What's new

India rupee ban: Currency move is 'bad economics'

Ask yourself how often do you buy something that is worth more than 50k. It can be purchased by cheque, credit/debit card, net banking or demand draft etc. Normally its not easy to always carry so much amount in person. Except land/real estate and jewellery everything which values more than 50k is not purchased by a person who does not have a bank account. Poor people dont buy jewellery in one go and land deals too is a rare affair for which some method can be found out to avoid harassment to poor people.

If cash transactions are discouraged then demand for big notes will be reduced. Why people are facing problem today is because there is not much small denomination notes in circulation and this is affecting the economy as the sale of daily consummables have reduced drastically for the lack of currency. Can you imagine if 125 crore people stop spending Rs.100 per day that they were spending earlier because of lack of currency then the economy loses 12,500 crores per day and in just 50 days India's economy loses 6,25,000 crore. In dollar terms our economy loses 100 billion dollars in just 2 months.

While I am all for cleaning our system and appreciate demonetization for good but if its done without planning then people will be free to call it a tughlaqi farman. You know that Mohd Tughlaq's intent and idea was fantastic to move the capital to Doulatabad from Delhi but lack of planning and poor execution made the move very stupid. The British change the capital from Calcutta to New Delhi and it was a successful move.

Agreed...but this was an excellent move that enabled at least 80% rural population has means to deposit

Here I meant that a situation should have been avoided for the exchange of cash. People should be allowed to only deposit their old cash in their accounts and withdrawal will be a separate thing and a debit card will make it easier with ATMs after caliberation on day one would be dispensing only rs.100 notes. Today they are getting 2000 rs bill which no one is accepting as they dont have change. Cabbies are not able to make money. people instead of asking a cabbie for a destination they ask if they have 2000 rs change to go to a place. Many people are not buying vegetables, restaurants and chaatwalas business are completely derailed.

Such a fantastic and bold economic step is being accused of being an unwise move because the govt. did it without much planning or failed to anticipate its magnitude.
 
.
Ask yourself how often do you buy something that is worth more than 50k. It can be purchased by cheque, credit/debit card, net banking or demand draft etc. Normally its not easy to always carry so much amount in person. Except land/real estate and jewellery everything which values more than 50k is not purchased by a person who does not have a bank account. Poor people dont buy jewellery in one go and land deals too is a rare affair for which some method can be found out to avoid harassment to poor people.

If cash transactions are discouraged then demand for big notes will be reduced. Why people are facing problem today is because there is not much small denomination notes in circulation and this is affecting the economy as the sale of daily consummables have reduced drastically for the lack of currency. Can you imagine if 125 crore people stop spending Rs.100 per day that they were spending earlier because of lack of currency then the economy loses 12,500 crores per day and in just 50 days India's economy loses 6,25,000 crore. In dollar terms our economy loses 100 billion dollars in just 2 months.

While I am all for cleaning our system and appreciate demonetization for good but if its done without planning then people will be free to call it a tughlaqi farman. You know that Mohd Tughlaq's intent and idea was fantastic to move the capital to Doulatabad from Delhi but lack of planning and poor execution made the move very stupid. The British change the capital from Calcutta to New Delhi and it was a successful move

Point is, problems are not the official transactions that are happening in shops.
The problem ALWAYS was the unaccounted transactions that happen all the time for which tax is not paid. This becomes part of black money.

There is no way to stop the unaccounted transactions unless you ban the big notes like Modi did and that too with out giving any notice.
Even with the shortest possible time given, people found a way to dispose some of their black money!!

The other points about encouraging cashless transactions, I am all for it. ANd I believe this govt more than any other has been striving towards that.

I believe you are being unfair when you give analogy of Thuglaq. Simply because for the last 2 years they have done numerous things that lead to this. It was not like Modi woke one fine moring and decided to ban it.

Again, you see saying things could have been done better for demonetization without explaining the "DETAILS". the generic institutional ones are alright but they take way too much time in Indian system.

This is as good as it would ever get.

Either you let the corrupt people have their way OR
you make them pay and the common folk will suffer for few days.
 
.
Understand this. 500 and 1000 rupee notes formed 86% of total value of Indian currency.
There was no way 100 rupee notes could have made a dent in substituting the enormous volume, hence the 2000 rupee note.

There is no need to substitute. All the old currency gets deposited in the bank accounts. Period!
People will have only small denominations for their daily expenses. Any big value sale can happen through banking system.
Today I can go and buy a car by issuing a cheque but I cant buy vegetables or take a taxi because i don't have change money. I can go to a big restaurant and use credit card for an expensive meals but I am not able to buy from the road side eatery. My regular fisher woman was crying that no one is buying her fish as people are saving the currency for only essentials. So its not the rich people who are suffering its the people who use low denomination currencies and because of current situation the circulation is further shrinking. Lack of small notes affect the economy and hurt people but lack of big notes does not affect anyone except currency hoarders. We don't need 2000 or 1000 denomination notes in our system if we want to do away with black money.
 
