India to get Rafale fighter jets on IAF-approved configuration, Manohar Parrikar says

[Zarvan]

A negotiating team has been constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement of 36 Rafale jet planes and recommend the draft agreement.
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NEW DELHI: The 36 Rafale combat planes and associated systems and weapons would be delivered in the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France, defence minister Manohar Parrikar said on Tuesday.

As per the India-France joint statement issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to France earlier this year, the Indian government conveyed to France that in view of the critical operational necessity for multirole combat aircraft for IAF, it would like to acquire 36 Rafale jets in fly-away condition as quickly as possible.

READ ALSO: How PM Modi reworked Rafale deal, and why it's a winner

The two leaders agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation, manufacturer of the combat plane, as part of a separate process underway and the delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF, he said in a written reply in Rajya Sabha.

'Rafales to be inducted into IAF in two years'

A negotiating team has been constituted to negotiate the terms and conditions of the procurement of 36 Rafale jet planes and recommend the draft agreement.

The meetings of the Indian negotiating team with the French side have commenced, Parrikar said.

READ ALSO: Will move court if govt goes ahead with Rafale deal, Swamy says

India to get Rafale fighter jets on IAF-approved configuration, Manohar Parrikar says - The Times of India

 

[airmarshal]

Of course! No brainer. Did he need to say this?

 

[Dr Gupta]

As tested? but the ones we tested did not have AESA I am confused! are we getting AESA or not??

 

[acid rain]

As tested? but the ones we tested did not have AESA I am confused! are we getting AESA or not??

No aesa I guess. .no f4 version. It will go into a vicious cycle of retesting if they change the configuration..

Sometimes I wonder what the hell wrong with the IAF. .

Of course! No brainer. Did he need to say this?

He needed to confirm..because dassault offered the latest version.

 

[$@rJen]

He needed to confirm..because dassault offered the latest version.

And the Latest version is not having AESA???!!!! or IAF is buying without AESA???? if no aesa just drop the parchase

 

[acid rain]

And the Latest version is not having AESA???!!!! or IAF is buying without AESA???? if no aesa just drop the parchase

The model that IAF tested didn't have aesa radars...In I not wrong.

 

[Dash]

No aesa I guess. .no f4 version. It will go into a vicious cycle of retesting if they change the configuration..

Sometimes I wonder what the hell wrong with the IAF. .



He needed to confirm..because dassault offered the latest version.

The RFP clearly mentioned AESA and some exceptions were made by IAF to the manufacturer apart from American ones. If RFP had AESA then it will come with AESA. the right question is whether the contract negotiation committee has taken that arbitrary cost into account. Which no one knows.

 

[Abingdonboy]

As tested? but the ones we tested did not have AESA I am confused! are we getting AESA or not??

And the Latest version is not having AESA???!!!! or IAF is buying without AESA???? if no aesa just drop the parchase

AESA is assured- this was one of the main criteria of the MMRCA program, all entrants had to have an AESA radar to offer.

have no doubt the Rafales the IAF inducts will have AESA on board (not to mention a HMDS and the Litening IV in all likelihood in place of the Damocles LDP)

No aesa I guess. .no f4 version. .

The latest standard if the F3.3 as far as I am aware, the F4 is still some time out (2020 or later IIRC) and when it is available I'm sure the IAF will modify their Rafales accordingly.

The standard the IAF tested with AESA and with IAF-specific modifications (Indian IFF, HMDS, Litening LDP etc etc) will be absolutely cutting edge have no doubt. Many of the most recent updates have been aimed purely at very specific requirements of the French forces and would be of little good to the IAF anyway.

 

[acid rain]

The RFP clearly mentioned AESA and some exceptions were made by IAF to the manufacturer apart from American ones. If RFP had AESA then it will come with AESA. the right question is whether the contract negotiation committee has taken that arbitrary cost into account. Which no one knows.

What parrikar mentions is the config will be the same as tested...aesa wasn't provided for testing to IAF. .There is a difference here between rfp and the 36 jets to be bought by govt to govt method..and the difference is that rfp had multiple options including future developed aesa and armaments and the 36 jet deal is for the model that was tested.

AESA is assured- this was one of the main criteria of the MMRCA program, all entrants had to have an AESA radar to offer.

have no doubt the Rafales the IAF inducts will have AESA on board (not to mention a HMDS and the Litening IV in all likelihood in place of the Damocles LDP)


The latest standard if the F3.3 as far as I am aware, the F4 is still some time out (2020 or later IIRC) and when it is available I'm sure the IAF will modify their Rafales accordingly.

The standard the IAF tested with AESA and with IAF-specific modifications (Indian IFF, HMDS, Litening LDP etc etc) will be absolutely cutting edge have no doubt. Many of the most recent updates have been aimed purely at very specific requirements of the French forces and would be of little good to the IAF anyway.

Wasn't aesa incorporated way after IAF tested rafale?

 

[Fandingo]

What parrikar mentions is the config will be the same as tested...aesa wasn't provided for testing to IAF. .There is a difference here between rfp and the 36 jets to be bought by govt to govt method..and the difference is that rfp had multiple options including future developed aesa and armaments and the 36 jet deal is for the model that was tested.



