India seeks Pak passageway for freight train service

[ramiz1236]

for those who try to compare and put India in better position...try to look at the standard of life of people of both sides...
Thanks to Allah in Pakistan people dont sleep on paths as much as India & people dont drive the bycyle to carry people which is a really bad truth of SHINNING INDIA

 

[Spring Onion]

The only reason for recent hostility between India-Pakistan is because of LeT's recent attacks in Mumbai. Even though there had been a number of terrorits attacks in many Indian cities before by LeT operatives, the relations were quiet smooth and Kashmir was almost resolved.

Then Musharraf lost power and then mumbai happened. Ofcourse there is a section in India that also doesn't want good relations with Pakistan and you have exmaples of the samjhuta express blasts for example.

Btw, Pakistan will also get access to huge consumer markets of India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan and possibly Indo china even. The consumer markets in Central Asia and Afghanistan are quite small in comparison

Kashmir was never resolved simple as that and it is the major casue of hostility.

And NO its not just the Mumbai attacks. But any attack in India other than in its Northeast, is blamed on Pakistan and Indian Orange media creates war like situation.

I remember last year when i was in India the Rajhistan blasts took place and virtually every Indian news channel within minutes of these blasts started beaming childish statements like "India should attack Pakistan for these blasts" although there was no clue yet that who was behind Rajhistan blasts and till this day still clueless.

So lets accept the reality that the two armed rivals have deficit of trust and it will continue so.
The core of all issues is Kashmir.

Indian must withdraw its occupational forces from Kashmir and we have no problem with India.

 

[EjazR]

For those posters who think linking up to access Indo-China and Bangladeshi markets (on top of the Indian markets) is of no use, you really have no idea of how Business is done.

Central Asia only energy resources but where will you sell your products. For example, textiles is an important export for Pakistan where it competes with China as well. Moreover, Pakistan will be diversifying its market instead of putting all eggs in one basket so to speak.

Sure you may have patriotic concerns, but lets look at these proposals on their merits. Im sure there will be many Indian right wingers (e.g. VHP//BD types) who would hate this idea as well. You don't really want to be clubbed with them on this issue.

 

[Iron_Eagle_17]

The first train from Islamabad reached Turkey last month. Check this thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/economy-development/31753-pakistan-turkey-rail-trial-starts.html

And ECO was established in 1985 by Pakistan, Iran, and Turkey for the purpose of promoting economic, technical and cultural cooperation among the Member States.

I found this picture on their website:

Leaders of Nations part of ECO:

The 10th ECO Summit held in Tehran, on 11th March, 2009
Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan are member states of the ECO.

Thanks for the info but still you know the progress in our area is so slow that some times I fear only my great great grandchildren would see the real prosperous pakistan.

 

[R.A.W.]

I think it would be good if the Pakistan agrees to it....

Else we have waterways which forms one of the major and the cheapest means of transport for goods in comparison to railways if the distance is far... But no way it would be economical to connect to Iran this way but middle east can easily be navigated in much cheaper way using water ways.

I dont think it would be bigger problem for India if Pakistan denies the rail link

 

[Aeri-Eye]

^Pakistan should only say 'yes' once India is ready to resolve Kashmir

I dont think it would be bigger problem for India if Pakistan denies the rail link

Wrong ! Maybe it wont be a bigger problem now but in future definately yes. India will need this train link and sooner or later India will realise, friendship with Pak is in India's interest.

And we would love to be friends with India but only if India is ready to negotiate on Kashmir issue.

 

[R.A.W.]

^Pakistan should only say 'yes' once India is ready to resolve Kashmir



Wrong ! Maybe it wont be a bigger problem now but in future definately yes. India will need this train link and sooner or later India will realise, friendship with Pak is in India's interest.

And we would love to be friends with India but only if India is ready to negotiate on Kashmir issue.

In longer terms it would be beneficial for India definitely... It would be cheaper to some countries. Even I am supporter of Indo Pak friendship.

There are certain issues apart from Kashmir which needs to be sorted out. Thorns are on the both side not just India.

 

[Comet]

I think it would be good if the Pakistan agrees to it....

Else we have waterways which forms one of the major and the cheapest means of transport for goods in comparison to railways if the distance is far... But no way it would be economical to connect to Iran this way but middle east can easily be navigated in much cheaper way using water ways.

I dont think it would be bigger problem for India if Pakistan denies the rail link

It wont be a Big Problem for India, but it will be A problem. Since, you have to first take goods to the port in India, carry them to Iran( or any other country), then load them on train there. All this will add cost to the transport.

 

[Spring Onion]

I think it would be good if the Pakistan agrees to it....

Else we have waterways which forms one of the major and the cheapest means of transport for goods in comparison to railways if the distance is far... But no way it would be economical to connect to Iran this way but middle east can easily be navigated in much cheaper way using water ways.

