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India to give up Chumar post for Chinese withdrawal?

Windjammer

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India to give up Chumar post for Chinese withdrawal? - The Times of India


NEW DELHI: Although the government maintained on Monday that no concessions were offered to the Chinese to end the face off in east Ladakh, India forces appear to have agreed to the removal of bunkers built by the army in Chumar close to the line of actual control (LAC) to facilitate an agreement.

Sources in the security establishment familiar with the negotiations and the local topography told TOI that the 21-day confrontation on Ladakh's desolate Depsang plains ended only after the Indian Army agreed to demolish bunkers it had built in the region of Chumar near the LAC.

The bunkers in question are close to what India considers its current border and are part of the proactive measures objected to by the Chinese. It's said that only after New Delhi agreed to concede the Chinese demand to pull down these "permanent" structures, that allow Indian troops to keep an eye on the Karakoram highway, did the PLA agree to pull back and restore pre-April 15 status.

It has been claimed that India has also adopted "intrusive" tactics to counter aggressive Chinese patrolling and temporarily rolling back some measures is not a large sacrifice. It was also claimed that these bunkers were made only as "retaliation" to the Chinese intrusion. The vacation of the strategically located bunkers or "observation posts" -- that keep an eye on troop movements on the Chinese side - could end India's drill of daily border patrols to the "disputed" area, highly-placed sources said.

Indian troops were patrolling the motorable stretch from the regular Chumar post to the bunkers and manning them through the day. The Chinese troops, which surprised India by setting up a tented post some 19 kms into what India perceives as its side of the LAC, first flagged concerns over the bunkers in Chumar at the second flag meeting on April 21. Since then, this strategic observation post had emerged as a bone of contention.

China, already miffed with India's re-activation of advanced landing grounds at Daulat Beg Oldie, Fukche and Nyoma and construction of other infrastructure along the LAC over the last four-five years, was uncomfortable with Indians being able to peep at the movement on the highway. The Chinese, in fact, had frequently tried to "immobilize'' the surveillance cameras positioned at the Chumar post by cutting wires.

According to sources in the security establishment, at the April 21 flag meeting, the Chinese demanded the observation post at Chumar - which India insisted was only a resting place for patrolling troops as icy winds are a regular phenomenon - be immediately dismantled.

Even at the time, the Army did not completely rule this out as a measure that could lead to the Chinese troops withdrawing from Raki Nala. But the Chinese refusal to make a firm commitment about pulling their tents in return for demolition of the bunkers was not acceptable to the Indian side.

At the third flag meeting too, the same issue was raised, and the Chinese continued to be evasive. They said only after Indian troops had dismantled the border fortifications in Chumar and pulled back their own troops from the faceoff point at Raki Nala, would it "mull the next step".

As the standoff entered its twentieth day on Saturday, the Chinese reiterated the demand for demolition of the Indian Army bunkers at a meeting between the local commanders. It was only after this was approved by the highest level on Sunday morning, with the Chinese agreeing to a reciprocal pull back, the Army sealed the "deal" - something which South Block mandarins stoutly denied.
 
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lo bhai...new beginning for internet warriors for war mongering.....another hot day for hot arguments.
well now an indian newspaper is admitting indian government and army's flaw...what should I suppose to say?:rofl: @Windjammer?
 
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lo bhai...new beginning for internet warriors for war mongering.....another hot day for hot arguments.
well now an indian newspaper is admitting indian government and army's flaw...what should I suppose to say?:rofl: @Windjammer?
@Slav Defence, well the NDTV was giving breaking news..."China blinks first".....and the Indian members were more inclined to attack the OPs rather than reading between the headlines.....so i guess they all be very quite today. !!
 
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@Slav Defence, well the NDTV was giving breaking news..."China blinks first".....and the Indian members were more inclined to attack the OPs rather than reading between the headlines.....so i guess they all be very quite today. !!

bhai samjha ker....:D
khissiyanay billay khamaba nochein!
yeah i have seen them....calling op with insulting names...which was low class act.
they accept it or not...china was dominant at that time...
 
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@Windjammer

Buddy if u clearly see the title has a ? (Question mark) which means the author of the article is asking if India has done so ?

So the article is just a speculation not a fact. I hope u got the point.
 
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A more balance view point.

The end of a 20-day face-off with China in Ladakh came after intense diplomatic pressure, including the threat that India was willing to scale down its relations with its neighbour if the latter did not withdraw a platoon camped on Indian territory since April 15.

The Chinese were reportedly told that New Delhi might cancel External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid's visit to Beijing beginning May 9, which would cast a shadow on the visit of Chinese Premier Le Keqiang to New Delhi on May 20.

The two countries do trade of at least $90-100 billion (Rs. 5,41,300 crore) a year.

Sources said what might have also worked is an assurance that India would suspend the construction of new bunkers in the Chumar sector of south-east Ladakh, about 175-odd km from Raki Nalla, where the Chinese troops had camped.


