India signs $5 billion deal for Russian air defense system despite threat of U.S. sanctions

[sputnik]

Some members are jumping up and down about this deal but in the end US will win. US is playing a long-term game. US always knew that it could not have prevented india from buying S-400s. However, The various agreements between India and US specially the recent communication technologies, and logistics agreements will ensure the platforms with the Indian armed forces and US will build military interoperability. There will come a time very quickly, when India will be “locked in” and becomes an ally of the US, and will play as a crony of Washington.

Keep speculating. Living in denial is every Pakistani's birth right.

That's probably the most one the important aspects. This is, indirectly, a positive gain for China and Russia.

The kind is posturing orange is doing, there is a fare chance India looking for ways to stop USN in Indian ocean rather CN. this is a Thought very well studied in south block after '71.

 

[randomradio]

Some members are jumping up and down about this deal but in the end US will win. US is playing a long-term game. US always knew that it could not have prevented india from buying S-400s. However, The various agreements between India and US specially the recent communication technologies, and logistics agreements will ensure the platforms with the Indian armed forces and US will build military interoperability. There will come a time very quickly, when India will be “locked in” and becomes an ally of the US, and will play as a crony of Washington.

You have overblown this, which is a typical trait here.

The foundational agreements are restricted to American tech only, and we do not operate much of that. Our military is not interoperable with the US, and our procurement is headed towards the opposite of what the US hopes we will do.

 

[Sam.]

Keep speculating. Living in denial is every Pakistani's birth right.

The kind is posturing orange is doing, there is a fare chance India looking for ways to stop USN in Indian ocean rather CN. this is a Thought very well studied in south block after '71.

If USA sanction us then i will be very happy as we will look for more indigenous option for navy.

 

[LeGenD]

Keep speculating. Living in denial is every Pakistani's birth right.

The kind is posturing orange is doing, there is a fare chance India looking for ways to stop USN in Indian ocean rather CN. this is a Thought very well studied in south block after '71.

So India is OK with PLAN operating in the Indian Ocean? Give me a break.

Delusion meter has overheated. It won't be operational for a while.

Google "Quadrilateral Security Dialogue."

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

US response will be very interesting here.

India may think its playing US by buying weapons from Russia and oil from Iran, but they forget the Trump administration is just as spiteful and vengeful as Modi’s BJP.

In fascist politics, it is always the big dog that wins.

India is going to suffer for this. Most likely with sanctions and maybe with US return to supporting Pakistan with weapons.

US is just as willing to cripple its allies as its enemies. This is going to be bad for India.

 

[TaiShang]

India Mulls Ditching Dollar in Oil Trade With Russia, Iran, Venezuela - Reports

14:37 05.10.2018(updated 15:11 05.10.2018)


This week, Russian President Vladimir Putin called Washington's sanctions policy a "colossal strategic mistake" which has only served to undermine the dollar's credibility as a global reserve currency.

India's Central Bank and Ministry of Finance have been tasked with exploring the feasibility of rupee and barter-based trade agreements with crude oil producing nations such as Russia, Iran and Venezuela, the Times of India has reported, citing an official familiar with the situation.

Citing one example, the official pointed to a potential scheme of trading Indian pharmaceuticals for Venezuelan oil.

In its meeting on Thursday, the Indian inter-ministerial panel headed by Commerce and Industry Minister Suresh Prabhu also asked the Central Bank to explore the possibility of rupee-yuan trade with China, trade deals using the euro instead of the dollar, and the promotion of gold-related initiatives, such as gold-denominated savings accounts and sovereign bonds, and measures to cut gold imports.

© SPUTNIK / ALEXEY MALGAVKO

India, Russia Formally Ink $5.4 billion S-400 Air Defense System Deal - Kremlin

The panel also proposed the need for barter and deferred payment arrangements with Russia in the trade of raw diamonds.


The meeting came amid a sharp slide in the value of the rupee against the dollar this week, with the Indian currency settling at a record low of 73.81 rupees against the dollar on Thursday. The weakening currency combined with rising crude oil prices have served to widen New Delhi's trade and current account deficits.

India is the world's third largest importer of crude oil, with over 60 percent of its imports coming from the Middle East. The country's oil imports rose by 53.55 percent to $58.81 billion in the first five months of 2018.

Speaking at a Russia-India summit in New Delhi on Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Moscow was ready to work with India on a series of energy projects, including Far East LNG and Arctic LNG 2, as well as projects to develop oil and gas fields in Siberia, Yamal and the Russian continental shelf.

