India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[uparyupari]

Unless dassault can show how its going to reinvest 30% offset for the 36 Rafale purchase, the deal for 36 Rafale itself might not move forward

People are spinning fantasies under the guise of "news".

 

[Ind4Ever]

I never said that the IN is "not interested" in the Rafale; I stated that it would not be feasible for the IN to operate the Rafale-M in light of the fact that they already have 2 fixed wing combatants (with the the N-LCA yet to be inducted) in their carrier air-wing. So, as I said, the IN will either have to stick to the Mig-29K for the foreseeable future (in which case the Vishal will have to be a hybrid- STOBAR+CATOBAR- design much like the projected Chinese carrier) or the IN will have to undertake an expensive restructuring of the air-wing; it is because of these reasons that I am quite sure that the IN will not end up operating the Rafale of its carriers. The forces have issued many RFIs over the years, but interest in a platform hardly translates to any modicum of surety that the platform will be acquired.

At the moment that IN's budget leaves no space for additional capex, furthermore, the IN has its own share of committed liabilities as well as projected acquisitions (since my job tilts me towards the financial angle I would enjoin you to take a look at their books too) and thus is in no position to strain said budget in the foreseeable future.

Now does this mean that a restructuring of the air-wing is impossible? No, it very well could occur, but the IN is only likely to pay the attendant price if the reward is similarly disproportionately large- a generation jump in the deployed platform.

I respect your opinion. But this is your opinion which may not be true. Because operating an carrier itself a costly affairs. That too we will operate three new carriers . Vikramaditya, Vikrant - which will have mig29 K for time being and LCA in a mix (near future) But it doesn't mean we will keep operating these two aircrafts alone for 3rd A/C . That's 10 years we are talking about . From there the lifetime will he about 30-40( which IN will be willing to operate) And so we won't be using Tejas Mk1 and Mig29K . Instead we will go for Tejas MK2 and Rafale M which is more futuristic for futuristic A/C . Please don't close the loop with funds . As far as IN is concerned it will be our top most priority(from now on) . 6 billion for 36 Rafale(2015/16) and 2.5 billion for 45 Mig29K (2008/9) . 1 Rafale can do/Carry/Perform twice that of Mig 29K.

Mig29K - 4000 T
Rafale M - 8.5T(less than AF variant 9T)

Mig29K - 2000 km
RafaleM - 3500 km

And in operational capabilities Migs are no match for RafaleM . So for our future Aircraft carries at least for the next two we will have RafaleM&Tej2 as our main stay . While 2 A/C with Mig29K&tej 1 combo .

Anyway you are entitled to ur . As you think IN will go for low cost fighter since u r in this field . But I think IN won't think twice to get RafaleM flying from its INS Vishal most prestigious project like Arihant. Firepower will cost more . You get what you pay for. When our economy is set to expand from medium to ultra large for the next 20 years spending 6 billion won't be a big deal for IN . Each year one bill is what we will do . Even with IAF latest order. Which is more than possible in economic front.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Btw this is what Prasun K Sengupta believes about the following

Rafele

• Only 36 will be imported off-the-shelf.
• Balance will be supplied in kits for final assembly in India by a consortium
• Consortium likely to include Reliance & Mahindra
• Production rate of 14 per annum.

LCA MK2

• HAL never had anything to do with R & D on Tejas MRCA. This was, is & will remain ADA’s responsibility.
• Tejas Mk2’s R & D calls for a totally redesigned airframe with some major changes to the wings & air-intakes, it will involve a totally all-new flight-test/certification regime lasting some 2,000 flights.
• If two Tejas Mk2 prototypes are made available by 2018, airworthiness certification can at best be achieved by 2021
• Series-production by HAL can begin in only 2022 at best & first fully-equipped squadron will be commissioned in only 2025.

Super Sukhoi Su30MKI

• Super Sukhoi upgrade cannot proceed at very fast rate per month wise.
• If work starts in 2018, it will take more than 2 decades to complete the fleet-wide upgrade.