India began constructing seven bunkers in Chumar, which is also considered disputed territory, in April this year. The Chinese reportedly objected as a 2005 border protocol agreement between the two sides allow neither to construct any permanent structure. India has already reportedly constructed one bunker.

The Chinese, sources said, had also objected to aggressive patrolling by the Indian Army which is believed to have cut off the access routes of the Chinese patrols in this sector.

Government sources have insisted that India struck no deal with and gave no concession to Beijing to resolve the border crisis.

"The assurance of suspending, for the time being, construction in Chumar doesn't qualify as a concession to China since both countries have agreed not to construct in the disputed areas," a senior Ministry of Defence official told NDTV.

New Delhi is now keen to renegotiate the 2005 agreement to allow India some room to develop infrastructure.

Yesterday's breakthrough came after the fourth flag meeting between the two countries; they agreed to go back to their positions before April 15. For India, this will mean moving from its temporary camp put up just 500 metres away from where Chinese troops were stationed.

The Chinese have withdrawn from Raki Nalla, 30 km south of Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), an advanced landing ground built by India in north Ladakh. DBO overlooks the Karakoram Pass and the crucial Karakoram Highway that connects China and Pakistan.

India-China pullback: what happened behind the scenes | NDTV.com
 
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@Windjammer

Buddy if u clearly see the title has a ? (Question mark) which means the author of the article is asking if India has done so ?

So the article is just a speculation not a fact. I hope u got the point.

Understand what you are saying, but isn't it obvious that after sitting tight for three weeks and several flag meetings later why would Chinese suddenly pack up and leave....other sources have pointed to the same.

India reaches compromise with China
 
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Understand what you are saying, but isn't it obvious that after sitting tight for three weeks and several flag meetings later why would Chinese suddenly pack up and leave....other sources have pointed to the same.

India reaches compromise with China

Since the timing of the incursion is ill planned, the visit of Chinese PM which also include trade deal worth Billions are at stake here.

Compromise in the sense, Chinese will with draw their tents and India will go back to their positions.
 
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How India played hardball with China

NEW DELHI: After initial diffidence and a sense of confusion, India had to play diplomatic hardball to get China to withdraw its troops from Depsang Bulge in eastern Ladakh, which officials claimed was secured without giving any concessions to China, even though New Delhi has agreed to bring down a structure that was erected as "retaliation" to the Chinese incursion.

After the withdrawal, Indian and Chinese officials are expected to meet in the next few days under the rubric of the working mechanism to work out a new set of operating procedures along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC). "We will discuss peace and tranquillity on the LAC," said officials.

As flag meetings failed to resolve the face-off which happened after Chinese troops pitched tents in the area, the government decided to abandon a soft approach to China, said officials. In Beijing, Indian ambassador S Jaishankar impressed on the Chinese that not only was India ready to cancel the visit of foreign minister Salman Khurshid to Beijing, it was also willing to cancel the visit of the Chinese premier Li Keqiang to New Delhi on May 20.

The political initiative to take a harder stand was led by defence minister AK Antony, while foreign secretary Ranjan Mathai worked with the army chief to ensure that the Chinese understood that India was ready to escalate matters, if necsaary. In the cabinet meetings, it was Antony's voice that carried the government opinion. Both PM and foreign minister Salman Khurshid had taken a much softer approach.

India insisted Beijing withdraw because they had violated a 2005 protocol. Within the government there were those who were worried about an escalation. However, India apparently had a precedent - in 2002, the NDA government had tackled a similar situation at Barahauti in the middle sector with a tough stand.

India, however, may be ready to agree to a Chinese demand to negotiate a new mechanism on border management. This was a demand by the PLA in response to India's border build-up. India was reluctant earlier but as a result of the standoff, negotiations on this may start, said sources. However, Antony is believed to be reluctant to go down that path.

While the high level visits are still on, the government has now lost the enthusiasm for the Chinese premier's visit. It will go through, and it is important because this is the first overseas visit of the new premier. But with the Depsang incident fresh in their minds, the Indian government will find it difficult to go the extra mile for this relationship just now.

The MEA spokesperson said on Monday that India and China have agreed to restore status quo ante along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the Western Sector of the India-China boundary as it existed prior to 15 April, 2013. While the Chinese side took down their tents, the Indians retreated from the face-off position. In addition, India agreed to bring down a structure that was built on April 20 as part of the trade-off with the Chinese troops.

"There was no deal," said sources. "There is nothing that will stop our efforts to improve infrastructure on the border." The government is taking credit for getting the Chinese to withdraw within three weeks while it took about seven years to get them out during the Wangdung crisis at Sumdurong Chu in Arunachal Pradesh.

Army sources said, it would have to "open" more access routes to the table-top plateau at Depsang Bulge, which became the face-off site between rival troops at an altitude of 16,300-feet.