© REUTERS / DMITRI LOVETSKY/POOL

Russia Ready to Consider Joint Work With India in Energy Projects – Putin

Friday's summit may lead to new energy deals and a substantial growth in the share of Indian firms in Russia's oil and gas sector, officials have said.


Speaking at the Russian Energy Week forum in Moscow earlier this week, Putin commented on Russia's efforts to reduce dependence on the dollar in trade, characterizing US sanctions policy as a "colossal strategic mistake" which has served to "undermin[e] confidence in the dollar as a universal…reserve currency today." Last month, the chairman of Russia's second-largest bank proposed a multi-step 'de-dollarization' plan for the Russian economy, which is expected to appear on Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev's desk for analysis sometime in the next two weeks. Russia is one of many countries looking to reduce their dependence on the greenback amid increasingly harsh US tariff and sanctions policy.

https://sputniknews.com/business/201810051068626599-india-wants-rupee-denominated-trade/

 

[LeGenD]

The US needs India more than India needs the US when it comes to containing China.

And when it comes to defence, the US knows that India will choose Russia over the US. As for Iran, the US also knows that India is too big and too poor to simply jump to another supplier. So the US has no choice but to provide waivers, or risk alienating India. So neither side has a choice in the matter.

Also, when it comes to defence and oil, we have asked the US to match Russia and Iran, which they have failed to do. For example, the US do not have an S-400 equivalent system, and at the same price, which the Americans themselves have admitted to. And if we are going to lease another nuke sub, our request will be to offer an equivalent or better American sub if they don't want us to get a Russian one. And we have asked the US to supply Iranian equivalent imports in oil at Iranian prices and terms if they want zero imports from Iran, which they can't do either.

In each case, we threw the ball in the American court and they failed to deliver. So life's gonna go on as usual.

Some good points there but I disagree with your first statement.

If India is to deter Chinese foothold in the Indian Ocean, it needs US more then ever now. This is why India is engaged in Quadilateral Security Dialogue.

India - Russia relations is a sensitive topic in India, so US might accomodate India on this front. Understandable.

Iran is a sensitive topic for Trump administration so India have to tread carefully in this respect. Potential waiver in this area would be time-limited.

KSA and Russia have decided to increase their respective oil production meanwhile: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Energy-Minister-Saudi-Arabia-Is-Boosting-Oil-Production.html

- India can look to them.

Last;

Only US have the power to transform India into a true rival of China in all fronts ranging from military to industry. Russia cannot.

---

If US - India relations do not work out, then good news for Pakistan anyways.

 

[sputnik]

So India is OK with PLAN operating in the Indian Ocean? Give me a break.

Delusion meter has overheated. It won't be operational for a while.

Google "Quadrilateral Security Dialogue."

U definitely need a break. Read throughly before spewing BS.
I said if this kind of posturing continued by orange then in coming years India might think of getting rid of USN security pact.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Any word from the US yet?

 

[sputnik]

India Mulls Ditching Dollar in Oil Trade With Russia, Iran, Venezuela - Reports

14:37 05.10.2018(updated 15:11 05.10.2018)


This week, Russian President Vladimir Putin called Washington's sanctions policy a "colossal strategic mistake" which has only served to undermine the dollar's credibility as a global reserve currency.

India's Central Bank and Ministry of Finance have been tasked with exploring the feasibility of rupee and barter-based trade agreements with crude oil producing nations such as Russia, Iran and Venezuela, the Times of India has reported, citing an official familiar with the situation.

Citing one example, the official pointed to a potential scheme of trading Indian pharmaceuticals for Venezuelan oil.

In its meeting on Thursday, the Indian inter-ministerial panel headed by Commerce and Industry Minister Suresh Prabhu also asked the Central Bank to explore the possibility of rupee-yuan trade with China, trade deals using the euro instead of the dollar, and the promotion of gold-related initiatives, such as gold-denominated savings accounts and sovereign bonds, and measures to cut gold imports.

© SPUTNIK / ALEXEY MALGAVKO

India, Russia Formally Ink $5.4 billion S-400 Air Defense System Deal - Kremlin

The panel also proposed the need for barter and deferred payment arrangements with Russia in the trade of raw diamonds.


The meeting came amid a sharp slide in the value of the rupee against the dollar this week, with the Indian currency settling at a record low of 73.81 rupees against the dollar on Thursday. The weakening currency combined with rising crude oil prices have served to widen New Delhi's trade and current account deficits.

India is the world's third largest importer of crude oil, with over 60 percent of its imports coming from the Middle East. The country's oil imports rose by 53.55 percent to $58.81 billion in the first five months of 2018.