FGFA

• FGFA too won’t become available till 2025.

Again these are his views but his opinions seems a bit more realistic in nature. Perhaps we could assume and presume many things but always with a pinch of salt

@Ind4Ever - PSK even named Mahindra and said consortium. That may save BJP led NDA from favouritism to Ambani brothers. I guess when i said reliance or other pvt entities/JV i did nt think about mahindra but Mahindra Aersopace inclusion makes it a good consortium (if true of course).

 

[Ind4Ever]

Make in India: Rafale deal may take off as a joint venture between French and Indian firm - Mannu Pubby

NEW DELHI: The government could ask France's Dassault Aviation to rope in an Indian partner to jointly manufacture the next batch of its Rafale fighters in the country as a condition for landing the remainder of the contract, a move it hopes will fulfil the 'Make in India' dimension that could not be met in its off-the-shelf purchase of 36 planes last week.

Sources familiar with the matter said there were initial discussions in the government on whether to press the French firm to sign up an Indian partner and form a joint venture company in which the local firm could own up to 51 per cent stake and this firm could execute the contract to supply the remaining planes.

The sources insisted that these were initial discussions and there was no certainty a final plan would have these contours.

The Indian partner, according to these discussions, would not be restricted to state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), potentially opening up the field for private players to step into the lucrative defence and aerospace business. A consortium approach, in which a group of Indian private companies come together with HAL to constitute the Indian ownership, was also being spoken of during these discussions, the sources said, adding that the entire plan was nebulous and could undergo major changes.

The matter will be taken forward after Prime Minister Narendra Modi returns from his foreign visit, the sources said. They requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The selection of Dassault to supply 126 Rafale fighters to the Indian Air Force took place during the UPA regime in 2012, but the deal got bogged down by controversies and political indecision. After weeks of uncertainty and amid intense speculation that the BJPled administration could even cancel the contract, Modi, during a visit to France last week, pulled a surprise and signed the purchase of 36 planes off-the-shelf in a direct government-to-government deal, effectively junking the old UPA deal while retaining the vendor.

However, the official announcement last week made no mention about what happens to the remaining planes, prompting speculation in some quarters whether the government could look at fresh competitive bidding.

But sources said the thinking in South Block was that it did not make sense to buy planes from a new vendor as that would saddle the Air Force with a 'mix and match fleet' and having to operate multiple platforms, which was cumbersome and operationally inefficient. Besides a fresh competitive bidding scenario would take years, severely delaying the Indian Air Force's plans to raise its flying strength up to 42 fighter squadrons.

This will effectively rule out the possibility of fresh competitive bidding for the remaining contract, which was also indicated by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday when he said a government-to-government route was better to acquire strategic defence platforms rather than competitive,global bidding.

NUMBER COULD BE REVISITED

Sources said that while the original requirement of 126 fighters for the air force stands, this number could be revisited in the coming days after a reassessment. A higher number of planes could encourage the French side, which could otherwise have reservations on ceding the controlling stake in the Indian joint venture, to set up a production base for the jets. Such an approach could counter criticism that the new Rafale deal does not give much to India in terms of technology transfer and production capabilities. Going about the remainder of the contract though the joint venture route could give the Indian private sector a chance to partake of the government's defence spending and develop manufacturing expertise in an area that has largely been the preserve of staterun firms.

The scrapping of the old Rafale deal, along with the cancellations of similar projects, is an indication that the L1, or lowest bidder based competitive bidding process, which was initiated by the UPA regime is on the way out. Some defence experts say the lengthy process of global competition has led to the stalling of many critical military acquisitions after these got bogged down by accusations of manipulations in testing or discrepancies in commercial proposals.

Officials also say that the view within the government is that the L1 system - choosing the cheapest product after it passes the basic technical evaluation - is not ideally suited to acquiring strategic and cutting edge systems for the military.

