tvsram1992
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Indo Russian friendship is beyond buyer - seller...
India, Russia mulling close defence cooperation
- Thread starter Invincible INDIAN
- Start date
Russia lacks any Fith gen tech....oh you are talking about the PAKFA?...
Pakfa does not meet 5th gen standards like, DSI intakes, single canopy, RAM..
lepziboy
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Russia lacks any Fith gen tech....oh you are talking about the PAKFA?...
not you again.stop comparing your j-20 with pak fa.no need to compare until both planes are not out!hate little immature kids!
I'll leave now
rajusri
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There is no stealth version of MMRCA. This is already developed. Rafale is semi-stealth fighter.
prototype
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strategic partner ? how? wasnt it more like buyer and seller relation . even in the 80s during first Afghan war it was India who needed Russia for exploding bombs in Pakistan more than Russia needed India for anything .
so what strategic partnership you are talking about with regards to India
Hmm clearly it indicates your knowledge about Indo-Russian relation's are clearly to weak,and the line you used here seems to be the one leased from the Chinese guys here.
So what make this relation more than just a buyer seller,at the best strategic,some of them are
Most prominently,Russia is the only country which had continuously blocked every resolution against India in UNSC,each and every time.
Entering a virtual military pact with India.
India having first hand access to every top Russian technology,which was only the privilege provided to India.
India currently funding almost all major Russian defense projects.
India is the only foreign partner involved in the GLONASS project.
Finally India did not sought Russia to bomb Pakistan,please do not exaggerate your importance,dont think the world revolve around you and whatever we do is not done keeping Pakistan in mind,Pakistan is only one card kept at a corner in the huge Indian box.
GUNS-N- ROSES
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u think FGFA isnt big enough?
GUNS-N- ROSES
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so what strategic partnership you are talking about with regards to India
i wonder if we r exploding bombs in pakistan since 80s, why it still cant highlight it in front of the world.
tvsram1992
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RAM's are not generally used in prototypes instead they are concentrated on testing avionics , maneuverability and tactical capacity of plane. When they use RAM's on real plane that will make them massively stealthy.Russia lacks any Fith gen tech....oh you are talking about the PAKFA?...
Russia having decades of experience in building aircrafts have no 5g tech?
Then we should wait china to develop a 5g plane for 40 years. and more over J20 is a 4.5 g plane.
Black Widow
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Russia lacks any Fith gen tech....oh you are talking about the PAKFA?...
Look who is saying... Who the hell told you that DSI is required for stealth??? Go and read Gambit and russian post, you mayt get some knowledge...
@RAM: who told you that Russia doesn't have RAM ??? Do you even know what is Stealth capabilities???
1. VLO : achieved thru design,RAM (not DSI Dumbo), Jammers, Plasma etc..
2. Super-maneuverability : Achieved thru design, TV, cancard etc
3. Radar: Preferably AESA (but not necessary) or any powerful radar..
4. Supercruise: design and powerful engine..
I don't know if you are chinese or pakistani...
If you are chinies then don't forget that you learnt how to walk, from russia...
If you are Pakistani, first learn to crawl, then think to walk...
If russians have claimed that they will deliver 5th gen fighter plane, they will do the same, they have good experience, much more than India or china...
luckyyy
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buit there is nothing beyond it...
Feluda
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I found this article in one of the Russian blog.i hope this has not posted before.
Interview With AL-41F Chief Designer
In Russian Parliament sponsored 'Russia Today' journal (May, 2011) a new interview with Victor Chepkin was published. He first time reported about the difference between 'izdelie-117S' and 'izdelie-117' engines for new fighters. Then he didnt give interviews almost 3 years.
Chepkin Victor M. - is the doctor of technical sciences, professor, General Designer, the first deputy general director of NPO Saturn, on research and development projects, advisor to the Director of Lulka design buraue.
After graduating the Moscow Aviation Institute in 1957, he was sent to the Perm Motors design Bureau , where he worked as a design engineer and latter - the chief designer. He was the chief designer of the outstanding improvement on their engine, "D-30F6" for the world's fastest fighter-interceptor MiG-31 ". In 1980 Viktor Mikhailovich worked as Deputy Minister of Aviation Industry of the USSR.
Under his leadership, design , finishing work and conducted official testing of turbojet engine "AL-31F was successfully completed . Victor M. spearheaded the creation of a turbojet engine of the fifth generation, AL 41F and modernization of the AL-31F.
I have translated only those parts of the interview which are relevant to PAK FA issue.
Q - Since United Engine Corporation been formed , 5 th generation Fighter T-50 " climbed into the sky and is undergoing flight tests , the first Superjet already been transferred to commercial airlines ... What in your opinion the most important changes occurred in the Russian aviation industry during this period (3 years) that we acquired, and what can be lost?
A - The main thing in my opinion, is that joint efforts succeeded in stopping the fall of the industry. This required the efforts of many, first and foremost, I would note Mikhail Pogosyan and Eugene Marchukov - the General Designer of the engine for the T-50.
