India To Buy Two More Airborne Warning Systems

[zaxcolix]

......But linking of LCA with AWACS will help in managing the sorties and situation but the idea of LCA remaining passive and using long range detetion capability of AWAC to take out enemies isn't going to work to the full scale considering the LCA's limited endurance and weapons capabilities,though the idea is good.

DRDO's AEW&C is an cost effective platform (costing around 100-150 million $ per aircraft) that can act like an force multiplier for LCA's, Jaguars & Mig 23 (not to mention Mirage, Mig 29 etc.)

Imagine if each such squadrons have their own AEW&C aircraft's how efficient & effective our strike platforms would become.

 

[DARKY]

That's the basic point, but what about the performance? Detection of targets at what ranges? We already know that the field of view of our radar array is lower than PAFs latest Erieye system and more comparable to the older Erieye.

The performance parameters were available for the DRDO EMB-145 AEW&C... It was 300km for a 2m^2 RCS target.
The Field view is only a matter of time... once they validate the software in the air they can bring changes to it making the antenna steer extra few degrees to achieve around about the scan level of SAAB Ere-eye... however that is not as important as the Aircraft still has the blind spot no matter what you do.
We must remember improvements in software is done through the service life more frequently than the main Hardware.

Neither is it plug and play like you believe, but as I said, this is not the important point now, we need numbers, not a new type of AWACS!
So how about inducting reasonable number of AWACS to provide safty for the country and then trying to improve this basic system first, instead of going to a totally new design, platform, that requires bigger powermanagement...,
When the basic need of IAF to provide a good coverage of Indo-Pak / Chinese borders is achieved, they can go on to the next level, maybe for the shorebased AWACS requirement, but the country MUST come first, not the wishes of scientist or companies. Btw, that's the reason why many concepts will never get reality, because not all of them are needed!

There is the need for larger AWACS and It cannot be denied.
It would take time but the parallel development continues... even as we speak... smaller AWACS are good for own defense but to look deeper into enemy land we would require the larger AWACS more so as the STEALTH and VLO aircraft evolve quickly in our neighbourhood.
The S-band would be less capable as compared to larger L-Band antennas(like the one on phalcon).
More so keeping in mind the Cruise missile and BMD the Larger AWACS have a bigger role to play in future... as I said the AEW&C mounted on EMB-145 is a gap filling measure.

Which is not correct, because the bigger version is just a DRDO offer so far and not based on official requirement of IAF:



http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/225670-drdo-develop-indigenous-awacs.html

The bigger version has been there right from the 1st AWACS venture... It has been given the go ahead since its need is being felt by IAF.. soon they would present their requirements by the time the 1st antenna is ready for testing... If they/MOD haven't done already.

 

[sancho]

This is used when enemy is likely to intrude into our air space and our own air defence assets are to be
in alert-stand by. For this AWACS will be flying with 4 Su-30MKIs as escort armed with upto 8 AAMS whileupto 8 Su-30 MKIs remain along as interceptors.In this type,every MKI will be linked with each other along with AWACS and every available ground assets (IAF Radar Assets in normal trainings and IA Air defence corps in special trainings). These group of AWACS along with 10-14 MKIs easily prevents any intrusion to an particular area of the air space (corridor).

That's what I meant, you are confusing escorts with fighters that would be used for interceptions. The only mission the escorts have, is to protect the AWACS aircraft! If a target is detected that would be a threat, the MKIs will engage them of course, but if the target is heading into another direction they won't. Then the closest fighters to the target will be scrambled, which can be linked to AWCAS data as well.

The only fighter in IAF fleet which can be used for this is the MKI.

Currently, because most other fighters don't offer the endurance or even IFR like the Mig 29s so far, but a Rafale can do similar missions with similar endurance as well and would even offer the better capabilities to protect the AWACS, with it's MICA/METEOR combo. But I guess IAF will remain with MKIs in escort roles, while Rafale will be used as prime interceptors in future.

The Field view is only a matter of time... once they validate the software in the air they can bring changes to it making the antenna steer extra few degrees to achieve around about the scan level of SAAB Ere-eye

Exactly and that's why they should focus on inducting this version and improving it! That's why further developments to more advanced T/R modules for example are more important, than developing a 360° rotodome on a 3rd type of platform.

