India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[SpArK]

I hope Brazil will be closely watching the news too..

 

[KS]

are you not buying other US puppies only - those puppies are quite a few in number btw ? Regardless of not choosing F 18 - fair enough - but US technology is also superior in many cases hence other military aircrafts have been chosen by MOD

For sure UK is a US puppy only but cant say the same for France or Germany or even for Italy.

What US technology offered is superior to those on offer on EFT/Rafale ? Nothing except maybe the APG 79. Even that is offset as the RBE-2 is operational in the Rafale and the Captor is in EFT.

India is also investing on 4.5 gen aircraft when 5th gen is really where it is at in the next decade(s)... there is a legitimate argument considering the price of these aircrafts that F 18 was the cheapest and had a pretty big bang for the buck - and to concentrate on spending the bigger buck on 5th gen acquisitions. I'm sure the MOD is capable of negotiating a TOT suits them. I'm baffled w/ you comment because you have several military aircrafts that have been negotiated for India... this is not one off ( transport aircrafts, helicopters, Naval recon aircrafts)

India is already in JV on a fifth gen with Russia and cost is not really a matter - atleast as far as critical techs are concerned.

Secondly technology and the associated sweeteners on offer in the case of EFT/Rafale is too good when compared with what the US is offering

Thirdly we are not ready to sign those endless ***MAs in order to access the US equipment.

Fourthly US has this strange habit of putting on sanction when least expected. You may argue that India/US are real homies now. But so were US-Pakistan for the most part of time. Heck the US was even colluding with the Chinese for some time and thought of propping them as a counterweight for USSR. What is the Guarentee that the same will not happen with India tomorrow ?
The Sea King fleet of the Indian Navy is amost always grounded due to lack of spares.

Fifthly the US is not reliable enough ,AT PRESENT , to trust them with the supply of Fighters - Transport a/c, patrol crafts,Helis etc which are important but not as critical as fighters for fighting a war are already given to the US.

Call it paranoia --- better safe than be sorry.

 

[koushik]

You should be playing around at 16...instead of all the virtual stealth talk..

Jokes apart...EF also has plans to put such system in place...i think it has some of those capabilities but not yet fully matured as Spectra....and ohhh some people say that Spectra has Active cancellation system OR software based stealth...no to take it away from Spectra, i think its full BS. Spectra is a RWR/Electronic warefare unit alebit a good one.

thanks so much for your advice but to let you know if am an under-19 player and i play cricket for Bengal in the Ranji Trophy.anyways thanx for correcting me regarding spectra

 

[jha]

Lets just speculate the reasons for which any of these can be rejected.. would be fun..

I'm Still shocked to see my two favorites not included in the list, But let me try..

RAFALE: Engine + Radar + French Arrogance + Costly Upgrades + Less capable METEOR

EF : Dependency on 4 countries + Procurement Cost + A2G capacity not fully developed ...

 

[SpArK]

Will they lift the ELTA.. AESA sanction now???

 

[anathema]

thanks so much for your advice but to let you know if am an under-19 player and i play cricket for Bengal in the Ranji Trophy.anyways thanx for correcting me regarding spectra

Congratulations ....that is brilliant....

---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

Will they lift the ELTA.. AESA sanction now???

What has ELTA AESA sanction gotto do with MRCA ?

---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

I'm Still shocked to see my two favorites not included in the list, But let me try..

RAFALE: Engine + Radar + French Arrogance + Costly Upgrades + Less capable METEOR

EF : Dependency on 4 countries + Procurement Cost + A2G capacity not fully developed ...

Can you elaborate on the Meteor part ? I seemed to have missed that news altogether.

 

[palash_kol]

Wish you all the best and take good care of Raffy's

Thats true.....maybe after 4 - 5 year India will start getting Rafale and koushik got his carrer in IAF. Bye the time he will be around 21 and also be eligible to marry Rafale.

 

[JayAtl]

For sure UK is a US puppy only but cant say the same for France or Germany or even for Italy.

What US technology offered is superior to those on offer on EFT/Rafale ? Nothing except maybe the APG 79. Even that is offset as the RBE-2 is operational in the Rafale and the Captor is in EFT.