.
Here I meant that a situation should have been avoided for the exchange of cash. People should be allowed to only deposit their old cash in their accounts and withdrawal will be a separate thing and a debit card will make it easier with ATMs after caliberation on day one would be dispensing only rs.100 notes. Today they are getting 2000 rs bill which no one is accepting as they dont have change. Cabbies are not able to make money. people instead of asking a cabbie for a destination they ask if they have 2000 rs change to go to a place. Many people are not buying vegetables, restaurants and chaatwalas business are completely derailed.

Such a fantastic and bold economic step is being accused of being an unwise move because the govt. did it without much planning or failed to anticipate its magnitude.

People are being asked to deposit their cash.
For example, you can go and deposit 10 crores of your cash but you can only withdraw limited amount in cash. The cashless transactions, checks and online payments are not affected by this. Only cash.
So, I am not why u want to point this out when this is exactly what's happening on ground.

And no...500 and 1000 rupees are deliberately being delayed for a reason. That's where the "necessary suffering" part comes in.

There is no need to substitute. All the old currency gets deposited in the bank accounts. Period!
People will have only small denominations for their daily expenses. Any big value sale can happen through banking system.
Today I can go and buy a car by issuing a cheque but I cant buy vegetables or take a taxi because i don't have change money. I can go to a big restaurant and use credit card for an expensive meals but I am not able to buy from the road side eatery. My regular fisher woman was crying that no one is buying her fish as people are saving the currency for only essentials. So its not the rich people who are suffering its the people who use low denomination currencies and because of current situation the circulation is further shrinking. Lack of small notes affect the economy and hurt people but lack of big notes does not affect anyone except currency hoarders. We don't need 2000 or 1000 denomination notes in our system if we want to do away with black money.

Madam, this is exactly what this govt is working towards.
All steps taken from day one was to encourage cashless transactions.

And this demonetization step is NOT the final step.

Finally, don't get too attached to the 2000 rupee note...there are more surprises in store ;)
I believe you will get your wish of more lower denominations and lesser higher with emphasis on cashless transactions.
 
.
Point is, problems are not the official transactions that are happening in shops.
The problem ALWAYS was the unaccounted transactions that happen all the time for which tax is not paid. This becomes part of black money.

There is no way to stop the unaccounted transactions unless you ban the big notes like Modi did and that too with out giving any notice.
Even with the shortest possible time given, people found a way to dispose some of their black money!!

The other points about encouraging cashless transactions, I am all for it. ANd I believe this govt more than any other has been striving towards that.

I believe you are being unfair when you give analogy of Thuglaq. Simply because for the last 2 years they have done numerous things that lead to this. It was not like Modi woke one fine moring and decided to ban it.

Again, you see saying things could have been done better for demonetization without explaining the "DETAILS". the generic institutional ones are alright but they take way too much time in Indian system.

This is as good as it would ever get.

Either you let the corrupt people have their way OR
you make them pay and the common folk will suffer for few days.

There is nothing personal here against Modi or the government. Its not necessary to agree 100% with a government decision. Demonetization scheme is like fencing a yard of sheeps either you fence it 100% or there is no point in it. Do you know how corrupt people function..... they are expert in finding loop holes in the system. All these people who are queueing up are carrying the black money on behalf of some people. His job is to keep exchanging the notes as much as he can. Worst the co-operative banks that are run mostly by politicians are the best place to exchange the black currency and they are happy to have 2000 rs notes. There system is such that they can do even back dated entries which nationalized or private banks can not. The only point I want to make is that demonetization is a fantastic step and should be used wisely and effectively to not allow any loop holes. If, for instance, this scheme can get rid of 10 lakh crores of black money and the poor implementation of scheme lets half of it get filtered into the system and then this makes a negative impact on our economy to the tune of rs. 6 lakh crores then end result will be negative. And this is avoidable negative. In my first post on this thread I mentioned that this scheme is not going to touch big politicians, bureaucrats and industrialsts who perhaps account for 80% of the black money in India. I still hope and pray that this scheme turns out to be successful and does not repeat 1978 demonetization.
 