While the L1 process was promoted by the UPA government, most military acquisition plans did not see the light of day under the process. These include two attempts to buy light helicopters for the army, a proposal to purchase aerial refuelers for the air force and plans to acquire much-needed artillery systems.

The trend to cancel or do away with projects under competitive bidding continues with the NDA government with the cancelling of the light helicopter contract last year that saw Eurocopter and Kamov making it to the final zone. Most mega projects cleared by the UPA - C-17 transporters, P-8I planes for the Navy, C-130J special operations aircraft - were government-to-government purchases.

The last large tender cleared by competitive bidding was to purchase trainer aircraft from Swiss firm Pilatus in 2012. However, that too ran into trouble as the BJP government reduced the order and gave a large chunk of it to HAL.


Make in India: Rafale deal may take off as a joint venture between French and Indian firm - The Economic Times


@Ind4Ever
See what i discussed with you yesterday the same story is being now said...

And Mr PM and Mr.ManPar thinks we can't crack their codes So as we thought we might increase its number upto 180+ for airforce alone 36+126+64 .....+ 45 Navy

Make in India: Rafale deal may take off as a joint venture between French and Indian firm - Mannu Pubby

NEW DELHI: The government could ask France's Dassault Aviation to rope in an Indian partner to jointly manufacture the next batch of its Rafale fighters in the country as a condition for landing the remainder of the contract, a move it hopes will fulfil the 'Make in India' dimension that could not be met in its off-the-shelf purchase of 36 planes last week.

Sources familiar with the matter said there were initial discussions in the government on whether to press the French firm to sign up an Indian partner and form a joint venture company in which the local firm could own up to 51 per cent stake and this firm could execute the contract to supply the remaining planes.

The sources insisted that these were initial discussions and there was no certainty a final plan would have these contours.

The Indian partner, according to these discussions, would not be restricted to state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), potentially opening up the field for private players to step into the lucrative defence and aerospace business. A consortium approach, in which a group of Indian private companies come together with HAL to constitute the Indian ownership, was also being spoken of during these discussions, the sources said, adding that the entire plan was nebulous and could undergo major changes.

The matter will be taken forward after Prime Minister Narendra Modi returns from his foreign visit, the sources said. They requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The selection of Dassault to supply 126 Rafale fighters to the Indian Air Force took place during the UPA regime in 2012, but the deal got bogged down by controversies and political indecision. After weeks of uncertainty and amid intense speculation that the BJPled administration could even cancel the contract, Modi, during a visit to France last week, pulled a surprise and signed the purchase of 36 planes off-the-shelf in a direct government-to-government deal, effectively junking the old UPA deal while retaining the vendor.

However, the official announcement last week made no mention about what happens to the remaining planes, prompting speculation in some quarters whether the government could look at fresh competitive bidding.

But sources said the thinking in South Block was that it did not make sense to buy planes from a new vendor as that would saddle the Air Force with a 'mix and match fleet' and having to operate multiple platforms, which was cumbersome and operationally inefficient. Besides a fresh competitive bidding scenario would take years, severely delaying the Indian Air Force's plans to raise its flying strength up to 42 fighter squadrons.

This will effectively rule out the possibility of fresh competitive bidding for the remaining contract, which was also indicated by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Monday when he said a government-to-government route was better to acquire strategic defence platforms rather than competitive,global bidding.

NUMBER COULD BE REVISITED

Sources said that while the original requirement of 126 fighters for the air force stands, this number could be revisited in the coming days after a reassessment. A higher number of planes could encourage the French side, which could otherwise have reservations on ceding the controlling stake in the Indian joint venture, to set up a production base for the jets. Such an approach could counter criticism that the new Rafale deal does not give much to India in terms of technology transfer and production capabilities. Going about the remainder of the contract though the joint venture route could give the Indian private sector a chance to partake of the government's defence spending and develop manufacturing expertise in an area that has largely been the preserve of staterun firms.