India is already in JV on a fifth gen with Russia and cost is not really a matter - atleast as far as critical techs are concerned.

Secondly technology and the associated sweeteners on offer in the case of EFT/Rafale is too good when compared with what the US is offering

Thirdly we are not ready to sign those endless ***MAs in order to access the US equipment.

Fourthly US has this strange habit of putting on sanction when least expected. You may argue that India/US are real homies now. But so were US-Pakistan for the most part of time. Heck the US was even colluding with the Chinese for some time and thought of propping them as a counterweight for USSR. What is the Guarentee that the same will not happen with India tomorrow ?
The Sea King fleet of the Indian Navy is amost always grounded due to lack of spares.

Fifthly the US is not reliable enough ,AT PRESENT , to trust them with the supply of Fighters - Transport a/c, patrol crafts,Helis etc which are important but not as critical as fighters for fighting a war are already given to the US.

Call it paranoia --- better safe than be sorry.

If US sanctions then NATO sanctions. anyways my point was - you had this concern about TOT and I was well then, negotiate it! - just because a country has restrictions does not mean Indian purchasing power would not circumvent it. Lord sakes the US is the one who gave India the go ahead on reactor agreements without a NPT- it an indicator to me they have sufficient trust in India .

 

[KS]

I don't know if the TOT portion of negotiations has begun. I remember articles saying they were willing on TOT. but yeah, my point to Kartic was - when have those agreements hindered Indian MOD from negotiating. I guess when the MOD comes out with why others lost out it would state if TOT was an issue and if it was - hell yeah go with whomever is giving you the best buck.

On pricing was the EF not the most expensive of all aircrafts?

The current shortlist is purely based on technical parameters based on the competitive flight testing of all the contenders in the varied climes as prescribed by IAF ASQR.

The F-18 is reported to have failed in the high altitude trials in Leh.

If US sanctions then NATO sanctions.

Wrong --- 1999 Nuclear explosions.

The only two nations that supported us were France and Russia.

 

[SpArK]

Congratulations ....that is brilliant....



What has ELTA AESA sanction gotto do with MRCA ?

.

I dunno... i had a feeling they had a connection in the whole thing.

 

[SpArK]

Rafale's gonna win... considering the Saudi factor.

 

[jha]

You should be playing around at 16...instead of all the virtual stealth talk..

Jokes apart...EF also has plans to put such system in place...i think it has some of those capabilities but not yet fully matured as Spectra....and ohhh some people say that Spectra has Active cancellation system OR software based stealth...no to take it away from Spectra, i think its full BS. Spectra is a RWR/Electronic warefare unit alebit a good one.

They call it PIRATE which basically incorporates both FLIR and IRST capabilities . Once a target is tracked and identified, PIRATE can also cue a missile with High Off-boresight capability..
In addition to PIRATE , EF also has RWR + LWR +MAW.. All the data from these sensors are combined through AIS...

I guess SPECTRA is a combination of all the above sensors and is basically a package..Regarding the ACTIVE stealth- I find it too much to believe..

 

[JayAtl]

The current shortlist is purely based on technical parameters based on the competitive flight testing of all the contenders in the varied climes as prescribed by IAF ASQR.

The F-18 is reported to have failed in the high altitude trials in Leh.




Wrong --- 1999 Nuclear explosions.

The only two nations that supported us were France and Russia.

okay , will know tomorrow. now thats settled why don't you start a thread RAF VS EF benchmarks... pretty please for those who don't wanna hunt a million posts from the past.

 

[koushik]

The Eurofighter Typhøon is equipped PIRATE (Passive Infrared Search and Track Equipment) IRST Suite.the PIRATE operates in the band of 3-5 and 8-11 Macrometer.When it is along with the radar in the Air-to-Air mode it acts as an IRST and also helps provide target designation for Air-to-surface weapons.The PIRATE can also be used as a navigation device when its data is linked with the pilot's Helmet Mounted Sights.this gives the pilot great situational awareness.

 

[jha]

Rafale's gonna win... considering the Saudi factor.

UAE was considering RAFALE ( still is )...