.
There is nothing personal here against Modi or the government. Its not necessary to agree 100% with a government decision. Demonetization scheme is like fencing a yard of sheeps either you fence it 100% or there is no point in it. Do you know how corrupt people function..... they are expert in finding loop holes in the system. All these people who are queueing up are carrying the black money on behalf of some people. His job is to keep exchanging the notes as much as he can. Worst the co-operative banks that are run mostly by politicians are the best place to exchange the black currency and they are happy to have 2000 rs notes. There system is such that they can do even back dated entries which nationalized or private banks can not. The only point I want to make is that demonetization is a fantastic step and should be used wisely and effectively to not allow any loop holes. If, for instance, this scheme can get rid of 10 lakh crores of black money and the poor implementation of scheme lets half of it get filtered into the system and then this makes a negative impact on our economy to the tune of rs. 6 lakh crores then end result will be negative. And this is avoidable negative. In my first post on this thread I mentioned that this scheme is not going to touch big politicians, bureaucrats and industrialsts who perhaps account for 80% of the black money in India. I still hope and pray that this scheme turns out to be successful and does not repeat 1978 demonetization.

Agreed.
I sincerely hope this is not the last step.

Unless Modi builds on this step and chip away at ways corrupt people can save their money, this would have been a futile exercise for making all Indian populace suffer.

Let us see what's in store..

Indications I am getting is that Benami properties, co op banks and Gold shops are next target.
Electoral reforms are definitely in pipe line.
 
.
Finally, don't get too attached to the 2000 rupee note...there are more surprises in store ;)
I believe you will get your wish of more lower denominations and lesser higher with emphasis on cashless transactions.
How do you know about more surprizes? You have some sources in corridors of power.... if you really do then plz convey my following expectations to them.
1. The government stops cash transaction above 50k or 100k with earliest effect.
2. Stop printing rs. 1000 and 2000 denominations. The biggest denomination should be rs.500/-.
3. Make agriculture income taxable.
4. Make compulsory disclosure of the source of donations to political parties, religious centers. Cash donations to be accepted only in camera with PAN number of donors or else it should be considered unaccounted and hence black money.

I think its enough to begin with. The next target should be black money that is collected in white and transferred abroad.
 
.
How do you know about more surprizes? You have some sources in corridors of power.... if you really do then plz convey my following expectations to them.
1. The government stops cash transaction above 50k or 100k with earliest effect.
2. Stop printing rs. 1000 and 2000 denominations. The biggest denomination should be rs.500/-.
3. Make agriculture income taxable.
4. Make compulsory disclosure of the source of donations to political parties, religious centers. Cash donations to be accepted only in camera with PAN number of donors or else it should be considered unaccounted and hence black money.

I think its enough to begin with. The next target should be black money that is collected in white and transferred abroad.

1. Fair point. Not really sure legalities of it. This is the next logical step in fight against black money
2. Short term not possible. We are replacing 86% of current cash in the system. It just is not possible NOW to do this. There are plans for later stage. That's why I said not to get attached to 2000 rupee notes.
3. NO. That should never happen for a lot of reasons. We can discuss why in separate thread if you want. how ever the loop hole where people scam this must stop and I believe it will happen
4. Ideally that MUST happen. however I doubt it will, especially in this term of BJP.


Just a point to all. To think they can fool the govt is a mistake. Things until have happened NOT because govt was not aware but because govt couldn't/wouldn't take action. Bottom line, govt knows all the crooked means, if they have the will, they can make life hell for crooks.
Let us see how far Modi is willing to go in this fight.
 
.
Contempt for poor wage earners involves not understanding that most of them are wasting entire days while waiting in line to exchange/deposit such a small amount that they will need to repeat the cycle the very next day. Contempt for such people also involves not understanding that 50 days without money supply stops procurement and sale, and freezes their lives - something they cannot afford.

Dude what's your definition for poor wager? As far as i know, a person can encash INR 24000 per week in two visits. Now that INR 24K per week translates to 24*4 = INR 96K per month per 8 visits which translates to USD 1400 in cash, or as they say in bills. This is apart from services which you can use plastic currency for but ,nevertheless, it's enough to support a family much less a common poor wage earner unless your ideal is Ranjeet who frequently hangs in Red light area with Russian girls.

p.s: I admire you put avg indian joe in bracket of INR 48.4K-96K per month.

Contempt for the ordinary person involves knowing that a woman, has stood in line from 6 in the morning while the Banks have not even opened at 10, all so that she can withdraw an amount which will not cover any part of her daughter's cash-based wedding. Contempt is not understanding that she and those like her are not "hoarders", but people who are crushed under this diktat. Contempt is looking at all this and assuming that as long as I pull through, others must be as fortunate, and anyone who complains is either corrupt or a sore loser.

This has been addressed

Bank withdrawal limit extended to Rs 2.5 lakh for weddings; Twitterati expects LOTS of wedding bells!
 
.
1. Fair point. Not really sure legalities of it. This is the next logical step in fight against black money
2. Short term not possible. We are replacing 86% of current cash in the system. It just is not possible NOW to do this. There are plans for later stage. That's why I said not to get attached to 2000 rupee notes.
3. NO. That should never happen for a lot of reasons. We can discuss why in separate thread if you want. how ever the loop hole where people scam this must stop and I believe it will happen
4. Ideally that MUST happen. however I doubt it will, especially in this term of BJP.


