India to deploy Sukhoi-30 jets on Pakistan border

[shehbazi2001]

My friend, Pune is not close to the Pak Border. Plus it seems out of the range of Babur and Ghaznavi. Shaheen-1 may hardly reach it. But as the range increases, the accuracy reduces and one should not expect a IN-equipped ballistic missile going 700-800 km away and still hitting a line-up of fighters.

If ever India deploys Su-30s to forward bases towards Pakistan, it would be tantamount to losing an advantage of Su-30's range because its able to fly from far away bases and still go deep inside Pakistan. Bringing it to forward bases means losing its long-range advantage and exposing them to counter attack.

Su-30's long-range even enables IAF to first fly over Indian-Held Kashmir, then enter Afghanistan and from there come over Pakistan and after attack, go straight back to India. In the case of war, at least a flight of F-16s/F-7PGs should be stationed at Peshawar.

This scenario is realistic because the advantage of arranging waypoints like this would be that aircrafts would not need to make a 180 degree turn over Pakistan, and it is this turn that brings them down.

Building aircraft pins or not depends on national security doctrine......Perhaps in the "Military Technology" I read that Israeli Air Force does not build pins for aircrafts.......they believe in offense and they are confident that no one can attack their bases.........

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Su-30's long-range even enables IAF to first fly over Indian-Held Kashmir, then enter Afghanistan and from there come over Pakistan and after attack, go straight back to India. In the case of war, at least a flight of F-16s/F-7PGs should be stationed at Peshawar.

This scenario is realistic because the advantage of arranging waypoints like this would be that aircrafts would not need to make a 180 degree turn over Pakistan, and it is this turn that brings them down.

Building aircraft pins or not depends on national security doctrine......Perhaps in the "Military Technology" I read that Israeli Air Force does not build pins for aircrafts.......they believe in offense and they are confident that no one can attack their bases.........

Dear Pakistan AF or defence will not be sleeping?
What you have mentioned is very unrealistic.. no way can IAF enter unnoticed in PAK territory, and that through north PAK and Afghanistan.
And as for IDAF base.. hands off worlds' "most advance HAS and PAS in the world"! no way can IDAF leave its jets unprotected front of the Arabs and Iranis..
The Arabs paid the price of not building HAS or PAS in 6 day war.. just that thing changed the whole tide of the war!

 

[shehbazi2001]

You may very well be right and I may be wrong........but please give some facts and figures and mostly importantly the REFERENCE. A research without references is never accepted.

When I told u that IDF/AF did not make HASs, I gave a reference. You should also give one. Perhaps I may learn something and the same is the purpose of the forum. It is also possible that IDF/AF changed its strategy. It was amazing for me too....

and for the Su-30, u should corrobrate ur claim with facts.....U should know about the range of Su-30, u have done hundreds of posts on the forum, u must know that Su-30 Flanker series is the only military aircraft that does NOT carry fuel tanks......because they have enough internal fuel, they dont need external tanks.....;yet they can be refuelled in the air for ultra-long range routes......

and who can stop indian fighters flying over IH Kashmir, would u go over srinagar to shoot it down?.....;and I did not say that it shall go unnoticed.....;but I am sure it can go unnoticed......u must know that kashmir and Afghanistan are both mountainous terrains and even if u install hundreds of radars, u would not get enough coverage........

 

[sohailbutt]

and who can stop indian fighters flying over IH Kashmir, would u go over srinagar to shoot it down?.....;and I did not say that it shall go unnoticed.....;but I am sure it can go unnoticed......u must know that kashmir and Afghanistan are both mountainous terrains and even if u install hundreds of radars, u would not get enough coverage........

Brother, there is no need to install many radars in the mountain's in Kashmir n other Northern Areas, i think our SAAB Erieye's will do the job, n also other AWAC'S that PAF will have in a few years time, so trackin any other Country's fighter would be easy anywhere in Pakistan Airspace. So, in my view by next year when we start inductin AWACS then intruders would not go unnoticed at all.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Murad sahib has served in the Middle East.......he may tell us that whereas the arab air forces were decimated on the ground in 1967, did the IDF/AF had HASs?

Of course the situation in 1973 war was different when he arrived there but still he may know better than us.

By the the way , dont consider HAS as impregnable forts. Half of the HAS of Iraqi AF were destroyed. But something is better than nothing. The chances of survival may increase.

But the question is that what was the thinking behind not building HAS?, if its true as I read it in Military Technology magazine. The consequences are very serious for the arabs.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You may very well be right and I may be wrong........but please give some facts and figures and mostly importantly the REFERENCE. A research without references is never accepted.

When I told u that IDF/AF did not make HASs, I gave a reference. You should also give one. Perhaps I may learn something and the same is the purpose of the forum. It is also possible that IDF/AF changed its strategy. It was amazing for me too....
and for the Su-30, u should corrobrate ur claim with facts.....U should know about the range of Su-30, u have done hundreds of posts on the forum, u must know that Su-30 Flanker series is the only military aircraft that does NOT carry fuel tanks......because they have enough internal fuel, they dont need external tanks.....;yet they can be refuelled in the air for ultra-long range routes......

and who can stop indian fighters flying over IH Kashmir, would u go over srinagar to shoot it down?.....;and I did not say that it shall go unnoticed.....;but I am sure it can go unnoticed......u must know that kashmir and Afghanistan are both mountainous terrains and even if u install hundreds of radars, u would not get enough coverage........

