tallboy123
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BTW can u tell me wats superior in EF than Rafale???????
India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist
- Thread starter SpArK
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BTW can u tell me wats superior in EF than Rafale???????
GORKHALI
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RAFALE AASM sead capability demonstrated
French AASM Demonstrates Outstanding Versatility in Libyan Campaign
The Libyan campaign has emphasized unique advantages of the French AASM-250 autonomous guided weapons. Previously criticized in the media as an excessively expensive weapon, AASM proved its value in offering operational flexibility, in providing small fighting formations the effects achied by much larger strike forces. The weapon was developed to meet a wide range of counter-air and offensive air missions, including Counter Air Defense/(Suppression of Enemy Air Defense SEAD), Air Interdiction and Deep Strikes, to Close Air Support (CAS) including precision attacks in urban environments, as well as anti-ship missions.
AASM being reloaded on Rafale - 2011/04
Relying on the AASM extended stand-off range, Rafales were tasked to suppress and destroy SA-3 air defense sites during the initial phases of the conflict. During these strikes, utilizing the Rafales on-board sensor fusion capability, integrating data obtained from on-board sensors and external sources, delivered over Link-16, the fighters could generate strike coordinates based on real-time data, and feed it to the weapon in flight. The French fighters succeeded to hit the active sites with AASM, launching the weapons from long distance, outside the SA-3 launch envelope. Since each individual weapon is programmed with specific target coordinates, multiple weapons can be employed from the same aircraft, to attack different targets. Each weapon can be reprogrammed in flight, enabling it to engage several targets simultaneously (up to six in the case of the Rafale.)
A significant advantage of the AASM is the ability to retarget the weapon from the cockpit, just before launch. A Rafale carrying six weapons, each programmed with six different targets prior to takeoff. In addition to hitting each of the targets, the same fighter can re-attack targets already engaged but not destroyed, ensuring mission success, avoiding the high risk and costs involved with repeat missions, following battle damage assessment. Overall, Sagem claims a mission success rate of over 90%, compared to 70%, achieved by unpowered (gliding) laser guided or geo-targeted weapons, which are also restricting mission planning in flight envelope, flight trajectory, impact angle and penetration.
When employed against air defense assets, the combination of the weapons stand-off range and re-attack capability means an air defense site would be taken out of operation for longer periods, delivering higher success rate in SEAD operations and precision attacks of high value targets. Another important capability, particularly in todays hybrid warfare, is the weapons flexibility in striking time critical targets. During the recent attacks in Libya, a Rafale pilot clearly demonstrated such method, when spotting a Libyan Soko G2 Galeb aircraft flying near Misrata. As the Libyan plane landed at the base, the Rafale pilot acquired its coordinates as a target of opportunity, fed the data to the weapon and launched the GPS/INS guided AASM against the target. As the weapon dropped, it homed in on the exact spot and destroyed the Libyan aircraft on the tarmac.
Operational with the French Air Force, and French Naval Aviation, AASM is produced made by Safran subsidiary Sagem DS. The weapon was first deployed in Afghanistan with the French Rafale in 2008. The baseline AASM kit comprises of the INS/GPS guidance system, designed for standard 250 kg (500 pounds) bombs. The AASM family will eventually include 125, 500 and 1,000 kg (250, 1000, and 2000 pounds) versions. Since the French forces have received only the initial deliveries of 3,500 weapons ordered, chances are that the used inventory could be replenished by extending current production runs. It is assumed that new weapons could be delivered at considerably lower costs than the original ones, as the manufacturer has stepped up the learning curve. Nevertheless, the cost of a basic AASM is still expected to ship at around $300,000 apiece (200,000).
The weapon uses a booster/sustainer rocket engine accelerating it to the designated cruising speed and altitude, from where it is designed to continue through an autonomous operation, in day or night and in all weather conditions. It can be released at low altitude, and can also be fired up to 180 degrees off-axis in relation to the aircrafts flight path, (backwards) attacking targets from any direction, from standoff distance exceeding 50 km.
AASM-250 weapons are currently fitted with inertial/GPS guidance. The addition of semi-active laser seeker, and algorithms to track fixed or mobile targets during the terminal phase, will enhance the operational flexibility of the AASM family. Two versions are currently available and qualified for firing by the Rafale multirole fighter the inertial/GPS and soon to be fielded inertial/GPS/infrared. The laser terminal guidance version of the AASM is expected to enter volume production for the French air force and navy starting at the end of 2012.
In addition to the basic GPS/INS guidance, AASM will also offer optional terminal guidance kits. These add-on features currently under development, will increase attack precision and enable engagement of fast moving targets. The infra-red seeker enables the weapon to hit small targets with distinctive signature, overcoming target location errors y undertaking a terminal correction just before impact. The semi-active laser seeker, along with associated moving target algorithms enable engagement of any surface target (stationary or moving) illuminated by a target designator, even targets travelling at high speed.
