India’s Operating System to be ready in 3 years: Saraswat

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

DRDO's projects are sanctioned by a joint committee of distinguished scientists who has spent a lifetime working for Indian scientific advancement. They projects are reviewed by Indian Defence heads and Bureaucratic and the Budget is allocated and sanctioned by professional Accounting body.

You must excuse my contempt for internet boys who think they know better than professionals who have spent their entire life doing what they do.

If multiple projects are sanctioned its because they are deemed necessary in the bigger scheme of things. This Big Picture is envisioned with an eye on the future and by accessing the present and studying the past.

DRDO labs also work within the bureaucratic system where they have to spend all the budget allocated to them or their funds will be reduced in the next year. This means that if they are unable to spend the money on productive projects ..they have to spend it on unnproductive projects too. This is one of the reasons ....they are multiple such practical reason.

For the Bureaucracy such budget allocation standard also follows a normalizing curve and is scientific way of budgeting huge spends.

There is a method to the 'madness' that you see in DRDO.......Just because you have limited ability to understand or see it does not mean DRDO is stupid...it just means someone else is ignorant.

No offense taken as long as the debate is kept civil and informative.

Everything what you've said might be effective on paper, but has any of this really helped the end users to the extent other R&D organizations have for the armed forces of their respective nations, namely IAF, IN and IA (granted, IAF and IA don't exactly have a hard on for quite a bit of what DRDO has offered, due to a myriad of reasons, some clear, some highly suspicious). Look we both agree that DRDO is an organization with limited funding, but with a lot of manpower, but IMO multiple projects drains those resources rapidly to the point that there is only so much one can do in any given fiscal year, till the funding for the next period is released. This in turn has an impact on the pace of the projects wouldn't you say? I hardly think anyone at DRDO is stupid, my issue is with the constant parading of project status reports on media channels that thrive on sensationalism and disregard for accuracy. Why the need for PR? Keep DRDO's projects as 'black' as possible, and then score on the success in the end. At the very very least, DRDO needs competition, otherwise where's the attempt to strive for excellence when you know that at the end of the day, you are guaranteed a paycheque from the people, no matter what to carry out your job.

 

[Ayush]

Saraswat OS? interesting...developed from Linux Kernel v2.68 ?
I only used uCOSII and Linux Kernel for embeded system development(ARM core), where can i download 'Sarawat'?

saraswat is the name(surname) of the doctor dude.not the OS.the name is not decided.

 

[mastaan]

You guys get too worked up too easily... This is not a news

A new OS (meaning the first one) means nothing new... The beauty is in the details and that is where i don't trust these loud mouths.... And if DRDO has just woken up to making their own OS then it is a cause of concern (which means that we are still using linux/windows and lotus notes/outlook etc currently, then we we are just kidding ourselves here) ...

One must remember that most of the world's IT/Networking/global standards and protocol innovations came through from US defense research... So, it is not about just a $exy OS only, but the strength of its architecture, the backbone networks, their back-ups, their encryption capabilities (and the world is already on the moon at that subject) and most importantly, execution abilities... we suck at all of that! All you will see is copy paste jobs on kernels, compilers, APIs (even class definitions would be standard ones, i bet) and GUI would be windows 95 calibre

If our 'premier defense research establishment' is saying, oh look, we also 'WILL' have an OS (which means that it is mostly basic, single layered architecture, as we might just be starting up) and looking at our incredible lameness at lack of ability in developing solid and saleable software products... then, my friends, this is not a news... Just another loudmouth farting for his few minutes of glory before he retires. I am sorry, but if we don't realize their capabilities by now, then we are fooling ourselves...

Anyone ever heard CIA or US DoD harping about the technological gifts they and their universities have given to the world?... No? enough said!

 

[Aphex]

You guys get too worked up too easily... This is not a news

A new OS (meaning the first one) means nothing new... The beauty is in the details and that is where i don't trust these loud mouths.... And if DRDO has just woken up to making their own OS then it is a cause of concern (which means that we are still using linux/windows and lotus notes/outlook etc currently, then we we are just kidding ourselves here) ...

One must remember that most of the world's IT/Networking/global standards and protocol innovations came through from US defense research... So, it is not about just a $exy OS only, but the strength of its architecture, the backbone networks, their back-ups, their encryption capabilities (and the world is already on the moon at that subject) and most importantly, execution abilities... we suck at all of that! All you will see is copy paste jobs on kernels, compilers, APIs (even class definitions would be standard ones, i bet) and GUI would be windows 95 calibre

If our 'premier defense research establishment' is saying, oh look, we also 'WILL' have an OS (which means that it is mostly basic, single layered architecture, as we might just be starting up) and looking at our incredible lameness at lack of ability in developing solid and saleable software products... then, my friends, this is not a news... Just another loudmouth farting for his few minutes of glory before he retires. I am sorry, but if we don't realize their capabilities by now, then we are fooling ourselves...