For military aircraft, we have created two engines - one for the aircraft, like Su-35 ", the second - for the Russian aircraft 5 th generation of T-50". The first - is "117C" - is mainly intended for export. He is more simple in terms of aerodynamics, and most importantly - targeted for aircraft with conventional arms, suspended on pylons outside the fuselage, with no strong constraints on dimensions. Such schemes fro example are used on 4-th generation aircrafts , exported to India and Malaysia.
The second engine - is "117" - though only differ by one letter in the title, much more advanced engine - this is a real engine of the 5-th generation. From the rivals can sometimes be heard the 5-th generation engine should be with such a blade, such and such materials, high-speed rotors, and you do not have this ... None of this is all just ways of achieving the goal. A single goal - increasing specific thrust, ie the ratio of thrust to its weight. For example, the first jet engine Arkhip Mikhailovich Lulka weighed 1350 kg and had the same thrust, that is, its specific thrust is equal to 1. The 4 th generation engine , "AL-31F, has already managed to achieve specific thrust of 8.7, and on a 5 th generation, the figure is 10.
The new engine delivers a supersonic speed without afterburner mode. What it gives? If before the fighter was flying to the target with the speed of 700 km / h, now - it is twice as fast.
Our "117" today is already flying on two T-50s. For the company it is quite a major achievement, a large move forward. Although it never was easy. We also have new ideas, we can boast some good groundwork. What is needed in the field of military aviation - the beginning of this mass production? To protect such a large country like ours, from a serious attack the number as 500-1000 aircrafts is needed . For this needed orders, money, production infrastructure.
Q - What are the new challenges encountered when creating the plane 5 th generation?
A - There are thousand problems to solve . Say, for reducing the radar visibility "T-50 has a scheme with an internal arrangement of weapons, so is becoming increasingly important problem of reducing its size. And that means new weaponry has to be developed and put into service , but since it has low volume, it must be highly accurate. It is therefore necessarily need a fully functional GLONASS. The American GPS, for obvious reasons is not suitable, since in times of crisis they will disable it, like during the Ossetian-Georgian war, would impose an artificial shift in the coordinates of 300 km. Also is needed to be known exactly, how do you shoot, so should be a modern mapping system. The missile itself should be stealthy . Such weapons are now manufactured, and all this affects the design of the engine. The work is proceeding according to plans ... In general, in my opinion, the plane turns out good, no worse than the American "F-22".
Q - By the way, if we compare the T-50 "with the" F-22 ", Western sources say that the T-50" is much behind in infrared engine visibility in the rear hemisphere.
A - We're working very intensely, to reduce the infrared and radar visibility, and were twice as better performance in comparison with the "F-22" (at least for those data that are published and which I have).
Q - In the difficult years for the Russian aircraft industry, aircraft building companies that produced military aircraft survived by exports, especially in China and India. Today, the Chinese have copied our Su-27 "and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. Not whether as a result we lose our traditional markets of combat aircraft?
A - We dont, because such an aircraft as we have, the Chinese have no and will have no in visible prospective. They say that they have made a 5-th generation plane, but one can say anything ... Their best engine was copied from our "AL-31F. And we produce 5-th generation engines , and they are in all of their parameters of thrust, specific fuel consumption correspond to the 5-th generation. I opened the secret and say that we actually already have two 5-th generation engines. The second, which is now conventionally called the "Type 30", has already been tested in flight on the fighter T-50 ". In the future it probably will give the name of "AL-...." According to its parameters it a 15-25 percent better than "117 th".
Q - You can hear that the 5 th generation engine of a plane is not as important as its electronic filling ...
A - If you compare the share of the motor and electronics to provide the functionality of combat fighter, then I, as you know, though being a minder and a patriot of the industry, yet I must admit that electronics "weighs" is much higher. Without a doubt. That's why a little better, or slightly worse engine - has no special meaning. But, if the engine parameters are much better, as we have done on the "117" (25 percent), the performance characteristics can be seriously improved, even due to increasing the allowed weight of the aircraft.
Interview With AL-41F Chief Designer
In Russian Parliament sponsored 'Russia Today' journal (May, 2011) a new interview with Victor Chepkin was published. He first time reported about the difference between 'izdelie-117S' and 'izdelie-117' engines for new fighters. Then he didnt give interviews almost 3 years.
Chepkin Victor M. - is the doctor of technical sciences, professor, General Designer, the first deputy general director of NPO Saturn, on research and development projects, advisor to the Director of Lulka design buraue.
After graduating the Moscow Aviation Institute in 1957, he was sent to the Perm Motors design Bureau , where he worked as a design engineer and latter - the chief designer. He was the chief designer of the outstanding improvement on their engine, "D-30F6" for the world's fastest fighter-interceptor MiG-31 ". In 1980 Viktor Mikhailovich worked as Deputy Minister of Aviation Industry of the USSR.