The AASM-125 was successfully tested in February 2009 on a Mirage 2000. The AASM-1000 is under development, as are new features such as airburst and data link. The AASM has also been selected to equip the Moroccan Mirage F-1s and are considered a likely choice for Air Forces considering the French Rafale (India, Brazil). Sagem is also addressing other platforms as well, including opportunities to arm Mirage 2000s in foreign service.
Rafale News: Libya, AASM sead capability demonstrated (2)
French AASM Demonstrates Outstanding Versatility in Libyan Campaign
The Libyan campaign has emphasized unique advantages of the French AASM-250 autonomous guided weapons. Previously criticized in the media as an excessively expensive weapon, AASM proved its value in offering operational flexibility, in providing small fighting formations the effects achied by much larger strike forces. The weapon was developed to meet a wide range of counter-air and offensive air missions, including Counter Air Defense/(Suppression of Enemy Air Defense SEAD), Air Interdiction and Deep Strikes, to Close Air Support (CAS) including precision attacks in urban environments, as well as anti-ship missions.
AASM being reloaded on Rafale - 2011/04
Relying on the AASM extended stand-off range, Rafales were tasked to suppress and destroy SA-3 air defense sites during the initial phases of the conflict. During these strikes, utilizing the Rafales on-board sensor fusion capability, integrating data obtained from on-board sensors and external sources, delivered over Link-16, the fighters could generate strike coordinates based on real-time data, and feed it to the weapon in flight. The French fighters succeeded to hit the active sites with AASM, launching the weapons from long distance, outside the SA-3 launch envelope. Since each individual weapon is programmed with specific target coordinates, multiple weapons can be employed from the same aircraft, to attack different targets. Each weapon can be reprogrammed in flight, enabling it to engage several targets simultaneously (up to six in the case of the Rafale.)
A significant advantage of the AASM is the ability to retarget the weapon from the cockpit, just before launch. A Rafale carrying six weapons, each programmed with six different targets prior to takeoff. In addition to hitting each of the targets, the same fighter can re-attack targets already engaged but not destroyed, ensuring mission success, avoiding the high risk and costs involved with repeat missions, following battle damage assessment. Overall, Sagem claims a mission success rate of over 90%, compared to 70%, achieved by unpowered (gliding) laser guided or geo-targeted weapons, which are also restricting mission planning in flight envelope, flight trajectory, impact angle and penetration.
When employed against air defense assets, the combination of the weapons stand-off range and re-attack capability means an air defense site would be taken out of operation for longer periods, delivering higher success rate in SEAD operations and precision attacks of high value targets. Another important capability, particularly in todays hybrid warfare, is the weapons flexibility in striking time critical targets. During the recent attacks in Libya, a Rafale pilot clearly demonstrated such method, when spotting a Libyan Soko G2 Galeb aircraft flying near Misrata. As the Libyan plane landed at the base, the Rafale pilot acquired its coordinates as a target of opportunity, fed the data to the weapon and launched the GPS/INS guided AASM against the target. As the weapon dropped, it homed in on the exact spot and destroyed the Libyan aircraft on the tarmac.
Operational with the French Air Force, and French Naval Aviation, AASM is produced made by Safran subsidiary Sagem DS. The weapon was first deployed in Afghanistan with the French Rafale in 2008. The baseline AASM kit comprises of the INS/GPS guidance system, designed for standard 250 kg (500 pounds) bombs. The AASM family will eventually include 125, 500 and 1,000 kg (250, 1000, and 2000 pounds) versions. Since the French forces have received only the initial deliveries of 3,500 weapons ordered, chances are that the used inventory could be replenished by extending current production runs. It is assumed that new weapons could be delivered at considerably lower costs than the original ones, as the manufacturer has stepped up the learning curve. Nevertheless, the cost of a basic AASM is still expected to ship at around $300,000 apiece (200,000).
The weapon uses a booster/sustainer rocket engine accelerating it to the designated cruising speed and altitude, from where it is designed to continue through an autonomous operation, in day or night and in all weather conditions. It can be released at low altitude, and can also be fired up to 180 degrees off-axis in relation to the aircrafts flight path, (backwards) attacking targets from any direction, from standoff distance exceeding 50 km.
AASM-250 weapons are currently fitted with inertial/GPS guidance. The addition of semi-active laser seeker, and algorithms to track fixed or mobile targets during the terminal phase, will enhance the operational flexibility of the AASM family. Two versions are currently available and qualified for firing by the Rafale multirole fighter the inertial/GPS and soon to be fielded inertial/GPS/infrared. The laser terminal guidance version of the AASM is expected to enter volume production for the French air force and navy starting at the end of 2012.
In addition to the basic GPS/INS guidance, AASM will also offer optional terminal guidance kits. These add-on features currently under development, will increase attack precision and enable engagement of fast moving targets. The infra-red seeker enables the weapon to hit small targets with distinctive signature, overcoming target location errors y undertaking a terminal correction just before impact. The semi-active laser seeker, along with associated moving target algorithms enable engagement of any surface target (stationary or moving) illuminated by a target designator, even targets travelling at high speed.