I dont think it would be bigger problem for India if Pakistan denies the rail link

And in all this cheap waterways you forgot its not viable viz viz Indian access to Afghanistan.

Hence, road, or railway passageway through Pakistan is the only way.

I wonder if the current government after getting grilled over flawed trade route to Afghanistan through Pakistan, is it again trying to sell Pakistani interests???

 

[R.A.W.]

And in all this cheap waterways you forgot its not viable viz viz Indian access to Afghanistan.

Hence, road, or railway passageway through Pakistan is the only way.

I wonder if the current government after getting grilled over flawed trade route to Afghanistan through Pakistan, is it again trying to sell Pakistani interests???

How is it going to hamper Pakistani interests?

 

[EjazR]

Kashmir was never resolved simple as that and it is the major casue of hostility.

And NO its not just the Mumbai attacks. But any attack in India other than in its Northeast, is blamed on Pakistan and Indian Orange media creates war like situation.

I remember last year when i was in India the Rajhistan blasts took place and virtually every Indian news channel within minutes of these blasts started beaming childish statements like "India should attack Pakistan for these blasts" although there was no clue yet that who was behind Rajhistan blasts and till this day still clueless.

So lets accept the reality that the two armed rivals have deficit of trust and it will continue so.
The core of all issues is Kashmir.

Indian must withdraw its occupational forces from Kashmir and we have no problem with India.

Well, the Kashmir peace process was still going on even though there were many attacks between 2001-2008. Many of them did have ties to LeT and Hizb, though some also did to Hindu extremists groups like Abhinac bharat.

Bu the mumbai attacks was so abonominable, vulgar and cowardly that it had to affect relations. Maybe LeT and their handlers were hoping for India to attack Pakistan so as to stop the ongoing operations against the TTP. Just a speculation, but ofcourse they failed.

About Kashmir, MMS and Musharraf had both said that they were close although had not complete the deal. Kashmiri sepratists were also involved.

You can read about it here http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/33976-discussion-five-point-formula-resolve-kashmir.html

 

[KSRaj]

It wont be a Big Problem for India, but it will be A problem. Since, you have to first take goods to the port in India, carry them to Iran( or any other country), then load them on train there. All this will add cost to the transport.

Absolutely right.
Same ways, it will be anything but "cheap" to use the Chinese route for Pakistan to access the South Asian and the 'ASEAN' countries. The transit cost through China will be huge!

 

[dbc]

And if you think Pakistan will suffer because India isn't involved then think again. The first train from Islamabad, Pakistan reached Istanbul, Turkey last month and Pakistan is now working on connecting China to the Pakistan-Iran-Turkey railway. Hey India can always build a rail link to Nepal or Bhutan

Omar, we've had this discussion before the rail link to China from Pakistan is estimated to cost over 10 billion USD and take 15 years to build, a 2008 report on the PRC ECCO website deems this link to be commercially unviable but goes on to say that it can be built for strategic reasons. The decision to build the Pak-China rail link will remain with the Chinese since the cost of building and maintaining the link is higher on the Chinese side, it is still uncertain if China will invest in a Pak-China link when an alternative link via Central Asia is available to China. There is some speculation that the Chinese are slowly losing interest in Gwadar due to this and other considerations.
The good news is Pakistan can still access China via Afghanistan, I’m anxious for Pakistan and Afghanistan to get into a mutually beneficial commercial relationship - it is crucial for long term peace and stability.

 

[Spitfighter]

India wants a rail link to Europe through Pakistan and Iran, theres no way India can work its way around that, have you even looked at the map.

India is stuck, theres no way India can have a rail link to Turkey without Pakistan's permission. India has only countries belonging to the subcontinent as its neighbors and China.

And if you think Pakistan will suffer because India isn't involved then think again. The first train from Islamabad, Pakistan reached Istanbul, Turkey last month and Pakistan is now working on connecting China to the Pakistan-Iran-Turkey railway. Hey India can always build a rail link to Nepal or Bhutan

Check this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/economy-development/31753-pakistan-turkey-rail-trial-starts.html

You shouldn't gloat over the billions of dollars Pakistan has denied itself over the years. Pakistan is already suffering, the opportunity cost is in the tens of billions, far more than Pakistan has had to borrow from the IMF.

By denying yourself access to one the worlds largest and fastest emerging markets, that is not only right next to you, but also the lack of language and cultural barriers, the potential for cooperation is huge.

Make no mistake, India isn't stuck. Have you looked at the map? notice India's huge coastline, merchant navy and relations with Iran. India has already built a huge port in Iran and will simply have to cover the Pakistani leg by sea. Not a best case scenario for India, sure. but can Pakistan do without money?

 

[khanz]

I say go for it more trade through pakistan means more money into the pakistani economy