After the Chinese intrusion 19-km deep into Indian territory on April 15, ITBP and Army troops had to stop their patrolling of the sector on the two available routes going through the Depsang plains and leading up to the strategically-located Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO) and Karakoram Pass to the north.

The Chinese move, as earlier reported by TOI, threatened to cut off access to almost 750 sq km area in northern Ladakh since the Depsang plains are the only flat open land needed for accessibility to the region. ``We will have to slowly open more access routes to the region as well as step up coordinated patrolling with ITBP. If one access route gets blocked, then the others can be used," said an officer.

The military also thinks there will also be the need to build more forward observation posts and other infrastructure in the region, both for surveillance as well as sustaining long-range patrols. China, which itself has bolstered its military infrastructure along the LAC in a major way for well over two decades now, will obviously not be happy with it.

India's re-activation of the DBO, Fukche and Nyoma advanced landing grounds and construction of some posts along the Line of Actual Control as well as troop reinforcements in Ladakh over the last five to six years has proved to be a major irritant for China.

How India played hardball with China - The Times of India
 
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Since the timing of the incursion is ill planned, the visit of Chinese PM which also include trade deal worth Billions are at stake here.

Compromise in the sense, Chinese will with draw their tents and India will go back to their positions.

You mean one night they forgot about the visit and just decided to put up some tents.....come on mate you can do better than that......but if that's what you want to believe then watch this space.
 
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I don't know who is dumb here.... those who think that India will give up their strategic posts and bunkers for some tents? makes no logic.....
 
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India to give up Chumar post for Chinese withdrawal? - The Times of India


NEW DELHI: Although the government maintained on Monday that no concessions were offered to the Chinese to end the face off in east Ladakh, India forces appear to have agreed to the removal of bunkers built by the army in Chumar close to the line of actual control (LAC) to facilitate an agreement.

Sources in the security establishment familiar with the negotiations and the local topography told TOI that the 21-day confrontation on Ladakh's desolate Depsang plains ended only after the Indian Army agreed to demolish bunkers it had built in the region of Chumar near the LAC.

The bunkers in question are close to what India considers its current border and are part of the proactive measures objected to by the Chinese. It's said that only after New Delhi agreed to concede the Chinese demand to pull down these "permanent" structures, that allow Indian troops to keep an eye on the Karakoram highway, did the PLA agree to pull back and restore pre-April 15 status.

It has been claimed that India has also adopted "intrusive" tactics to counter aggressive Chinese patrolling and temporarily rolling back some measures is not a large sacrifice. It was also claimed that these bunkers were made only as "retaliation" to the Chinese intrusion. The vacation of the strategically located bunkers or "observation posts" -- that keep an eye on troop movements on the Chinese side - could end India's drill of daily border patrols to the "disputed" area, highly-placed sources said.

Indian troops were patrolling the motorable stretch from the regular Chumar post to the bunkers and manning them through the day. The Chinese troops, which surprised India by setting up a tented post some 19 kms into what India perceives as its side of the LAC, first flagged concerns over the bunkers in Chumar at the second flag meeting on April 21. Since then, this strategic observation post had emerged as a bone of contention.

China, already miffed with India's re-activation of advanced landing grounds at Daulat Beg Oldie, Fukche and Nyoma and construction of other infrastructure along the LAC over the last four-five years, was uncomfortable with Indians being able to peep at the movement on the highway. The Chinese, in fact, had frequently tried to "immobilize'' the surveillance cameras positioned at the Chumar post by cutting wires.

According to sources in the security establishment, at the April 21 flag meeting, the Chinese demanded the observation post at Chumar - which India insisted was only a resting place for patrolling troops as icy winds are a regular phenomenon - be immediately dismantled.

Even at the time, the Army did not completely rule this out as a measure that could lead to the Chinese troops withdrawing from Raki Nala. But the Chinese refusal to make a firm commitment about pulling their tents in return for demolition of the bunkers was not acceptable to the Indian side.

At the third flag meeting too, the same issue was raised, and the Chinese continued to be evasive. They said only after Indian troops had dismantled the border fortifications in Chumar and pulled back their own troops from the faceoff point at Raki Nala, would it "mull the next step".

As the standoff entered its twentieth day on Saturday, the Chinese reiterated the demand for demolition of the Indian Army bunkers at a meeting between the local commanders. It was only after this was approved by the highest level on Sunday morning, with the Chinese agreeing to a reciprocal pull back, the Army sealed the "deal" - something which South Block mandarins stoutly denied.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...se-army-presence-along-lac-2.html#post4253744

I knew wind likes and choose articles which satisfies his ego.... so he ignores other sources and article... which hurt him....
 
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Silly thread. India hasn't 'given up' chunar, all it has said is that it will remove fortifications (if that is the case).
 
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