The AASM-125 was successfully tested in February 2009 on a Mirage 2000. The AASM-1000 is under development, as are new features such as airburst and data link. The AASM has also been selected to equip the Moroccan Mirage F-1s and are considered a likely choice for Air Forces considering the French Rafale (India, Brazil). Sagem is also addressing other platforms as well, including opportunities to arm Mirage 2000s in foreign service.
Rafale News: Libya, AASM sead capability demonstrated (2)
koushik
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More info about the French AASM. http://www.sagem-ds.com/IMG/pdf/D1215E-AASM.pdf
KEETARP
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. Can't comprehend your point ???????
SpArK
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France hint on Pak
New Delhi, May 7: The French government is mulling downgrading its strategic partnership with Pakistan, officials of the European country hinted to foreign secretary Nirupama Rao during her visit to Paris.
Rao was in Paris on May 5-6 for the annual India-France foreign office consultations. The Indian foreign secretary landed in Paris barely hours after Pakistan Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani concluded his not-so-happy three-day state visit to France.
New Delhi has for long been asking western countries to review their military assistance to Pakistan, mostly sought for the war against terror, but which the government feels has been directed at India.
Now, public opinion in France has questioned the countrys non-civilian help to Islamabad after the discovery that Osama bin Laden had spent several years hiding in Pakistans Abbottabad, sources said. Paris is also conscious of India potentially being a more important partner than Pakistan in the years to come.
France wants to sell nuclear reactors and military hardware worth thousands of crores of rupees to India in the years to come, including French fighter jet Rafale, which along with Eurofighter Typhoon, is in the reckoning for the over Rs 50,000-crore defence deal.
Rao held discussions with senior French officials led by Pierre Sellal, the secretary-general of the ministry of foreign affairs of France.
A spokesperson for the ministry of external affairs said the two sides reviewed the entire range of bilateral relations including strategic co-operation in key areas, such as civil nuclear energy, defence, space, trade and investment, education, science and technology and culture.
There was also an exchange of views on the regional and international situation. The two sides also discussed the evolving situation in North Africa and the Middle East, in particular Libya and Syria, the spokesperson said.
Foreign officials said the two sides discussed ways to strengthen an India-France strategic partnership, defined by the strong and future-oriented vision articulated during the visit of the President of France to India from December 4-7, 2010.
The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | France hint on Pak
SpArK
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Loïc Piedevache, Country Head (India Operations), MBDA Group, Interview.
MBDA, a world leader in missiles and missiles system, desires to be a major player in the Indian defence market and is viewing India as the fifth pillar of its structure in addition to current partner countries France, UK, Italy and Germany. Loïc Piedevache, Country Head (India Operations), MBDA Group, in conversation with SPs Editor-in-Chief Jayant Baranwal spoke about building a reliable, strategic and long-term partnership in India.
SP Guide Publications (SPs): MBDA was formed with the merger of key missile producers in France, Italy and Great Britain, and subsequent acquisition in Germany. Has this made you a world leader or was it a fait accompli?
Loïc Piedevache (Loïc): In the past few decades, there have been many mergers and reorganisations in the defence sector worldwide. The merger of several companies has resulted in bigger turnover and a best use of resources.
But a lot of hard work was required to effectively integrate the companies and ensure that their operating systems were coordinated properly. In order to create a suitable business model, resources had to be pooled in the most effective manner with the correct use of synergies.
MBDA has set a benchmark in terms of international integration within the defence sector and has become a global player.
SPs: Can you please tell us about the companys current profile? How do you position yourself in the global market today?
Loïc: MBDA is a global player having business in defence markets across the globe. We are moving towards a situation where over 50 per cent of our turnover will come from export activities as opposed to domestic sales (UK, France, Italy, and Germany).
SPs: Can you briefly outline the companys history? What are the factors that lead to the merger? In hindsight, what have been its positive points?
Loïc: The consolidation of Europe's missile companies began in 1996, when parts of Matra Defence and BAe Dynamics merged to form Matra BAe Dynamics (MBD). In 1999, the Aérospatiale-Matra Missiles was formed. In 1998, GEC-Marconi Radar and Defence Systems and Alenia Difesa combined their missile and radar activities to form Alenia Marconi Systems (AMS). In December 2001, MBD (including AMM) and the Missile and Missile Systems activities of AMS were merged and thus came up MBDA. In June 2005, LFK, a unit of EADS Defence and Security Systems merged with MBDA. The merger was necessary for the survival of the fragmented European industry.
SPs: What is the annual turnover of MBDA? Your website says you have as many as 45 products in service. What are your most sought-after products?