The scrapping of the old Rafale deal, along with the cancellations of similar projects, is an indication that the L1, or lowest bidder based competitive bidding process, which was initiated by the UPA regime is on the way out. Some defence experts say the lengthy process of global competition has led to the stalling of many critical military acquisitions after these got bogged down by accusations of manipulations in testing or discrepancies in commercial proposals.

Officials also say that the view within the government is that the L1 system - choosing the cheapest product after it passes the basic technical evaluation - is not ideally suited to acquiring strategic and cutting edge systems for the military.

While the L1 process was promoted by the UPA government, most military acquisition plans did not see the light of day under the process. These include two attempts to buy light helicopters for the army, a proposal to purchase aerial refuelers for the air force and plans to acquire much-needed artillery systems.

The trend to cancel or do away with projects under competitive bidding continues with the NDA government with the cancelling of the light helicopter contract last year that saw Eurocopter and Kamov making it to the final zone. Most mega projects cleared by the UPA - C-17 transporters, P-8I planes for the Navy, C-130J special operations aircraft - were government-to-government purchases.

The last large tender cleared by competitive bidding was to purchase trainer aircraft from Swiss firm Pilatus in 2012. However, that too ran into trouble as the BJP government reduced the order and gave a large chunk of it to HAL.


Make in India: Rafale deal may take off as a joint venture between French and Indian firm - The Economic Times


@Ind4Ever
See what i discussed with you yesterday the same story is being now said...

And Mr PM and Mr.ManPar thinks we can't crack their codes So as we thought we might increase its number upto 180+ for airforce alone 36+126+64 .....+ 45 Navy

Btw this is what Prasun K Sengupta believes about the following

Rafele

• Only 36 will be imported off-the-shelf.
• Balance will be supplied in kits for final assembly in India by a consortium
• Consortium likely to include Reliance & Mahindra
• Production rate of 14 per annum.

LCA MK2

• HAL never had anything to do with R & D on Tejas MRCA. This was, is & will remain ADA’s responsibility.
• Tejas Mk2’s R & D calls for a totally redesigned airframe with some major changes to the wings & air-intakes, it will involve a totally all-new flight-test/certification regime lasting some 2,000 flights.
• If two Tejas Mk2 prototypes are made available by 2018, airworthiness certification can at best be achieved by 2021
• Series-production by HAL can begin in only 2022 at best & first fully-equipped squadron will be commissioned in only 2025.

Super Sukhoi Su30MKI

• Super Sukhoi upgrade cannot proceed at very fast rate per month wise.
• If work starts in 2018, it will take more than 2 decades to complete the fleet-wide upgrade.

FGFA

• FGFA too won’t become available till 2025.

Again these are his views but his opinions seems a bit more realistic in nature. Perhaps we could assume and presume many things but always with a pinch of salt

@Ind4Ever - PSK even named Mahindra and said consortium. That may save BJP led NDA from favouritism to Ambani brothers. I guess when i said reliance or other pvt entities/JV i did nt think about mahindra but Mahindra Aersopace inclusion makes it a good consortium (if true of course).

He is right. DM also said the same just yesterday . Tejas MK2 will be inducted from 2021 only . And till the MK1 will be inducted upto 5/6 squadrons in 4/5 years . So Tejas 2 will be a very different fighter nearly matching MMRCA non stealth configuration with single engine. And so it will take time .

And on other aircraft it will take lots of time to start production like AMCA/FGFA/SupeeSukoi . So we must have to go for more Made in India Rafale for two reasons. 1) we don't have other choice as all projects are stuck between 6-9 years . We have to replace Mig21 and 27s in the next 6-9 years . 2) Due to our threat perception eastern front is very alarming . So its not the time to looking for cost effective solutions rather than Capacity and capabilities build up. Rafale will give whole new dimension for the IAF if are to go after Eastern Neighbour . Rafale will be an Alien technology for them who use Russian's and this will us a upper hand to match their capabilities even with less numbers as far as number parity is concerned ....