Speaking at a Russia-India summit in New Delhi on Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Moscow was ready to work with India on a series of energy projects, including Far East LNG and Arctic LNG 2, as well as projects to develop oil and gas fields in Siberia, Yamal and the Russian continental shelf.

© REUTERS / DMITRI LOVETSKY/POOL

Russia Ready to Consider Joint Work With India in Energy Projects – Putin

Friday's summit may lead to new energy deals and a substantial growth in the share of Indian firms in Russia's oil and gas sector, officials have said.


Speaking at the Russian Energy Week forum in Moscow earlier this week, Putin commented on Russia's efforts to reduce dependence on the dollar in trade, characterizing US sanctions policy as a "colossal strategic mistake" which has served to "undermin[e] confidence in the dollar as a universal…reserve currency today." Last month, the chairman of Russia's second-largest bank proposed a multi-step 'de-dollarization' plan for the Russian economy, which is expected to appear on Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev's desk for analysis sometime in the next two weeks. Russia is one of many countries looking to reduce their dependence on the greenback amid increasingly harsh US tariff and sanctions policy.

https://sputniknews.com/business/201810051068626599-india-wants-rupee-denominated-trade/

India and Russia already have this kind of arrangement since nuclear test sanction days.
Iran already using INR. EVEN L/c are in INR among private business enterprises.
Latest edition is Bangladesh, Vietnam and Venzuela.

 

[LeGenD]

U definitely need a break. Read throughly before spewing BS.
I said if this kind of posturing continued by orange then in coming years India might think of getting rid of USN security pact.

Sorry to disappoint you but India will have to make some compromises in its relations with US if it is looking forward to curtail Chinese foothold in the Indian Ocean.

FYI: https://www.csis.org/analysis/quadrilateral-security-dialogue-and-maritime-silk-road-initiative

Hint: COMCASA

US might accomodate India in its dealings with Russia but Iran will be a different story.

 

[randomradio]

So India is OK with PLAN operating in the Indian Ocean? Give me a break.

Delusion meter has overheated. It won't be operational for a while.

Google "Quadrilateral Security Dialogue."

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...to-the-quad/story-VZVrnkwhvVRICt5UwXB9tN.html

India Mulls Ditching Dollar in Oil Trade With Russia, Iran, Venezuela - Reports

14:37 05.10.2018(updated 15:11 05.10.2018)


This week, Russian President Vladimir Putin called Washington's sanctions policy a "colossal strategic mistake" which has only served to undermine the dollar's credibility as a global reserve currency.

India's Central Bank and Ministry of Finance have been tasked with exploring the feasibility of rupee and barter-based trade agreements with crude oil producing nations such as Russia, Iran and Venezuela, the Times of India has reported, citing an official familiar with the situation.

Citing one example, the official pointed to a potential scheme of trading Indian pharmaceuticals for Venezuelan oil.

In its meeting on Thursday, the Indian inter-ministerial panel headed by Commerce and Industry Minister Suresh Prabhu also asked the Central Bank to explore the possibility of rupee-yuan trade with China, trade deals using the euro instead of the dollar, and the promotion of gold-related initiatives, such as gold-denominated savings accounts and sovereign bonds, and measures to cut gold imports.

© SPUTNIK / ALEXEY MALGAVKO

India, Russia Formally Ink $5.4 billion S-400 Air Defense System Deal - Kremlin

The panel also proposed the need for barter and deferred payment arrangements with Russia in the trade of raw diamonds.


The meeting came amid a sharp slide in the value of the rupee against the dollar this week, with the Indian currency settling at a record low of 73.81 rupees against the dollar on Thursday. The weakening currency combined with rising crude oil prices have served to widen New Delhi's trade and current account deficits.

India is the world's third largest importer of crude oil, with over 60 percent of its imports coming from the Middle East. The country's oil imports rose by 53.55 percent to $58.81 billion in the first five months of 2018.

Speaking at a Russia-India summit in New Delhi on Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Moscow was ready to work with India on a series of energy projects, including Far East LNG and Arctic LNG 2, as well as projects to develop oil and gas fields in Siberia, Yamal and the Russian continental shelf.

© REUTERS / DMITRI LOVETSKY/POOL

Russia Ready to Consider Joint Work With India in Energy Projects – Putin

Friday's summit may lead to new energy deals and a substantial growth in the share of Indian firms in Russia's oil and gas sector, officials have said.