Anyone ever heard CIA or US DoD harping about the technological gifts they and their universities have given to the world?... No? enough said!

Your little pessimistic. There is a reason we are called the IT powerhouse and I will be optimistic and say that it will be full blown OS, sure it isn't going to be a pretty OS, you would know how some IT company OS's are terrible looking, but they get the Job down, our encryption are going to be fully optimized. Escpecially since we hired over 5000 people for cyber security. It is people like you who have know imaginative thinking that has sunk us for many years.

 

[mastaan]

Your little pessimistic. There is a reason we are called the IT powerhouse and I will be optimistic and say that it will be full blown OS, sure it isn't going to be a pretty OS, you would know how some IT company OS's are terrible looking, but they get the Job down, our encryption are going to be fully optimized. Escpecially since we hired over 5000 people for cyber security. It is people like you who have know imaginative thinking that has sunk us for many years.

I know I sound like a non-nationalist and pessimistic and you sound like the real optimistic nationalist... I won't dissect your ravings because, it's just too generic... But let me give you two pointers and you can then draw your inferences...

1. Let's be fair and transparent about our real IT capability, so far as products are concerned... Infy, TCS, Wipro, HCL and CTS form this face of so called IT powerhouse that we are... Read up about them & their business models and ask yourself, if we really have 'ever' shown a world class product to the world? You may say Finnacle, but I am talking about the league of IOS, Windows, Android, SAP, Oracle blah blah blah... Even Java, that was done by an indian in part, was done in silicon valley... What about protocols, international standards? How do our satellites connect with our households? how many of those radio, ethernet network or any other transmission protocols have ever developed outside US? Encryption is not only about a 120 or 512 bit secure code, it is about ensuring system integrity and stability... We still use Pascal and Fotran generation in our nuclear installations and you are talking about a new OS? ... Employment of 1000s of engineers at Govt pay grade will not and does not make us an AT&T bell labs or Caltech... Period!

2. Let's also become clear about what will it take for us to reach there... Answer is very simple.. An ecosystem of enterpreneurship, research and realism! We are developing and a lot of good work is happening, but count me 10 stock exchange listed Indian IT product companies and you will be as much ashamed as I am... We are at least 20 years from that kind of maturity, which is required to make a fail-safe IT capability.. You can not continue to assume 'ceteris paribus' while we learn...

I would love to see the world from the same glasses as you do. And don't go on nationalist rant, because my brother just left a growing career in Genetics in State and has started his small research shop in India and I would do the same in few years. I don't mean to dry talk and I actually have my own small plan to contribute back in my limited small way.. But, I refuse to live in those 'ivory towers' under hope of our IT powerhouse thingy and 1000s of people working on a thing... I am a realist and trust you me, I am not a 20 year old typing out of my frustration... I have seen enough, worked with the right quality and i can fight on raw statistics with you and the conclusion will be that 'We are on the right path. But, the target is too far and we are bloody slow and very inefficient - and I am a part of that crowd (not just pointing fingers)'

 

[zaxcolix]

No offense taken as long as the debate is kept civil and informative.

Everything what you've said might be effective on paper, but has any of this really helped the end users to the extent other R&D organizations have for the armed forces of their respective nations, namely IAF, IN and IA (granted, IAF and IA don't exactly have a hard on for quite a bit of what DRDO has offered, due to a myriad of reasons, some clear, some highly suspicious). Look we both agree that DRDO is an organization with limited funding, but with a lot of manpower, but IMO multiple projects drains those resources rapidly to the point that there is only so much one can do in any given fiscal year, till the funding for the next period is released. This in turn has an impact on the pace of the projects wouldn't you say? I hardly think anyone at DRDO is stupid, my issue is with the constant parading of project status reports on media channels that thrive on sensationalism and disregard for accuracy. Why the need for PR? Keep DRDO's projects as 'black' as possible, and then score on the success in the end. At the very very least, DRDO needs competition, otherwise where's the attempt to strive for excellence when you know that at the end of the day, you are guaranteed a paycheque from the people, no matter what to carry out your job.

India is open and transparent. If you don't like it, you are free to live in china (if they would take you) where everything is hidden and 'black' and where 'show' of success is used for propaganda (...no one knows if the success is really true).

To achieve excellence competition is not required. Excellence is its own reward.......if you don't understand this concept there is a movie called '3 Idiots' which can help you understand this. Movie was made for people like you so chances are you will enjoy it.

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

India is open and transparent. If you don't like it, you are free to live in china (if they would take you) where everything is hidden and 'black' and where 'show' of success is used for propaganda (...no one knows if the success is really true).

To achieve excellence competition is not required. Excellence is its own reward.......if you don't understand this concept there is a movie called '3 Idiots' which can help you understand this. Movie was made for people like you so chances are you will enjoy it.

