and counter measures to defeat any missile system.
S-400 is not the only system that can meet all AD requirements of any Air Force. Multiple systems with overlapping ranges and other measures would be required to defend any air space.

No one can write off S400 because of its usage and performance in current Ukraine conflict. A willy adversary can find ways to penetrate or destroy any weapon system. US and the western world have taken months to study and supply some fine weapon systems to Ukraine. Would that be happening in all theatres of war? How many countries have HIMARS? Or similar systems.

Remember one F117 was shot down in Serbia conflict. The finest aircraft in that era met its end at the hands of a supposedly outdated AD system. Did F117 loose its sheen that day and become a lemon? Who else was able to replicate that?

S400 is a highly capable system and when used in conjunction with other supporting elements, would be a cause of worry for any adversary.
 
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oye, don't try to hide the incapability. I will say right as right and wrong as wrong! This question should be raised in National Assembly why the radars were not active?

If you have any answer then quote me or else don't waste my time with your low IQ posts.
Firstly the radars were active. The damn missile was tracked from launch. Secondly why wasn't it intercepted? The missile travelled through the flight path of multiple civilian air liners. Do you really want Pakistan to be responsible for downing a civilian air liner? Besides, we have their missile. We know its technical parameters, and they apologised once they realised, the army readied its Baburs.


Oh and for your HIMARS post, we have the Fatah 1 GMLRS.
 
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They were operational for a big part of the war, until nearly all of the UKR run ways have been taken down by the Russians. Other than that, its a drone. Its intended to be expendable. You think those BUK M3, TOR, and all those troops and tanks were expendable? Don't think so
And how many Buks or S300s did TB2s destroy?

they are still working, they have destroyed most of the Russian groundforces and airdefence systems. If Russian would have destroyed that much show us pictures... 😆
Lol, most of these bayraktars are lying in rubble after being shot down by Buks, tors, S300s and pantsirs
 
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S-400 Triumf: How This Missile Could Transform the Aerial Battlespace

The year is 2022. A posse of F-16 jet fighters takes off from the main Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base in Sargodha. Approximately 300 km east, at the Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Adampur, Punjab, an S-400 Triumf air defence system picks up these aircraft almost instantly. The radar lock unnerves the F-16 pilots and they peel further west – away from the battery’s radar range.

The F-16s fly towards Balochistan – the furthest they can get away from the Indian border. But here they are tracked by another S-400 battery stationed near the Jodhpur air force base 527 km away.

This isn’t war – the S-400 systems are just routinely scanning the airspace around them in a 360 degree sweep. But the PAF pilots are on the verge of panic. Between the overlapping coverage by India’s multiple S-400 battalions stationed along the border, PAF aircraft can run but not hide. This is the fishbowl effect – the feeling of being observed from all sides

The most devastating impact of India acquiring the S-400 will be on the Pakistani military’s psyche. With its 600 km tracking range – and a 400 km kill range – the air defence system will increase the vulnerability of all Pakistani air assets, especially fighter aircraft, missiles and drones, by several orders of magnitude. According to an article in US Air Force’s ‘Journal for Indo-Pacific Command’, the S-400 has “surfaced as an anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) asset designed to protect military, political, and economic assets from aerial attacks”.

Due to their vast range, just three S-400 battalions located on the border will cover all of Pakistan, except the western extremity of its restive Balochistan province. The arrival of the S-400 will squeeze the operational capabilities of the PAF’s offensive as well as defensive assets.

Due to their vast range, just three S-400 battalions located on the border will cover all of Pakistan, except the western extremity of its restive Balochistan province. The arrival of the S-400 will squeeze the operational capabilities of the PAF’s offensive as well as defensive assets.

Because of its blistering speed of 17,000 kph, an S-400 missile fired from Adampur will take just 65 seconds to hit an F-16 flying over Sargodha. Ejection – rather than evasive action – would be the sensible option against a missile coming at you at that speed. (This is assuming the IAF has opted for the fastest missile type and that Russia has decided to sell it.)