Loïc: The growth was rapid and by 2005 MBDA had doubled its turnover to 3 billion Euros. The companys current turnover (2009) stands at 2.6 billion Euros. It will be difficult to say what are our most sought after products. In terms of quantity (number not value) large quantities of Eryx missiles and Exocet missiles have been sold. Mistral is in service with about 30 countries and will soon be in service on the Indian Dhruv/WSI. But MILAN manufactured under license in India by BDL has been sold in even higher quantities around the world.
SPs: MBDA is one of the leading manufacturers of missiles in the world. In what ways are the 15 new products now being developed by MBDA different?
Loïc: The new developments include intelligent warheads, modular systems, and new propulsion technologies among others. They are all designed to meet new customer requirements regarding new terms of engagement, new platforms, threats, etc.
SPs: When something becomes seemingly obsolete, do you phase out the product or upgrade it? Or is it a combination of both?
Loïc: Due to budget constraints, some customers ask to extend the life of their existing missiles. In many cases we have provided life-extention service up to 5-10 years through our support team. As we respond to customer operational needs, it results in the long-term development of our product portfolio. Of course, we need to provide long-term support for in-service products and so we cannot just decide a product line as obsolete and ignore it.
MBDAs Meteor visual range air-to-air missile:
Dominates the world market
SPs: Can you please elaborate on the ground-based air defence missile, air dominance missile and surface to surface missile systems manufactured by MBDA?
Loïc: MBDA is a leader in providing a range of defence systems to create an effective layered defence systemfrom deployable short range systems such as Mistral and VL Mica to higher level systems such as Aster.
Our air dominance range includes ASRAAM, Mica and Meteor to ensure the air-to-air battle. Dual Mode Brimstone and Storm Shadow/SCALP are available to deliver devastating precision in the air-to-ground attack missions.
In the battlefield warfare, MBDA is offering MILAN and Eryx missiles. Concerning the maritime threats, we can offer a wide choice of weapons: the latest generation of Exocet family (MM40 Block 3) and Otomat Mk2 Block IV for long range targets and Marte Mk2 for middle range targets.
SPs: You lay a lot of emphasis on customer support. How do you ensure that every sale is followed by quality customer support?
Loïc: Customer support is crucial for us. We ensure that the customer gets the maximum benefit from the equipment through life support through life performance. Our support service ranges from training, spares management, repair work, assistance with live firings, stockpile management, etc.
Our customer service is highly personalized and does not come off the shelf or out of a catalogue. It is discussed, developed, adapted, customised and implemented in line with each and every customers specific requirements. Our approach is work in-country with the customer.
SPs: Will you also offer core technologies like the design of the active seeker head and the missile engine apart from the other subsystems?
Loïc: Sensitive technologies will be transferred in the frame of SRSAM, but at this stage, we cannot disclose more information.
SPs: Are you working on any other joint venture with BDL?
Loïc: MBDA does not have any JV with BDL. We are providing production licenses to BDL.
SPs: How do you look at the future?
Loïc: We work 20 years ahead of time!
- SP's Aviation
sudhir007
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The RBE-2 AA picture released yesterday by Thales has raised a polemic all around the web. Indeed, the number of modules of the presented antenna is exacly 838, which is almost 20% less than the usually advertised "1000 modules" for this radar.
However it is not known if the picture shows the actual radar. It could be an earlier prototype or a dummy. One thing is sure, though: it is exactly the same antenna (same pattern) as the one shown in the previous pictures of the RBE-2 AA.
The graph on the left is illustrating the asymmetrical pattern of the modules and the number of modules on each of the 36 columns of the antenna.
Rafale News: Thales AESA RBE-2 modules pattern
SpArK
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09 May 2011
RAF strikes target FROG-7 Rocket Launchers and SCUD canisters in Qadhafi home town
Royal Air Force aircraft destroyed a number of Qadhafi-regime rocket launchers and missiles on Friday morning as part of the NATO mission to protect Libyan civilians from attack.
Two Tornado GR4 aircraft struck the weapons at a location south of Sirte in a co-ordinated attack based on intelligence gathered earlier by other RAF aircraft.
Video taken from the Tornados Litening III targeting pod clearly shows a number of large secondary explosions after Paveway bombs struck the targets.
A previous mission had identified and gathered images of a possible site of interest. These images were analysed by specialists from the RAF Tactical Imagery Wing, who identified a large number of FROG-7 rocket launchers and several SCUD canisters.
Once the imagery experts had identified the targets they could be briefed to NATO pilots operating over Libya. An RAF flight on May 5 targeted both the FROG-7 launchers and the SCUD canisters using a number of Paveway IV bombs - a highly accurate weapon that uses both laser designation and GPS for guidance. The aircrew carried out a full assessment before the attacks to ensure that collateral damage was kept to a minimum.
After the strike the Tornadoes assessed that 20 FROG-7 launchers and significant number of SCUD canisters were either completely or partially destroyed, ensuring that these weapons cannot now be used to attack defenceless people.