Wasn't aesa incorporated easy after IAF tested rafale?

Without AESA it is moot. IAF testes PESA and was given assurance for AESA. if IAF will buy it is AESA only. The fighter jets should be bought soon as MOD is serious about it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Wasn't aesa incorporated way after IAF tested rafale?

AESA was adopted as a standard production feature after the IAF tested the Rafale, yes. But this is irrelevant, the IAF evaluated all contenders based on the understanding they would have an AESA radar for when they entered the IAF and the manufacturers had to prove they had a AESA radar either in operation or in the advanced stages of development.

As such, whilst the FrAF Rafales the IAF test flew in India and France did not have AESA radars fitted, Dassualt/Thales would have provided the IAF with all the relevant data of their AESA radar that would be fitted on the Rafale the IAF would induct.

Without the promise of an AESA radar the Rafale simply wouldn't have been allowed to take part in the MMRCA competition.

 

[Dash]

What parrikar mentions is the config will be the same as tested...aesa wasn't provided for testing to IAF. .There is a difference here between rfp and the 36 jets to be bought by govt to govt method..and the difference is that rfp had multiple options including future developed aesa and armaments and the 36 jet deal is for the model that was tested.



Wasn't aesa incorporated way after IAF tested rafale?

Valid question bro. Will come back to you in some time.

 

[surya kiran]

@Abingdonboy this current proposal is outside the scope of the MMRCA competition. This is a G2G sale. So bringing in what was committed during the MMRCA is irrelevant. Having said that, without AESA this makes no sense.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What parrikar mentions is the config will be the same as tested...aesa wasn't provided for testing to IAF. .There is a difference here between rfp and the 36 jets to be bought by govt to govt method..and the difference is that rfp had multiple options including future developed aesa and armaments and the 36 jet deal is for the model that was tested.

We all know the DM's words are often frustratingly ambiguous and I'm almost certain what he meant is the IAF will get the Rafales they evaluated (ie with AESA and all the bells and whistles the IAF specifics) for which the tests played only a small part of the selection process.

@Abingdonboy this current proposal is outside the scope of the MMRCA competition. This is a G2G sale. So bringing in what was committed during the MMRCA is irrelevant. Having said that, without AESA this makes no sense.

True, BUT it is clear the MMRCA selection criteria and analysis is being used as the basis for the current govt-govt Rafale deal otherwise why would the DM need to make such comments? If this was an entirely new set of negotiations with zero basis in the MMRCA then why refer back to the Rafales the IAF had tested under the MMRCA process?

Why pursue the Rafale at all if you weren't continuing the findings of the MMRCA (ie the Rafale meets the IAF's technical criteria) simply through different means (govt-govt talks)?

There is no way the MoD/GoI have simply abandoned the testing and evaluation reports of the MMRCA contest, for one, the delays incurred to come up with an entirely new set of criteria in which to pick a configuration would be enormous.

The Rafale the IAF evaluated (yes they didn't get a chance to field test it because it wasn't available at the time), that Dassualt provided cost estimates and life cycle maintenance quotes for was a Rafale WITH AESA!

Additionally, AESA is a standard production feature (for which their production line is now tuned for), does anyone really think Dassualt would be proposing or the MoD insisting on downgrading the IAF's fighters from the current production variant? This is simply unimaginable.


Don't fret gents- AESA is a certainty.

 

[acid rain]

We all know the DM's words are often frustratingly ambiguous and I'm almost certain what he meant is the IAF will get the Rafales they evaluated (ie with AESA and all the bells and whistles the IAF specifics) for which the tests played only a small part of the selection process.



True, BUT it is clear the MMRCA selection criteria and analysis is being used as the basis for the current govt-govt Rafale deal otherwise why would the DM need to make such comments? If this was an entirely new set of negotiations with zero basis in the MMRCA then why refer back to the Rafales the IAF had tested under the MMRCA process?

Why pursue the Rafale at all if you weren't continuing the findings of the MMRCA (ie the Rafale meets the IAF's technical criteria) simply through different means (govt-govt talks)?

There is no way the MoD/GoI have simply abandoned the testing and evaluation reports of the MMRCA contest, for one, the delays incurred to come up with an entirely new set of criteria in which to pick a configuration would be enormous.

The Rafale the IAF evaluated (yes they didn't get a chance to field test it because it wasn't available at the time), that Dassualt provided cost estimates and life cycle maintenance quotes for was a Rafale WITH AESA!

Additionally, AESA is a standard production feature (for which their production line is now tuned for), does anyone really think Dassualt would be proposing or the MoD insisting on downgrading the IAF's fighters from the current production variant? This is simply unimaginable.


Don't fret gents- AESA is a certainty.

You are discounting 2 facts here...

IAF hasn't tested an aesa rafale..and the DM cannot place an order for 36 planes which hasn't been tested..If they end up testing an aesa rafale then the testing will take its own sweet time. ..the DM clearly says that the configuration tested is the one on order and not the one in the MMRCA.

2. You are assuming that it would be the one in the MMRCA. .While the whole MMRCA fell off and now it will be the one already tested.