Speaking at the Russian Energy Week forum in Moscow earlier this week, Putin commented on Russia's efforts to reduce dependence on the dollar in trade, characterizing US sanctions policy as a "colossal strategic mistake" which has served to "undermin[e] confidence in the dollar as a universal…reserve currency today." Last month, the chairman of Russia's second-largest bank proposed a multi-step 'de-dollarization' plan for the Russian economy, which is expected to appear on Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev's desk for analysis sometime in the next two weeks. Russia is one of many countries looking to reduce their dependence on the greenback amid increasingly harsh US tariff and sanctions policy.

https://sputniknews.com/business/201810051068626599-india-wants-rupee-denominated-trade/

This is also part of our agenda to make the INR go international.

 

[LeGenD]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...to-the-quad/story-VZVrnkwhvVRICt5UwXB9tN.html



This is also part of our agenda to make the INR go international.

Top statement is for public consumption. US and India have activated COMCASA for a reason.

We will see if the alternate payment system is successful and/or fruitful. Iran is a sensitive topic for Trump administration.

 

[sputnik]

Some good points there but I disagree with your first statement.

If India is to deter Chinese foothold in the Indian Ocean, it needs US more then ever now. This is why India is engaged in Quadilateral Security Dialogue.

India - Russia relations is a sensitive topic in India, so US might accomodate India on this front. Understandable.

Iran is a sensitive topic for Trump administration so India have to tread carefully in this respect. Potential waiver in this area would be time-limited.

KSA and Russia have decided to increase their respective oil production meanwhile: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Energy-Minister-Saudi-Arabia-Is-Boosting-Oil-Production.html

- India can look to them.

Last;

Only US have the power to transform India into a true rival of China in all fronts ranging from military to industry. Russia cannot.

---

If US - India relations do not work out, then good news for Pakistan anyways.

MILITARYWISE, to deter China India needs more Japan then USA. Even if tech. Needed for special weapons.For certain few, who thinks Japan can't defend mainland because of spartly island episode is living in denial. It is Japanese sea network currently used by USN and IN to keep track of PLAN activities. Because of Japanese tilt like Israel towards Washington tht USA have say in such dialogues. ELSE India and Australia are not good at talking terms.
All abv. I am saying should be seen from Military perspective only.

 

[randomradio]

Some good points there but I disagree with your first statement.

If India is to deter Chinese foothold in the Indian Ocean, it needs US more then ever now. This is why India is engaged in Quadilateral Security Dialogue.

The Chinese will not get a foothold in the IOR for at least one more decade due to the geography. They need full fledged bases in the Bay of Bengal region, which they do not have. And possibly, will not get.

So they need technology to offset it. Like nuclear propulsion for destroyers and carriers in order to sustain operations for any meaningful time in the IOR.

Also, I have already provided a link with Adm Lamba saying we shouldn't take the Quad seriously.

Iran is a sensitive topic for Trump administration so India have to tread carefully in this respect. Potential waiver in this area would be time-limited.

The waiver will actually not matter if the Europeans create an alternative to SWIFT over the next few months. It's especially beneficial if they switch to the INR.

KSA and Russia have decided to increase their respective oil production meanwhile: https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Energy-Minister-Saudi-Arabia-Is-Boosting-Oil-Production.html

- India can look to them.

Iran oil is not only cheaper and with good payment terms, but some of our refineries are more suited to Iranian oil. Like the refinery in Mangalore.

Last;

Only US have the power to transform India into a true rival of China in all fronts ranging from military to industry. Russia cannot.

Actually, neither Russia nor the US can, nor are they willing to. If we are to reach the top, we have to do it ourselves.

We are cooperating with both countries in many areas, but they are not simply handing over tech. For example, they are only providing one use stuff, like ramjet for the SFDR/Brahmos or EMALS for the carriers, but not the technology behind them.

If US - India relations do not work out, then good news for Pakistan anyways.

This relationship will work into the foreseeable future actually.

Top statement is for public consumption. US and India have activated COMCASA for a reason.

There's nothing special about COMCASA.

The idea behind it is to allow us to operate American drones, since the drones require a very complex comm network and datalinks in order to make use of the full capabilities of the drones.

There may even be some specific tech used through the P-8s which will allow interoperability, at least to the point where we are not shooting at each other. Connecting our P-8s to the US network will also allow us to share real time intelligence.

Read this:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-information-from-us/articleshow/65710975.cms

As it says in the last line, it does not force us to acquire anything specific from the US. We have instead chosen to go for our own datalink and comm systems that are not compatible with the US systems. The idea is to keep our network separate from theirs, and only link up with their network when necessary, while also keeping them out of our network, with the P-8s acting as a bridge between the two networks.

More reading:
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/how...low-india-to-track-chinese-submarines-1912315