Secretary of State for Defence, Dr Liam Fox, said:
"I have no doubt that this stockpile of weapons could have been used to threaten and kill innocent Libyans. We continue to degrade and destroy a range of military assets including tanks, armoured personnel carriers and rocket launchers that threaten the civilian population. This hugely successful mission is an example of how we are stepping up our strikes on Qadhafi's forces that continue to attack the Libyan people. The international coalition is resolute in its UN mandated task of protecting the civilian population."
The FROG-7 can fire rockets up to 70km and would pose a serious threat to civilians if used against an urban area. The SCUD tactical ballistic missile can strike targets up to 300km nd can carry a one-tonne warhead. Like the FROG-7, SCUD is not a precision weapon but poses a serious threat because of the size of the warhead. Both weapon types are mobile and could have been moved by regime forces to threaten civilians in any Libyan city.
Pictures:
Still images taken from footage provided by a Tornado GR4 aircraft which destroyed a number of Qadhafi-regime rocket launchers and missiles.
Stock picture of a SCUD missile launcher, at RAF Spadeadam
More info here : Launcher Strike
Its still the Tornadoes used for ground attack it seems.
sancho
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Comparison of possible weapon configs:
A2A:
EF - 4 x SR AAMs + 6 MR AAMs + 3 x 1000l fuel tanks
Rafale - 4 x SR AAMs + 4 MR AAMs + 3 x 1250l fuel tanks
Advantage EF, more missiles with pretty much the same range and endurance.
LGB (PGM) strike (each with 1 x LDP and up to 6 x AAMs):
250lb - EF not planed yet / Rafale 6 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
500lb - EF 4 + 2 x 1000l fuel tanks / Rafale 6 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
1000lb - EF 4 + 2 x 1000l fuel tanks / Rafale 2 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
2000lb - EF 1 + 2 x 1000l fuel tanks only with a 2nd fighter for laser guidance / Rafale 2 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
Advantage Rafale, more wet stations, bigger fuel tanks, dedicated LDP station, multi pylons, GPS and IR guided bombs, no external guidance needed, most of this operational now and if a customer wants even CFTs are available.
CAS with A2G missiles (each with up to 6 x AAMs):
EF - 18 x Brimstone missiles + 1 x 1000l fuel tank
Rafale - 4 x laser guided rocket pods (each with 10 to 12 rockets) + 1 x 2000l fuel tank, or 12 x Brimstone missiles + 1 x 2000l fuel tank
Advantage Rafale, rocket pods already under development and there is even interest to integrate Brimstone, while the RAF seems to have no focus on it as long as the Tornados are still available and more capable.
Cruise / standoff missile deep strike (each with up to 6 x AAMs):
EF - 2 + 1 x 1000l fuel tank
Rafale 1 + 2 x 2000l fuel tanks, 2 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks, or 3 + 2 x 2000l fuel tanks
Advantage Rafale, more variety of loadouts, much greater range and operational, while EF is limited to a single config only, with poor range and only planed around 2018.
Maritime attack (each with up to 6 x AAMs):
EF - 2 x anti ship missiles + 1 x 1000l fuel tanks
Rafale - 1 x anti ship missile + 2 x 2000l fuel tanks, or 2 x anti ship missiles + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
Advantage Rafale, operational, more variety of loadouts, more range. EF only if we pay for integration!
A2A:
EF - 4 x SR AAMs + 6 MR AAMs + 3 x 1000l fuel tanks
Rafale - 4 x SR AAMs + 4 MR AAMs + 3 x 1250l fuel tanks
Advantage EF, more missiles with pretty much the same range and endurance.
LGB (PGM) strike (each with 1 x LDP and up to 6 x AAMs):
250lb - EF not planed yet / Rafale 6 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
500lb - EF 4 + 2 x 1000l fuel tanks / Rafale 6 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
1000lb - EF 4 + 2 x 1000l fuel tanks / Rafale 2 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
2000lb - EF 1 + 2 x 1000l fuel tanks only with a 2nd fighter for laser guidance / Rafale 2 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
Advantage Rafale, more wet stations, bigger fuel tanks, dedicated LDP station, multi pylons, GPS and IR guided bombs, no external guidance needed, most of this operational now and if a customer wants even CFTs are available.
CAS with A2G missiles (each with up to 6 x AAMs):
EF - 18 x Brimstone missiles + 1 x 1000l fuel tank
Rafale - 4 x laser guided rocket pods (each with 10 to 12 rockets) + 1 x 2000l fuel tank, or 12 x Brimstone missiles + 1 x 2000l fuel tank
Advantage Rafale, rocket pods already under development and there is even interest to integrate Brimstone, while the RAF seems to have no focus on it as long as the Tornados are still available and more capable.
Cruise / standoff missile deep strike (each with up to 6 x AAMs):
EF - 2 + 1 x 1000l fuel tank
Rafale 1 + 2 x 2000l fuel tanks, 2 + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks, or 3 + 2 x 2000l fuel tanks
Advantage Rafale, more variety of loadouts, much greater range and operational, while EF is limited to a single config only, with poor range and only planed around 2018.