WE need rafale. And this is very expected move . Good we cancelled MMRCA which went into infinity loop . Now we can move ahead with private players for which french wr batting for a very long time . AWSOME GAME PLAN

Mean while we will add current mk2 break thru in mk1 making it 1.5 version as parikar said. WITH IMPROVEMENTS . So we can induct in large numbers by satisfying IAF requirements ...

Bring it on Biatch

 

[doublemaster]

Not really true.
You see first time when NDA came into power, the former PM Atal Behari Vajpayee (a man whom i respect a lot for his truthful nature not ideological background) wa very keen to be part of history books and he initiated a lot of things (Nuclear Pokhran, Bus travel to Pakistan, Kargil incursion by Mushraff fightback, Naming LCA Tejas, Golden Quadrilateral (a project thot by Rajiv Gandhi but Vajpayee implemented it) and famous snubbing of Modi for Raj Dharma for 2002 riots, Pravasi Bharatiya, etcetc. Even though Bangaru Laxman or George Fernandez or various other netas of BJP (like ertswhile Late Pramod Mahajan) may have indulged in personal gains the fact remains the PM Vajpayee himself remained a man of integrity and never indulged into corruption. On top he was bounded by the coalition politics yet NDA government (now or earlier both)had far less issues as compared to UPA 1 and 2.
Judging Modi's record as CM (as i was posted in Gujarat for a good time so i had read all local gujarati newspapers too), he is free from Corruption as of now. his hold over the key ministries via close friend Arun Jaitley (a lawyer) and DM Parrikar is well known (MP being IIT guy is well respected by Modi for his logical approach), means he keeps corruption taint as far from himself as possible. I do believe not all NDA MPs have an impeccable record so certainly certain cabinet and perhaps NDA MPs will behave stupidly and corrupt themselves. BUT since MOdi wants to have a bigger legacy then Vajpayee i am sure he would acoid a corruption scam regime like UPAs and hence i dont see any kickbacks or Bofors like scandal chance. Simple reason being, he is smart enough to know it is people of India who made him PM and if he is tainted Congress would make sure he does not get a second term. At present unless certain vested interests destroy NDA with communal statements and work, Modi will remain in power surely for 2 terms. The 1st term performance and patience of people will reward him 2nd term but after that is purely based on performance and perhaps lack of a opposition political leader in true sense (Raga will always remain a prince not sure if he will become king just in position or in true sense).
The only difference bcz of which ppl will feel he is corrupted or tainted or like you stating kickbacks is this cabinet would not sit on proposals forever. It will say Yes or No which is good. better have a decisive government over others who may stagnate or choke the whole policy making and paralyse the nation. So far defence sector had benefitted in 11 months. But other areas of economy as well as parliament needs urgent more attention. They have to make it work properly over adjournments and foollish gossiping of namecalling /tainting/dharnas....if we want a proper economic revival decisions have to be made with least possible delay in time and minimum corruption at all levels.

BTW Euro had a resolution under which all parties indulging in lobbying has to declare all such processes and money spent.. i highly doubt Hollande would take any kickbacks or allow his cabinet to be stained by corruption allegations. He has enough problems already domestically so its not gonna happen again.

Thus, even though your fear is correct but i doubt if it may turn out to be true. If in case it does turn out to be true then even God cannot save our country from repeated disasters brought upon by Men who got corrupted by power.

Modi may not use the corruption directly but he may use it indirectly. I can not digest the idea that he is not corrupt, Amount of money used in election itself is the proof that money had definitely come from wrong ways. I do agree that, he may not get the kickbacks from defence deal directly but his problem is he can do anything for his popularity, spend any amount for his popularity. (In this sense MMS was far better, he was having more respectful life, he never cared about his popularity, he never got direct kickbacks like Vajapayee).