Under his leadership, design , finishing work and conducted official testing of turbojet engine "AL-31F was successfully completed . Victor M. spearheaded the creation of a turbojet engine of the fifth generation, AL 41F and modernization of the AL-31F.
I have translated only those parts of the interview which are relevant to PAK FA issue.
Q - Since United Engine Corporation been formed , 5 th generation Fighter T-50 " climbed into the sky and is undergoing flight tests , the first Superjet already been transferred to commercial airlines ... What in your opinion the most important changes occurred in the Russian aviation industry during this period (3 years) that we acquired, and what can be lost?
A - The main thing in my opinion, is that joint efforts succeeded in stopping the fall of the industry. This required the efforts of many, first and foremost, I would note Mikhail Pogosyan and Eugene Marchukov - the General Designer of the engine for the T-50.
For military aircraft, we have created two engines - one for the aircraft, like Su-35 ", the second - for the Russian aircraft 5 th generation of T-50". The first - is "117C" - is mainly intended for export. He is more simple in terms of aerodynamics, and most importantly - targeted for aircraft with conventional arms, suspended on pylons outside the fuselage, with no strong constraints on dimensions. Such schemes fro example are used on 4-th generation aircrafts , exported to India and Malaysia.
The second engine - is "117" - though only differ by one letter in the title, much more advanced engine - this is a real engine of the 5-th generation. From the rivals can sometimes be heard the 5-th generation engine should be with such a blade, such and such materials, high-speed rotors, and you do not have this ... None of this is all just ways of achieving the goal. A single goal - increasing specific thrust, ie the ratio of thrust to its weight. For example, the first jet engine Arkhip Mikhailovich Lulka weighed 1350 kg and had the same thrust, that is, its specific thrust is equal to 1. The 4 th generation engine , "AL-31F, has already managed to achieve specific thrust of 8.7, and on a 5 th generation, the figure is 10.
The new engine delivers a supersonic speed without afterburner mode. What it gives? If before the fighter was flying to the target with the speed of 700 km / h, now - it is twice as fast.
Our "117" today is already flying on two T-50s. For the company it is quite a major achievement, a large move forward. Although it never was easy. We also have new ideas, we can boast some good groundwork. What is needed in the field of military aviation - the beginning of this mass production? To protect such a large country like ours, from a serious attack the number as 500-1000 aircrafts is needed . For this needed orders, money, production infrastructure.
Q - What are the new challenges encountered when creating the plane 5 th generation?
A - There are thousand problems to solve . Say, for reducing the radar visibility "T-50 has a scheme with an internal arrangement of weapons, so is becoming increasingly important problem of reducing its size. And that means new weaponry has to be developed and put into service , but since it has low volume, it must be highly accurate. It is therefore necessarily need a fully functional GLONASS. The American GPS, for obvious reasons is not suitable, since in times of crisis they will disable it, like during the Ossetian-Georgian war, would impose an artificial shift in the coordinates of 300 km. Also is needed to be known exactly, how do you shoot, so should be a modern mapping system. The missile itself should be stealthy . Such weapons are now manufactured, and all this affects the design of the engine. The work is proceeding according to plans ... In general, in my opinion, the plane turns out good, no worse than the American "F-22".
Q - By the way, if we compare the T-50 "with the" F-22 ", Western sources say that the T-50" is much behind in infrared engine visibility in the rear hemisphere.
A - We're working very intensely, to reduce the infrared and radar visibility, and were twice as better performance in comparison with the "F-22" (at least for those data that are published and which I have).
Q - In the difficult years for the Russian aircraft industry, aircraft building companies that produced military aircraft survived by exports, especially in China and India. Today, the Chinese have copied our Su-27 "and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. Not whether as a result we lose our traditional markets of combat aircraft?
A - We dont, because such an aircraft as we have, the Chinese have no and will have no in visible prospective. They say that they have made a 5-th generation plane, but one can say anything ... Their best engine was copied from our "AL-31F. And we produce 5-th generation engines , and they are in all of their parameters of thrust, specific fuel consumption correspond to the 5-th generation. I opened the secret and say that we actually already have two 5-th generation engines. The second, which is now conventionally called the "Type 30", has already been tested in flight on the fighter T-50 ". In the future it probably will give the name of "AL-...." According to its parameters it a 15-25 percent better than "117 th".
Q - You can hear that the 5 th generation engine of a plane is not as important as its electronic filling ...
A - If you compare the share of the motor and electronics to provide the functionality of combat fighter, then I, as you know, though being a minder and a patriot of the industry, yet I must admit that electronics "weighs" is much higher. Without a doubt. That's why a little better, or slightly worse engine - has no special meaning. But, if the engine parameters are much better, as we have done on the "117" (25 percent), the performance characteristics can be seriously improved, even due to increasing the allowed weight of the aircraft.
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