No problem...
here you go..
IDAF Ovada AFB
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You are very write about the MKI range 5,000-8,000 km, but it does not make it capable of flying over PAK air space undetected. I think IAF does have an air base in Uzbekistan, so in war times they have to ask permission from Afghanistan to use its air space and Karzie without hesitation will say "yes master" fell free. so your point is valid about stationing at least a sqd of F-16 in NWFP base.
I am pretty much sure that next year we will have new Block52+ 2-3 AWACS and couple of combat ready JF-17 sqds.. so the threat can be neutralized.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Murad sahib has served in the Middle East.......he may tell us that whereas the arab air forces were decimated on the ground in 1967, did the IDF/AF had HASs?

Of course the situation in 1973 war was different when he arrived there but still he may know better than us.

By the the way , dont consider HAS as impregnable forts. Half of the HAS of Iraqi AF were destroyed. But something is better than nothing. The chances of survival may increase.

But the question is that what was the thinking behind not building HAS?, if its true as I read it in Military Technology magazine. The consequences are very serious for the arabs.

One has to have total air superiority in order to destroyed modern HAS and PAS which i believe most of PAK and IND AFB are equipped with. Most of HAS are designed to withstand a direct hit by a 500lb (226kg) bomb. The Bomber has to get close enough to the base in order to use PGMs and by the time the AC is near the base, it is likely that the plane will be shoot down by air defence or intercepted by a fighter.. it implies to both Pakistan and India.

Moving on the 6 day war..
i think 80% of the Arab planes were destroyed on the ground while the Arabs were ... the Israelis used cannons and rockets only..
In Janes IDAF simulator while playing 6 day war mission, you fly a Mirage IIIJ and land on a Egyptian AFB and destroy the migs lined up on the runway... it was a very nice game, though did not enjoyed the story line..

 

[shehbazi2001]

I finished the Flight Simulation "Israelli Air Force" twice. Once with keyboard and then with a control stick. It was my favorite at that time.

The mission that u stated was perhaps in the Future Missions......in which they say that a new fighter is being developed and its inside an HAS.....and u need to destroy it with ur guns.......so we landed the plane on the runway in front of that shelter.....switched off the safety switch....and fired the guns on that research plane.....

I think anyone fond of military aviation should try this simulation.

and my friend its not clear from these google earth pictures that the structures are HASs.......these can be simple shelters or simple hangors....however we need further research....

 

[shehbazi2001]

To further our research on HAS..........just look at the first picture which is in the best zoom....

Now, each HAS has a taxiway right in front of it...............and in this first satellite picture, we don't see taxiways in front of shelters..............a single taxiway covers all the 3-4 shelters on each side.................therefore it seems that these are not HASs..................or perhaps some satellite camouflage is used.

Recenly, I found a nice book on the google books (books.google.com) a book named "Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces" published by Osprey.........on the page 14, it mentions that each Mirage unit had several HAS and sun-shelters in the alert complex...................well it means that they used some HASs...........but not for all aircraft.....

u just type "Israeli Mirage and Nesher Aces" at books.google.com and u shall get a list of very good books. Then just click on a book and start reading, although it does not allow complete book to read.

 

[ddrbdgzy]

although india has much progress on their military force, however ,if the task is defence ,i have nothing to say,if the task is invasion, i do not think india is cleve and smart, pakistan ia a peaceful force in the world , if india dare to do anything crude, i think she will be condemed by internationl society and pulished by brave pakistan people.

 

[Marshal]

although india has much progress on their military force, however ,if the task is defence ,i have nothing to say,if the task is invasion, i do not think india is cleve and smart, pakistan ia a peaceful force in the world , if india dare to do anything crude, i think she will be condemed by internationl society and pulished by brave pakistan people.

will u stop posting those lethargic and Filmy style craps cuz i belive that nobuddy wants war both ind-pak are n-power countries.... and I doubted any third country would like to get into this war if it ever happend..... Be practical and lets have a constructive talk...the relationship between ind and pak is always going to improve due to many reasons...but there is always going to be a balancing act as far as the military capability has concerned just like sovietes and the americans during the cold war and let us discuss precisely about that..

 

[FaisalAyaz]

May be a simple Practices Match
With MHI .......

 

[ejaz007]

Relocating SU-30's to bases close to Pakistan's border also provides PAF an opportunity to try to take them out on the ground. I know its not 65 or 71 but still PAF can plan and try.

 

[tigergeng]

让印度阿三去死吧 支持巴基斯坦兄弟！！！！!! Pakistan is my brother

 

[Vinod2070]

Relocating SU-30's to bases close to Pakistan's border also provides PAF an opportunity to try to take them out on the ground. I know its not 65 or 71 but still PAF can plan and try.

What was that about 65 or 71?