Just look at this defence deal, what was the amount committed for 126 rafale? 15B as said by Parikar. (Do we need to consider Rupee was much stronger that time that we would have paid much lesser?), This included manufacturing in India. It is possible that french might have agreed to Manufacturing in India just because they were not able sell, also Sarkozy popularity as good "Sales man" was in trouble. It is also possible that India was more stricter this time so that we are not cheated again (like it had happned during Rajiv era for manufacturing mirrage in India) we will never know what is the truth about why there was delay. Whatever is the case this deal is really hard to achieve and would benefit India in long run. but look at the way current deal is handled. We have not received much discount even after removing manufacture in India, (Also for India it has to pay more because of rupee value now). Also, if this clause was removed there were other fighters was available to sell "ready to fly" basis.

 

[uparyupari]

Modi may not use the corruption directly but he may use it indirectly. I can not digest the idea that he is not corrupt, Amount of money used in election itself is the proof that money had definitely come from wrong ways. I do agree that, he may not get the kickbacks from defence deal directly but his problem is he can do anything for his popularity, spend any amount for his popularity. (In this sense MMS was far better, he was having more respectful life, he never cared about his popularity, he never got direct kickbacks like Vajapayee).

Just look at this defence deal, what was the amount committed for 126 rafale? 15B as said by Parikar. (Do we need to consider Rupee was much stronger that time that we would have paid much lesser?), This included manufacturing in India. It is possible that french might have agreed to Manufacturing in India just because they were not able sell, also Sarkozy popularity as good "Sales man" was in trouble. It is also possible that India was more stricter this time so that we are not cheated again (like it had happned during Rajiv era for manufacturing mirrage in India) we will never know what is the truth about why there was delay. Whatever is the case this deal is really hard to achieve and would benefit India in long run. but look at the way current deal is handled. We have not received much discount even after removing manufacture in India, (Also for India it has to pay more because of rupee value now). Also, if this clause was removed there were other fighters was available to sell "ready to fly" basis.

Why not open a new thread on "Political funding " and discover the truth ?

 

[janon]

You are avoiding the question. HOW many aircraft's has dassult built outside France after 1963 ?

Your statement was not whether any aircrafts have been built - you said they never agreed to do so, and that too in their entire history. In fact they have taken the initiative and offered it themselves.

 

[uparyupari]

Your statement was not whether any aircrafts have been built - you said they never agreed to do so, and that too in their entire history. In fact they have taken the initiative and offered it themselves.

I subsequently said "good catch". The current fact is that in recent history, they have always resisted transferring technology and has made offers to do so at an unreasonable price. Their entire offer of ToT was considered uneconomical since 1963. That shows their intent.

 

[doublemaster]

I subsequently said "good catch". The current fact is that in recent history, they have always resisted transferring technology and has made offers to do so at an unreasonable price. Their entire offer of ToT was considered uneconomical since 1963. That shows their intent.

Still, they committed that to India in 2007 for 15B-126

Why not open a new thread on "Political funding " and discover the truth ?

Sir, I was just replying to the post where corruption and kickbacks were being talked.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Ajai Shukla says

• In addition to Rafale, India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar
• MoD says it could bring in company other than HAL to build fighter in India
• This is the first time an official has revealed the amount Dassault had quoted for 126 Rafales. Media speculation had favoured a figure of $15-18 billion [up to 30]. Parrikar’s revelation of Rs 90,000 crore come to about $15 billion.
• More than once, Parrikar referred to the Rafale’s capability for delivering weapons on deep-lying strategic targets --- his reference to a “strategic purchase” apparently hinting at a nuclear delivery role.
• “Rafale is a strategic purchase and should never have gone through an RfP. These important decisions need to be taken at government-to-government levels. Modiji took the decision; I back it up”, the defence minister said.
• “The penetration capability of this aircraft (Rafale) is 1,000-1,100 kilometres. The other [IAF] aircraft penetration range is 300-450 kilometres. So we get double the penetration,” said Parrikar, again referring to deep strike capability.