Maritime attack (each with up to 6 x AAMs):
EF - 2 x anti ship missiles + 1 x 1000l fuel tanks
Rafale - 1 x anti ship missile + 2 x 2000l fuel tanks, or 2 x anti ship missiles + 3 x 2000l fuel tanks
Advantage Rafale, operational, more variety of loadouts, more range. EF only if we pay for integration!
Gandhi G in da house
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From what i have been reading about both the planes , it seems that typhoon is better from A@A combat whereas Rafale is better for A2G .
The plane that wins will probably depend upon in which department IAF has more requirement , A2A or A2G.
Does anyone have any idea which area IAF will be giving more weightage to ?
P.S- one more thanks for you sparky .
The plane that wins will probably depend upon in which department IAF has more requirement , A2A or A2G.
Does anyone have any idea which area IAF will be giving more weightage to ?
P.S- one more thanks for you sparky .
sancho
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The design of the EF is better for A2A, while the Rafale design is better for multi role. When you compare the performance in both roles other factors like weapons and techs play a role as well. If you rate both fighters in these roles (from 1 to 5, the lower the better), the EF might be a 1, Rafale a close 2, but in A2G Rafale is a 1 and EF with all capablities available or fixed for tranche 3, hardly a 4, because it's not even better than IAF Mirage 2000s.
So any air force that searches for an air superiority fighter, the EF is a great choice, but if you want a multi role fighter, especially if you have an air superiority fighter anyway, the Rafale is the obvious choice!
Archie
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Well , As far as i know
IAF is mainly interested in good ground attack capability
Coz we are inducting some 270 Su30MKI and will induct 250 FGFA from 2020
Thats enough for air superiority
MMRCA fighter is no longer expected to replace Mig21 which it was earliar intended to do , but Mig27 and Jaguars
Mig27 will begin retiring between 2012-17 , while Jaguars are expected to retire between 2017-2024
126 mmrca aircrafts will replace some 96 Mig27 and 39 Jaguars by 2019
Any follow on order for mmrca which could be anywhere between 64 to 134 aircrafts will mainly depend on 2 things
Mirage 2000 upgrade being cancelled and any possible delay in fgfa
While i dont expect expect Delay in FGFA , but there is still a possibility of mirage upgrade being cancelled , add to that 100 odd jaguars which will have to be replaced between 2020-24
So we should be looking at a definite follow on order for 64/74 mmrca
I am pretty sure most of u would agree with the idea of our entire ground attack fleet comprising 139 Jaguars , 95 Mig27 and 51 mirage 2000H
Thats 285 Aircrafts being replaced by a Single mmrca aircraft , most likely the RAFALE
How about it 200-260 RAFALES replacing 285 odd aircrafts
WE will save a fortune in training , mentainence and weapons cost
IAF is mainly interested in good ground attack capability
Coz we are inducting some 270 Su30MKI and will induct 250 FGFA from 2020
Thats enough for air superiority
MMRCA fighter is no longer expected to replace Mig21 which it was earliar intended to do , but Mig27 and Jaguars
Mig27 will begin retiring between 2012-17 , while Jaguars are expected to retire between 2017-2024
126 mmrca aircrafts will replace some 96 Mig27 and 39 Jaguars by 2019
Any follow on order for mmrca which could be anywhere between 64 to 134 aircrafts will mainly depend on 2 things
Mirage 2000 upgrade being cancelled and any possible delay in fgfa
While i dont expect expect Delay in FGFA , but there is still a possibility of mirage upgrade being cancelled , add to that 100 odd jaguars which will have to be replaced between 2020-24
So we should be looking at a definite follow on order for 64/74 mmrca
I am pretty sure most of u would agree with the idea of our entire ground attack fleet comprising 139 Jaguars , 95 Mig27 and 51 mirage 2000H
Thats 285 Aircrafts being replaced by a Single mmrca aircraft , most likely the RAFALE
How about it 200-260 RAFALES replacing 285 odd aircrafts
WE will save a fortune in training , mentainence and weapons cost
sudhir007
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US stumped by Europe | idrw.org
The F16 is a 40-year-old single-engine aircraft which has been the mainstay of the Pakistani Air Force while the F18 did not fulfil the IAFs parameters.
The President of the USA, Mr Barack Obama, described Operation Geronimo as one of the greatest intelligence military operations in our nations history. We got Osama. But a month earlier, Mr Obama lost out at least so far on the other prize he had eyed: Indias multi-million-dollar order for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft.
In a letter dated February 4, 2011 to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Mr Obama wrote: Let me reassure you that the US is a willing, capable and reliable defence partner to India. High-tech defence sales are increasingly a cornerstone of our strategic partnership. I want to underscore the strategic importance the United States attaches to the selection of a US proposal in Indias MMRCA competition. The US is offering India two of the most advanced multi-mission combat aircraft in the world the Boeing FA/18IN and the Lockheed Martin F16IN. These aircraft have a demonstrated qualitative military advantage over any current fourth generation plus aircraft I view the MMRCA acquisition as a key step along this path. I respectfully ask that your Government will give its full consideration to the commercial, technical and strategic merit to the US proposal.
