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India: the price of choice

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India: the price of choice

By Gwynne Dyer​

CHOICES usually involve a price, but people persist in believing that they can avoid paying it. That's what the Indian government thought when it joined the American alliance system in Asia in 2005, but now the price is clear: China is claiming the whole Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, some 83,000 sq. kms of mountainous territory in the eastern Himalayas containing over a million people.

China has claimed Arunachal Pradesh for a century: during the Sino-Indian border war of 1962 Chinese troops briefly occupied most of the state before withdrawing and inviting India to resume negotiations. However, most Indians thought the dispute had been more or less ended during Chinese premier Wen Jiabao's visit to New Delhi in April 2005, when the two sides agreed on "political parameters" for settling both the Arunachal Pradesh border dispute and another in the western Himalayas.

Indians assumed that the new "political parameters" meant that China would eventually recognise India's control of Arunachal Pradesh. In return, India would accept China's control of the Aksai Chin, a high-altitude desert of some 38,000 sq. kms next to Kashmir. And that might actually have happened, in the end -- if India had not signed what amounts to a military alliance with the United States.

Informed Indians knew perfectly well that Wen Jiabao's visit was a last-minute attempt to persuade India not to sign a ten-year military cooperation agreement with the United States. Two months later Pranab Mukherjee, then India's foreign minister, went to Washington and signed the thing. Yet most people in New Delhi managed to convince themselves that Wen's concessions during his visit were not linked to India's decision about the American alliance.In June 2006 I spent two weeks in New Delhi interviewing Indian analysts and policy-makers about India's strategic relations with the US and China. With few exceptions, their confidence that India could "manage" China's reaction to its American alliance was still very high. "India knows what it is doing," insisted Prem Shankar Jha, former editor of the Hindustan Times, citing confidential sources close to Prime Minister Singh. "It is not going to make China an enemy."

On the face of it, India got a very good deal in the lengthy negotiations that led up to the military cooperation agreement. It got access not just to current US military technology but to the next generation of American weapons (with full technology transfer). The Indian military are predicted to buy $30 billion of US hardware and software in the next five years. They got all sorts of joint training deals, including US Navy instruction for Indian carrier pilots. And Washington officially forgave India for testing nuclear weapons in 1998.This was the only part of the deal that got much attention in Washington, where the Bush administration waged a long struggle (only recently concluded) to get Congress to end US sanctions against exporting nuclear materials and technologies to India. Stressing the military aspects of the new relationship would only rile the Chinese, who would obviously conclude that it was directed against them. Especially since America's closest allies in the Asia-Pacific region, Japan and Australia, have also now started forging closer military relations with India.

It took a while, but China was bound to react. Last November, just before President Hu Jintao's first visit to India, the Chinese ambassador firmly stated that "the entire state (of Arunachal Pradesh) is a part of China." This took New Delhi by surprise, defence analyst Uday Bhaskar told the Financial Times last week: "The Indians had taken the (2005) political parameters (for negotiating the border issue) as Chinese acceptance of the status quo." They should have known better.

It's mostly petty irritants so far, but they accumulate over time. Last month, for example, Indian Navy ships took part in joint exercises with the US and Japanese navies in the western Pacific, several thousand kilometres from home and quite close to China's east coast. Admiral Sureesh Mehta, chief of naval staff, said the exercise had "no evil intent," and two Indian warships also spent a day exercising with the Chinese navy to take the curse off it -- but Beijing knows which exercise was the important one.

Also last month, India cancelled a confidence-building visit to China by 107 senior civil servants. Why? Because Beijing refused to issue a visa to the one civil servant in the group who was from Arunachal Pradesh, on the grounds that he was already Chinese and did not need one.

A year ago, Indian foreign policy specialists were confident that they could handle China's reaction to their American deal. In fact, many of them seemed to believe that they had taken the Americans to the cleaners: that India would reap all the technology and trade benefits of the US deal without paying any price in terms of its relationship with its giant neighbour to the north.

But there was confidence in Washington, too: a quiet confidence that once India signed the ten-year military cooperation deal with Washington, its relations with China would automatically deteriorate and it would slide willy-nilly into a full military alliance with the United States. Who has taken whom to the cleaners remains to be seen.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/06/15/ed.htm#5
 
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We cannot be put into as second citizen with China or do what China directs us to do, The article is fine but doesnt really equates any thing at all, no matter how much the whole world is saying how we cooperate with US it is in fact our co-operation is very limited.

To be honest India and US peoples have lot in common, about how they percieves things, but The issue of US establishment to pursue interests does not fits right with India.

The problem lies in different manner, the way US foreign policy works , Indian foreign policy does not, We have tradition stuff in our foreign policy means we like to compromise-set-in with partners that is willing to do the same, while US works with its own interest and is ready to dump anyone when its needed.