There is the need for larger AWACS and It cannot be denied.

And that need will be filled with A50 Phalcons, that's why we add 2 more to the fleet, but the baseline coverage can only be done with more cost-effective systems in higher numbers. Even MoD has stated that, since procuring the Phalcons in high numbers would be too costly.

 

[flightlieutenantshikari]

That's what I meant, you are confusing escorts with fighters that would be used for interceptions. The only mission the escorts have, is to protect the AWACS aircraft! If a target is detected that would be a threat, the MKIs will engage them of course, but if the target is heading into another direction they won't. Then the closest fighters to the target will be scrambled, which can be linked to AWCAS data as well.



Currently, because most other fighters don't offer the endurance or even IFR like the Mig 29s so far, but a Rafale can do similar missions with similar endurance as well and would even offer the better capabilities to protect the AWACS, with it's MICA/METEOR combo. But I guess IAF will remain with MKIs in escort roles, while Rafale will be used as prime interceptors in future.




Exactly and that's why they should focus on inducting this version and improving it! That's why further developments to more advanced T/R modules for example are more important, than developing a 360° rotodome on a 3rd type of platform.




And that need will be filled with A50 Phalcons, that's why we add 2 more to the fleet, but the baseline coverage can only be done with more cost-effective systems in higher numbers. Even MoD has stated that, since procuring the Phalcons in high numbers would be too costly.

it was mainly my inability to express through words.

by the way,what are you and how old are you my friend?

 

[sancho]

it was mainly my inability to express through words.

by the way,what are you and how old are you my friend?

Just a forumer that is interested in defence, like we all here and sadly in the mid 30s.

 

[DARKY]

Exactly and that's why they should focus on inducting this version and improving it! That's why further developments to more advanced T/R modules for example are more important, than developing a 360° rotodome on a 3rd type of platform.

Software development and a few upgrades in Hardware on small scale can continue through its life.. more advanced TRMMs in L-band are ready there has been a poster also floating around on we have patent rights over it... It contains 8 channels and is perfect to be used on an experimental antenna array.

Its not just about 360degree but a complete change in surveillance frequencies and wavelengths which gives better resolution on smaller targets at longer range yes the power requirements is much Higher.

And that need will be filled with A50 Phalcons, that's why we add 2 more to the fleet, but the baseline coverage can only be done with more cost-effective systems in higher numbers. Even MoD has stated that, since procuring the Phalcons in high numbers would be too costly.

2 phalcons can be as expensive as one locally made phalcon but there also comes the ability to manufacture 4 more at the cost of another 2... Besides Israelis won't have much problem in assisting us with this as we have somewhat basic assembling capabilities improved in the last 5 years.

And I am not sure If the order has been made for Phalcon on Il-76.

 

[sancho]

Its not just about 360degree but a complete change in surveillance frequencies and wavelengths which gives better resolution on smaller targets at longer range yes the power requirements is much Higher.

I know, so exactly as I said, it's not just plug and play from the existing version, but a new development, which takes time to be ready and mature, time that we don't have right now.

2 phalcons can be as expensive as one locally made phalcon but there also comes the ability to manufacture 4 more at the cost of another 2... Besides Israelis won't have much problem in assisting us with this as we have somewhat basic assembling capabilities improved in the last 5 years.

Which doesn't make sense for many reasons. First of all, our radar system must prove to be as capable as the Phalcon system, which alone would be more than surprising. Secondly, we must find a new plattform, develop a new radar array, must integrate them all together and test it and your really think that come cheap? That's exactly the reason why the A50 Phalcon is expensive, not only because it is a capable system, but also because we ordered 2 different things from 2 different partners and expect them to fit all together. Btw, our inability to develop an own AWACS system is another reason why they (Russia and Israel) increased the price after the first 3, because they have something that we need, so no, they won't assists us, because they make a hell lot of money out of this deal.
This again shows, that we have to understand that we already made an achievement and that we have to stick to it, order it in higher numbers and improve it.

And I am not sure If the order has been made for Phalcon on Il-76.

Definitely, because this is a follow order and IAF needs these as soon as possible. It was difficult enough to integrate the system into the A50s and they won't pay again for another integration, especially for such a small order.