The S-400’s deployment will widen the window of vulnerability of Pakistan’s air force, army and strategic missile forces in a variety of ways:

*First up, PAF jets will be forced to operate hundreds of kilometres west of the Indian border and will have to fly in a narrow strip of airspace along the borders of Iran and Afghanistan.

*Secondly, they will not be able to come to the defence of their armour and troop concentrations which would be taking a pounding from Indian artillery and the IAF.

*The system can even function as a ballistic missile killer until India’s indigenous ballistic missile defence system comes online in the years ahead

It can engage up to 36 targets simultaneously within a range of 400 km, ensuring that all Pakistani air bases come under its range. Chinese air assets in Tibet will also come within striking distance. The S-400’s offensive-defence capability means IAF aircraft won’t have to undertake overly risky strike missions into enemy airspace until it is sanitised.

Counter measures
Of the five systems ordered, India could deploy three on the Pakistan border and two along the Himalayas to counter China. However, it is Pakistan that will suffer the most as its entire territory will be swept by the S-400’s claimed jamming-resistant radar. Since the PAF’s offensive and defensive assets are thin, Pakistan could try and overwhelm Indian air defence systems by launching a large number of missiles of which it has plenty. However, this could be suicidal as it will invite a massive retaliation from India’s strategic command.

The entry of the S-400 will force Pakistan to spend heavily on more numbers of aircraft and missiles – including prohibitively expensive hypersonic ones – needed to neutralise the huge Indian advantage. Given the Pakistani military’s obsessive desire to achieve parity with India, it may go for the HQ-15 – a Chinese knockoff of the older Russian S-300 system. In October 2021, Pakistan commissioned the HQ-9 with an engagement range of 100 km.

With the Pakistani economy not exactly in the pink of health, the additional spending will come at the expense of economic growth needed to employ, feed and house its growing population.
If s400 were as magical as this Bollywood piece cliams

Ukraine would not be able to hit Russian bases
Even some 100s of km. Inside mainland Russia using old converted Soviet era drones just a week back
Tb2 and himars regularly raid russian forces
 
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Firstly the radars were active. The damn missile was tracked from launch. Secondly why wasn't it intercepted? The missile travelled through the flight path of multiple civilian air liners. Do you really want Pakistan to be responsible for downing a civilian air liner? Besides, we have their missile. We know its technical parameters, and they apologised once they realised, the army readied its Baburs.


Oh and for your HIMARS post, we have the Fatah 1 GMLRS.

I spoke about Balakot why were the tracking radars off on Pakistani side?
 
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I spoke about Balakot why were the tracking radars off on Pakistani side?
What? They weren't. They were all active. PAF air assets were sent to intercept the IAF that day. Jf17 and F16 even got radar lock on them, but the IAF quickly turned away and went across the border.
 
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What? They weren't. They were all active. PAF air assets were sent to intercept the IAF that day. Jf17 and F16 even got radar lock on them, but the IAF quickly turned away and went across the border.

If they were being tracked then why SAMs were not fired, it would have saved time.


Pakistan had Spada2000, HQ16, HQ2B
 
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If they were being tracked then why SAMs were not fired, it would have saved time.


Pakistan had Spada2000, HQ16, HQ2B
Spada 2000 and HQ2B are operated by Pakistan airforce, not army. HQ2B in very limited service at that point.

HQ16 could have been used as it was operational, but ultimately it comes down to what is easier/faster? Is it better for them to send CAPs which were already airborne or wait for the jets to be in the engagement range of the HQ16. Bearing in mind the HQ16 (LY80AE) has a range of 42km. The weaponry IAF employed was the spice2000 and the crystal maze SOW. Crystal maze has a range of >78km.
 
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Pakistan can make these S-400s sitting ducks.

Pakistan should try to get ToT of the Hwasong 8 from North Korea. If Pakistan can get the Hwasong 8 from North Korea we can destroy the S-400 batteries given we can locate them at their bases.
 
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