PS : just read that article, copy cut and paste of some pioneer articles, each paragraph has been taken from one article from Indian source. :lol:

Some of factual mistakes,

1> India is not buying 30bn$ US mil hardware, good media speculation at work :enjoy:

2> US-India HAVE NOT signed any mil tech co-operation that covers the respective deals you have mentioned, I mean C'MON They are blocking i960 processors used in 1970 printers, they are blocking us Pan fibres after Agni 3 test and your talking of mil-cooperation? HAH!

3> India held naval exercise with China as well, it was china-russia-japan-us-singapore, NOTHING SPECIFIC, lets not make mountain out of molehill.

4> Chinas Arunachal Claim HAS NOT BEEN FROM CENTURIES, Based on history if China claims lands I'll ask what will China do if Mongols want seperate land?

5> Indian naval pilots being trained in US has NOTHING TO DO with this, Pakistani pilots has been training in UK, Indian pilots has been training in UK for on hawk, ONLY US HAS A OPERATIONAL CARRIER THAT CAN TRAIN OUR PILOTS USING STOBAR, Goshawk was only suitable trainer thus it was done with them.

It is like exchange pilot system, happens worldwide!!

India denied access to critical component after Agni III launch
http://www.newkerala.com/news5.php?action=fullnews&id=37465

President A P J Abdul Kalam today disclosed that India was denied the access to PAN fiber, a critical component of the Inter-continental Missile programme after the successful launch of Agni III missile.

Speaking after dedicating INSAT 4B to the nation, the President said it was not the first time that the country was denied access of critical technology. He recalled two earlier occasions in 1973-74 and in 1998 when the country demonstrated its nuclear capabilities.


No evil design behind proactive naval exercises: Admiral Mehta

P.S. Suryanarayana
"It is in our national interest to build partnerships with our neighbours"

SINGAPORE: India "requires a strong Navy to ensure peace and stability when the nation's economic strength is growing at the rate at which it is," Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta has said.

Outlining the "maritime doctrine," he said India's ongoing "defence diplomacy" of engaging the navies of some major countries in a series of exercises "is not power projection."

"No nexus"


"It is not as if there is a nexus that is being built up," Admiral Mehta told The Hindu here on Friday, responding to a question about the growing impression that India was moving closer to the United States and Japan in the maritime zone of Greater East Asia.

"There is no evil design, in fact, no design" behind India's proactive naval exercises. "We are now an economic power of some relevance," and this should explain the new surge of strategic interest among the major navies towards India.

The latest wave of naval exercises along the Pacific coastline of East Asia was set off by New Delhi's "initiative." On the politically sensitive exercise with the U.S. off the Japanese waters, as part of the just-concluded series, Admiral Mehta, in Singapore for an international maritime defence exhibition, said India's confidence-building measures towards China were "an ongoing process."

The exercises of varying sophistication involved not only the U.S. and Japan in a trilateral format but also in a bilateral framework with Russia and China, besides Singapore, Vietnam, and the Philippines. In addition, India held an intensive round of Malabar-series bilateral exercise with the U.S. off Okinawa.

Asked whether Australia and Singapore would join India and the U.S. for the proposed Malabar-series exercise along the Bay of Bengal in September, he said Canberra had "not made any commitment as yet."

On indications that the U.S. was now beginning to look upon Indian vessels as part of the informal "1000-ship" global navy to meet emergencies, Admiral Mehta said: "We are not part of any team. It is in our national interest to build partnerships with our neighbouring countries. So we stretch out. The Indian Ocean is named after us. We are a regional Navy. If required in this Indian Ocean region, we will undertake humanitarian missions, stop piracy and gun-running, and all those kind of things in asymmetric warfare."

Asked if the Indian Navy would be willing to join forces with the U.S. for conventional military operations, he said: "We don't do it. We don't believe in it. We have not joined till now... operations in the Gulf — whatever coalitions. And, we don't intend to be part of it. Our policy is: If there is any operation that has to be done under the aegis of the United Nations, we will most certainly make our forces available. We have no intention of joining up in any other manner. ... There is not even a maritime footprint that India is trying to put across. "

On the current strengths of the Indian Navy, he said: "The blue water capability always existed. But the ratio [between this and brown water capacity] had gone a little askew. We are in the process of correcting that."

http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/21/stories/2007052104551300.htm
 
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Even after agreeing to one china policy if China wants to claim AP let them do that, let them infilterate first, eye will reply with eye :) as simple as that.
 
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India: the price of choice

But there was confidence in Washington, too: a quiet confidence that once India signed the ten-year military cooperation deal with Washington, its relations with China would automatically deteriorate and it would slide willy-nilly into a full military alliance with the United States. Who has taken whom to the cleaners remains to be seen.

http://www.dawn.com/2007/06/15/ed.htm#5


excellent article practical analysis :tup:
 
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What we have with us is ours. What China has, ofcourse only little parts, could be ours.

I say thats a damn good stand to take and if you observe that is exactly what the GoI appears to be saying the Chinese.