Two months later, the upfront rejection by India of both the Boeing F18 and Lockheed Martin F16 is a strategic error. Many defence experts expected the F18 to be sneaked into the shortlist along with the European Typhoon and the French Rafale to make the competition trans-Atlantic and politically more vibrant.
Many reasons are being given for keeping the American aircraft out, the most obvious being that they are not up to scratch. The F16 is a 40-year-old single-engine aircraft with a psychological hangover for the Indian Air Force it has been the mainstay of the Pakistani Air Force for four decades. The F18 did not fulfil all of the IAFs technical parameters but the twin-engine aircraft could have been included in deference to the India-US strategic partnership and to keep the price negotiations on an even keel.
The Eurofighter is priced at around $125 million while the Rafale is $85 million. Less than $50 million, the F18 could have forced some markdown of the European contenders, inducing additionally cuts in lifecycle costs. The two aircraft selected have been asked to review their price bids. The final selection will be a political and strategic decision not necessarily based on the lowest bid and will be taken by the Cabinet Committee on Security.
The IAF favours the Rafale not the least because the French are promising the moon. There is also a high level back channel Italian connection, they say. The Rafale will bestow several advantages facilitate the Mirage 2000 upgrade programme; slip fit into the existing operational and logistics infrastructure of Mirage 2000. Snecma, which has built the Rafale engine, is also the company which provides engines for Mirage 2000, so that is a bonus. The Rafale though is not in service of any other air force except that of France.
Similarly of the four countries that have developed the Typhoon, three Britain, Italy and Spain have decided to go in for the fifth generation F35 being developed by the US. The British RAF is pounding Col Gaddafi with the Typhoon.
The $10 million MMRCA contract was expected to generate 27,000 jobs and boost the flagging defence industry in the US. But the history of India-US defence relationship has not been a happy one. Except for the purchase of the Packet aircraft by the IAF in 1962, no other aircraft has been acquired. The IAF has relied on British, French and mainly Soviet/Russian origin fleets.
The US has not stood by India and imposed sanctions on it in 1974, after the Pokhran I peaceful nuclear explosion, and again in 1998, after the Pokhran II nuclear tests. Ironically, the nuclear tests revived defence ties but India was still wary that the US would turn off the tap as it had in the case of spares of Westland Sea-King helicopters, Navy ALH engines, etc. In 2004, when India signed the Hawk jet trainer contract with the UK, the clause that there will be no US parts was inserted on Indias insistence which led to time and cost overruns.
As WikiLeaks has revealed, India had the word strategic removed from the text of the Defence Framework Agreement of 2005 with the US, so high was the level of distrust. India has evaded signing many of the several obligatory agreements going by difficult acronyms like CISMOA, BECA, SOFA, EUMA and so on which accompany high-tech equipment and convert a partnership into a de facto alliance relationship. They entail interoperability, end-user inspections and verifications and periodic certification on legitimate use of equipment and supplies.
Till 2005, India had acquired military supplies from the US worth less than $500 million which included 12 weapon-locating radars this one single deal taking 15 years to fructify after a tortuous scrutiny of Indias bona fides. Since then, the US has sold (or will sell) equipment worth $15 billion through the FMS route which ensures probity and transparency. The huge jump in US defence sales has turned the corner as far as reliability of American defence supplies is concerned.
Why have technical considerations alone trumped political and strategic imperatives of the MMRCA contract? The US Ambassador to India, Mr Timothy Roemer, who announced his resignation the day after the decision to reject the American bid, said, I am deeply disappointed but respect the selection process. Analysts believe awarding the contract to a European fighter is political balancing: The US has won $15 billion worth of contracts and Russia already hogs defence purchases and has been awarded the fifth generation fighter deal. So Europe is the obvious choice for spreading the largesse, given it has a first rate fourth generation aircraft.
The door seems to have been closed for American aircraft by not including the F18 in the short list which would have been politically correct and would also have recognised the White House missive. Maybe it was the presidential letter and the WikiLeaks cable indicating how craven Indian officials are with American diplomats. The Left has consistently accused the Manmohan Singh Government of having sold out to the US.
Ruling out US aircraft reflects strategic autonomy certainly, but the game could have been played more optimally by making it a three-horse race.
The F16 is a 40-year-old single-engine aircraft which has been the mainstay of the Pakistani Air Force while the F18 did not fulfil the IAFs parameters.
The President of the USA, Mr Barack Obama, described Operation Geronimo as one of the greatest intelligence military operations in our nations history. We got Osama. But a month earlier, Mr Obama lost out at least so far on the other prize he had eyed: Indias multi-million-dollar order for Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft.