Well, we obviously have contrasting standpoints that we're not willing to budge from. As for 3 idiots, seen it. Yet IMO the 'strive for excellence' is next to non existent in DRDO.

 

[Aphex]

I know I sound like a non-nationalist and pessimistic and you sound like the real optimistic nationalist... I won't dissect your ravings because, it's just too generic... But let me give you two pointers and you can then draw your inferences...

1. Let's be fair and transparent about our real IT capability, so far as products are concerned... Infy, TCS, Wipro, HCL and CTS form this face of so called IT powerhouse that we are... Read up about them & their business models and ask yourself, if we really have 'ever' shown a world class product to the world? You may say Finnacle, but I am talking about the league of IOS, Windows, Android, SAP, Oracle blah blah blah... Even Java, that was done by an indian in part, was done in silicon valley... What about protocols, international standards? How do our satellites connect with our households? how many of those radio, ethernet network or any other transmission protocols have ever developed outside US? Encryption is not only about a 120 or 512 bit secure code, it is about ensuring system integrity and stability... We still use Pascal and Fotran generation in our nuclear installations and you are talking about a new OS? ... Employment of 1000s of engineers at Govt pay grade will not and does not make us an AT&T bell labs or Caltech... Period!

2. Let's also become clear about what will it take for us to reach there... Answer is very simple.. An ecosystem of enterpreneurship, research and realism! We are developing and a lot of good work is happening, but count me 10 stock exchange listed Indian IT product companies and you will be as much ashamed as I am... We are at least 20 years from that kind of maturity, which is required to make a fail-safe IT capability.. You can not continue to assume 'ceteris paribus' while we learn...

I would love to see the world from the same glasses as you do. And don't go on nationalist rant, because my brother just left a growing career in Genetics in State and has started his small research shop in India and I would do the same in few years. I don't mean to dry talk and I actually have my own small plan to contribute back in my limited small way.. But, I refuse to live in those 'ivory towers' under hope of our IT powerhouse thingy and 1000s of people working on a thing... I am a realist and trust you me, I am not a 20 year old typing out of my frustration... I have seen enough, worked with the right quality and i can fight on raw statistics with you and the conclusion will be that 'We are on the right path. But, the target is too far and we are bloody slow and very inefficient - and I am a part of that crowd (not just pointing fingers)'

All those world class products you talk about are not made in a day. They have been in the field for decades of years and have gained knowledge. DRDO is no way in hell are they going to make this the best OS, but it will be learning experience and they can use that to improve on it. All those companies would be nothing if there weren't Chinese and indian programmers. You think the CEO thinks of products like that, no they hire people to think for them. All these big companies they buy all these smaller companies in other countires and take there software and systems and so on. In any country except US there is very little chance to make a world class product. The only three countires that kinda can are UK, Japan and South Korea. Plus this is not about creating a world class OS for everyone to use, it is strictly for the governments network, if we used Linux or windows or apple's OS it would be to familiar to the average hacker. We could add encryptions but still in OS like this it is going to he easy to find a detour into the system networks. Now if no one except government workers know how the OS looks and how it operates it will be extremely difficult to hack.

 

[mastaan]

All those world class products you talk about are not made in a day. They have been in the field for decades of years and have gained knowledge. DRDO is no way in hell are they going to make this the best OS, but it will be learning experience and they can use that to improve on it. All those companies would be nothing if there weren't Chinese and indian programmers.

Aphex, I get your intentions are well meaning and I am with you that it takes time and toil... My worry is, if we have that discipline for the toil...

BTW, If it was not for Indian engineers, it would have been Indonesian or Ghanian engineers... We just supplied talent to a severly crunched demand-supply equation. Free markets operate in an awesome way to ensure that their needs are fulfilled

You think the CEO thinks of products like that, no they hire people to think for them. All these big companies they buy all these smaller companies in other countires and take there software and systems and so on.

Though off topic, I can share some perspective here... I don't agree and what you say is in-correct. I work with CEOs and have read and seen enough examples. I quote a few. When Microsoft was making windows, when apple made IOS or Pixar made the graphics engines, or when oracle was started by ellison or when GE was building their famed gas engine and service offerings... CEOs PERSONALLY led those initiatives! It is for additional functionality that companies buy companies, to 'top-up' (if you may) the base capability.

On the OS question... Let's chat about it in a few years, as our discussion would just be on rhetoric today. My current bet is that DRDO is just making a 'variant' of an existing bunch of OS and compilers and nothing more. They don't have the competence to do more. For more, they need some solid product knowledge private companies (legends like northropp or boeing and their ilks have their own OSs and have specific black project departments, but they took decades to get there) or some VERY well funded universities (which we don't have to the required extent).

But, yes, 10 years of a central Govt giving free hand to private enterprise, we will see changes happening... If that is not done, there is no way, we will develop reliable and indigenous stuff... peace now !