If the Chinese want to up the ante and fight it out - they're welcome to risk war. Will they fight before 2008 ?

I think they've already done whatever damage they could do to us.
 
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Haha remember there is no Ayub Khan to not attack Kashmir if a Sino-Indian war breaks out.

I think if left with a choice to defend AP or Kashmir, Indians would opt to defend Kashmir. It's a very good ploy you're suggesting.
 
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Haha remember there is no Ayub Khan to not attack Kashmir if a Sino-Indian war breaks out.

I think if left with a choice to defend AP or Kashmir, Indians would opt to defend Kashmir. It's a very good ploy you're suggesting.

Oh please, there was a reason, Ayub Khan didnt attack, his forces werent ready.Give the a man a credit.

Indians would defend every part. We are more than capable of handling a two pronged attack, dont give yourself too much credit and also we have something called nuclear weapons just like you. Like it or not we are far ahead of you.smarts doesnt it.
 
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But I thought India has a no first use doctrine? :P

What will you do nuke Kashmir and AP when you're losing your grip?

You're talking but you know when China attacks, Pakistan is joining in. History has criticized Ayub for not attacking in '62, no Pakistani leader can afford to make the same mistake.

How is India possibly going to defend two fronts!! That's just ridiculous talk. Going nuclear would be such a bad choice. We both have a far greater arsenal of missiles and nuclear weapons. The nuclear retaliation would leave India as a big piece of glass.
 
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But I thought India has a no first use doctrine? :P

What will you do nuke Kashmir and AP when you're losing your grip?

You're talking but you know when China attacks, Pakistan is joining in. History has criticized Ayub for not attacking in '62, no Pakistani leader can afford to make the same mistake.

How is India possibly going to defend two fronts!! That's just ridiculous talk. Going nuclear would be such a bad choice. We both have a far greater arsenal of missiles and nuclear weapons. The nuclear retaliation would leave India as a big piece of glass.

So, Pakistan will be a nuclear wasteland more so than india, reality strikes.
We would be able to defend the Himalayas more easily than you think. Go check the terrain.
If we loose AP or Kashmir, you can expect Beijing or Islamabad to be a glass piece. Pakistan doesnt have bigger aresenal than us, china has only 200.
 
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lol almost everyone agrees India has about 20-30 only compared to our 100. We'll survive.
 
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lol almost everyone agrees India has about 20-30 only compared to our 100. We'll survive.

excuse me!!! that is biggest load of crap, care to give me a good source for it
Most of them agree we have 70-110, while you have 30-60.
Asim, be intelligent; just look at the number of reactor's we have, we make more radioactive material than you
 
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But I thought India has a no first use doctrine? :P

What will you do nuke Kashmir and AP when you're losing your grip?

You're talking but you know when China attacks, Pakistan is joining in. History has criticized Ayub for not attacking in '62, no Pakistani leader can afford to make the same mistake.

How is India possibly going to defend two fronts!! That's just ridiculous talk. Going nuclear would be such a bad choice. We both have a far greater arsenal of missiles and nuclear weapons. The nuclear retaliation would leave India as a big piece of glass.

I hope you KNOW, that since the 65 war, India has always prepared for a two pronged attack. India already takes it for granted that there would be a two side attack and prepares accordingly. Go read about Indian planning, etc, etc. Earlier, it was a supposed to be a three pronged attack(East Pakistan), but thats BD now and unfortunately she is no longer going to attack us.

Ayub did not attack India, because his army was not prepared, and be assured that he did not expect the Chinese to withdraw so soon. He expected his forces to be ready in a about a years time, etc, and that was when the Chinese suddenly withdrew. He did attack in 65 though. So for all your talk of 'history has criticised Ayub', read what had actually happened.

Like i said, India has always prepared for a two pronged attack, we are more than prepared for it.

And as far as nuclear weapons are concerned, you do realise that if India becomes a big piece of glass, so would Pakistan. So how do you plan to get what you want out of this war-Kashmir? When Pakistan ALONG with India would cease to exist.

Rest assured, Pakistan would never EVER attack India in the face of a Chinese aggression, thats wishful thinking on your part.

India is not giving up an inch of the territory it occupies now, if the Chinese want war to claim India, let them try.We lost Askai Chin, and we know we will never get it back. AP is ours, as is Kashmir. Nothing can and will ever change that.
 
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lol almost everyone agrees India has about 20-30 only compared to our 100. We'll survive.

Bull Sh*t. Almost all sources peg India nuclear stockpile to be far higher than Pakistan's. Like Adux said, we have more number of reactors, we produce more nuclear material than you. Not to mention we have a very strong research on FBR going on full swing.

Now, FYI, India is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH larger than Pakistan. If any ones going to survive , its going to be India.

I really do get amused when Pakistani's think that they can win a war against India and destroy India inspite of India having superiority on ALL platforms, in NUMBERS.
 
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