In a letter dated February 4, 2011 to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, Mr Obama wrote: Let me reassure you that the US is a willing, capable and reliable defence partner to India. High-tech defence sales are increasingly a cornerstone of our strategic partnership. I want to underscore the strategic importance the United States attaches to the selection of a US proposal in Indias MMRCA competition. The US is offering India two of the most advanced multi-mission combat aircraft in the world the Boeing FA/18IN and the Lockheed Martin F16IN. These aircraft have a demonstrated qualitative military advantage over any current fourth generation plus aircraft I view the MMRCA acquisition as a key step along this path. I respectfully ask that your Government will give its full consideration to the commercial, technical and strategic merit to the US proposal.
Two months later, the upfront rejection by India of both the Boeing F18 and Lockheed Martin F16 is a strategic error. Many defence experts expected the F18 to be sneaked into the shortlist along with the European Typhoon and the French Rafale to make the competition trans-Atlantic and politically more vibrant.
Many reasons are being given for keeping the American aircraft out, the most obvious being that they are not up to scratch. The F16 is a 40-year-old single-engine aircraft with a psychological hangover for the Indian Air Force it has been the mainstay of the Pakistani Air Force for four decades. The F18 did not fulfil all of the IAFs technical parameters but the twin-engine aircraft could have been included in deference to the India-US strategic partnership and to keep the price negotiations on an even keel.
The Eurofighter is priced at around $125 million while the Rafale is $85 million. Less than $50 million, the F18 could have forced some markdown of the European contenders, inducing additionally cuts in lifecycle costs. The two aircraft selected have been asked to review their price bids. The final selection will be a political and strategic decision not necessarily based on the lowest bid and will be taken by the Cabinet Committee on Security.
The IAF favours the Rafale not the least because the French are promising the moon. There is also a high level back channel Italian connection, they say. The Rafale will bestow several advantages facilitate the Mirage 2000 upgrade programme; slip fit into the existing operational and logistics infrastructure of Mirage 2000. Snecma, which has built the Rafale engine, is also the company which provides engines for Mirage 2000, so that is a bonus. The Rafale though is not in service of any other air force except that of France.
Similarly of the four countries that have developed the Typhoon, three Britain, Italy and Spain have decided to go in for the fifth generation F35 being developed by the US. The British RAF is pounding Col Gaddafi with the Typhoon.
The $10 million MMRCA contract was expected to generate 27,000 jobs and boost the flagging defence industry in the US. But the history of India-US defence relationship has not been a happy one. Except for the purchase of the Packet aircraft by the IAF in 1962, no other aircraft has been acquired. The IAF has relied on British, French and mainly Soviet/Russian origin fleets.
The US has not stood by India and imposed sanctions on it in 1974, after the Pokhran I peaceful nuclear explosion, and again in 1998, after the Pokhran II nuclear tests. Ironically, the nuclear tests revived defence ties but India was still wary that the US would turn off the tap as it had in the case of spares of Westland Sea-King helicopters, Navy ALH engines, etc. In 2004, when India signed the Hawk jet trainer contract with the UK, the clause that there will be no US parts was inserted on Indias insistence which led to time and cost overruns.
As WikiLeaks has revealed, India had the word strategic removed from the text of the Defence Framework Agreement of 2005 with the US, so high was the level of distrust. India has evaded signing many of the several obligatory agreements going by difficult acronyms like CISMOA, BECA, SOFA, EUMA and so on which accompany high-tech equipment and convert a partnership into a de facto alliance relationship. They entail interoperability, end-user inspections and verifications and periodic certification on legitimate use of equipment and supplies.
Till 2005, India had acquired military supplies from the US worth less than $500 million which included 12 weapon-locating radars this one single deal taking 15 years to fructify after a tortuous scrutiny of Indias bona fides. Since then, the US has sold (or will sell) equipment worth $15 billion through the FMS route which ensures probity and transparency. The huge jump in US defence sales has turned the corner as far as reliability of American defence supplies is concerned.
Why have technical considerations alone trumped political and strategic imperatives of the MMRCA contract? The US Ambassador to India, Mr Timothy Roemer, who announced his resignation the day after the decision to reject the American bid, said, I am deeply disappointed but respect the selection process. Analysts believe awarding the contract to a European fighter is political balancing: The US has won $15 billion worth of contracts and Russia already hogs defence purchases and has been awarded the fifth generation fighter deal. So Europe is the obvious choice for spreading the largesse, given it has a first rate fourth generation aircraft.
The door seems to have been closed for American aircraft by not including the F18 in the short list which would have been politically correct and would also have recognised the White House missive. Maybe it was the presidential letter and the WikiLeaks cable indicating how craven Indian officials are with American diplomats. The Left has consistently accused the Manmohan Singh Government of having sold out to the US.
Ruling out US aircraft reflects strategic autonomy certainly, but the game could have been played more optimally by making it a three-horse race.
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