Broadsword: In addition to Rafale, India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar

@Ind4Ever As ajai shukla had commented even though it is inline with what we have discussed and i wrote, somehow i am feeling a bit sad. This guy keeps changing position too quickly from F35 to EF. So as i said earlier take every info with a pinch of salt

 

[uparyupari]

Still, they committed that to India in 2007 for 15B-126

Sir, I was just replying to the post where corruption and kickbacks were being talked.

Their commitment is not worth the paper it is written on. Russians found that out the hard way with mistral.

Indians realized it when the cost spiralled out of control.

Political funding need not come from "kickbacks". Political funding is TAX FREE in India. So its smarter to contribute to a party and gain political influence than pay that money as tax to the govt. No need to call me sir.

 

[doublemaster]

Their commitment is not worth the paper it is written on. Russians found that out the hard way with mistral.

Indians realized it when the cost spiralled out of control.

Political funding need not come from "kickbacks". Political funding is TAX FREE in India. So its smarter to contribute to a party and gain political influence than pay that money as tax to the govt. No need to call me sir.

Why their commitment not worth? cost could have been negotiated. If they were not ready for build in India, we should have moved on with others who would do that. Its not a solution spending tons of money every year to outsiders...how long we will be doing that?

BTW, Can trust AAP a little now (Not sure what they will do in future). but rest of them every one knows that corrupt money only fuding all parties. I remember reading about Modi in wikileaks, though he did not collect bribes, money some how reached party as kickback.

 

[uparyupari]

Why their commitment not worth? cost could have been negotiated. If they were not ready for build in India, we should have moved on with others who would do that. Its not a solution spending tons of money every year to outsiders...how long we will be doing that?

'
I just gave the Mistral example to explain the commitment part.

We have moved on. This is what moving on looks like.

BTW, Can trust AAP a little now (Not sure what they will do in future). but rest of them every one knows that corrupt money only fuding all parties. I remember reading about Modi in wikileaks, though he did not collect bribes, money some how reached party as kickback.

Provide link that shows Modi took kickback as party funds. I am sick and tired of such baseless self serving allegations. If you can't at least have the decency to apologize for your comment.

AAP is a joke. But if you want to support it, do so with integrity. Not with cheap AAP tactics like throwing mud and praying that it will stick.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

'
I just gave the Mistral example to explain the commitment part.

We have moved on. This is what moving on looks like.



Provide link that shows Modi took kickback as party funds. I am sick and tired of such baseless self serving allegations. If you can't at least have the decency to apologize for your comment.

AAP is a joke. But if you want to support it, do so with integrity. Not with cheap AAP tactics like throwing mud and praying that it will stick.

Seems like you have confronted another AAPtard with his own political vendetta.
Njoy the conversation. jeez

 

[Ind4Ever]

Ajai Shukla says

• In addition to Rafale, India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar
• MoD says it could bring in company other than HAL to build fighter in India
• This is the first time an official has revealed the amount Dassault had quoted for 126 Rafales. Media speculation had favoured a figure of $15-18 billion [up to 30]. Parrikar’s revelation of Rs 90,000 crore come to about $15 billion.
• More than once, Parrikar referred to the Rafale’s capability for delivering weapons on deep-lying strategic targets --- his reference to a “strategic purchase” apparently hinting at a nuclear delivery role.
• “Rafale is a strategic purchase and should never have gone through an RfP. These important decisions need to be taken at government-to-government levels. Modiji took the decision; I back it up”, the defence minister said.
• “The penetration capability of this aircraft (Rafale) is 1,000-1,100 kilometres. The other [IAF] aircraft penetration range is 300-450 kilometres. So we get double the penetration,” said Parrikar, again referring to deep strike capability.

Broadsword: In addition to Rafale, India could also buy light fighter to replace MiG-21: Parrikar

@Ind4Ever As ajai shukla had commented even though it is inline with what we have discussed and i wrote, somehow i am feeling a bit sad. This guy keeps changing position too quickly from F35 to EF. So as i said earlier take every info with a pinch of salt

He is just confusing and repeating what we already decoded in this thread