Just a point to all. To think they can fool the govt is a mistake. Things until have happened NOT because govt was not aware but because govt couldn't/wouldn't take action. Bottom line, govt knows all the crooked means, if they have the will, they can make life hell for crooks.
Let us see how far Modi is willing to go in this fight.
1. There is nothing illegal. Beyond 50k all cash dealings can only happen with the bank i.e. give the bank cash and get a bankers cheque / DD or whatever or .
2. If you accept point 1 then this problem is solved. I am not enamored by 2k rupee note nor I will need it as I use credit/debit cards. Nor I can use them to pay to my driver, servants or tuition teacher. 1k note was a head ache for me and I wonder who will use Rs.2k notes and for what purpose.
3. Take my words, those who make agri income worth paying tax are not actually making money from agriculture. Its only a way to absorb black money. I come from an agricultral family with huge land holdings and I know with so many owners of land and so much of unaccountable input cost agriculture in current system can not be a profitable venture and so I wonder how people make so huge income from agriculture.
4. The root of all black money is political funding. As long as there will be loop holes in this all actions will be merely cosmetic. I am against the rhetoric of state funding of elections as its unviable.

There are certain fundamental things about corruption and to get rid of it serious and sustained actions are needed to root out and destroy. We cant have an approach of low hanging fruits first and then branches, stem and at the last roots... this way we can never kill it. Instead attack the roots, does not matter it seems flourishing for a while but the moment roots are attacked the tree of corruption will come crashing.
 
.
Ameer dar raha hai, gareeb mar raha hai...
Mera Desh badal raha hai..

Sona ubal raha hai, paisa gal raha hai..
Mera Desh badal raha hai..

Ilaaj kara nahi sakte, roti khaa nahi sakte, gareeb tadap raha hai, ameer sisak raha hai...
Sach mei..
Mera Desh badal raha hai..

Na koi mazhab koi bhagwaan, ek hi line mei khade hai Hindu aur Musalaman..
Mera Desh badal raha hai..

Na sadko par jaam na bazaar mei kaam har koi note badal raha hai..
Mera Desh badal raha hai..

Koi kehta hai Desh jal raha hai..
Koi kehta hai Desh sambhal raha hai..
Kya sach mei mera Desh badal raha hai ???
 
.
2000rs note was necessary for the time being, to save printing time and early printing of new 500 and 1000 notes would have alerted hoarders in advance.
 
.
3. Next we come to the issue of loopholes. There are so many that I am only vaguely aware of a few. Someone with greater experience in finance would know dozens:

- As mentioned above, too much of the black money in the economy is already part of the formal, legal economy. It is invested in shares, bank deposits, legitimate businesses, real estate, etc. The reason as to why revenue is not able to mop up this money is because they do not have much faith in the IT-enabled means to track and record transactions, and also, they don’t have the requisite manpower. And mind you, the gap is only growing each day.

- As for real estate, lack of centralized land records means that there is no consolidated account for each person’s holdings. Aadhar-based seeding of property tax records will take ages, and will only be able to AT BEST detect benami property. Most property from black money is owned by people not covered under the definition of benami. That is because they were either purchased before the value-based reporting system came into existence, or were purchased with loans, or in joint names, or of values less than the reporting threshold. Most people I have talked to do not know anyone with benami property. Yet they know dozens of people with property in their own names who will have a hard time explaining themselves.

- The loan loophole is one of the biggest sources of tax evasion in India. If you purchase anything on a loan, it is automatically exempt from scrutiny. So one can just take a loan, and keep paying it with the black money he already has or continues to generate.

- As mentioned earlier, traders operate their own system of negotiable instruments. These traders are accepting old notes at discounted rates. What will they do with these old notes? They will not exchange them at the bank. They will either use it as discounted negotiable instruments themselves, which are totally unregulated, or will “lend” it to those who have no cash left. These traders will then trade with those who honour the old notes. The non-legal tenders will find some permanent acceptability (perhaps at a permanently lower value) within the black economy, thereby creating an even more undetectable system than at present. Two major functions of money include medium of exchange and store of value. If people continue to exchange in old currency notes with the faith that it will be accepted at least within the black economy, it may become a permanent feature of Indian monetary system. It will be especially useful for many transactions which are illegal any way and will never show up in the formal banking system. While the present black economy intersects the legitimate economy at various points, this new economy will not.

- I am sure that most people are aware of back-dated buying of gold, so no need to explain that I guess.

- Using bank employees to access unused and Jan Dhan yojna accounts is also big business. Rest assured, a lot of the millions of new accounts opened in the last two years in the names of poor people will have deposits and withdrawals made from them, of just less than 2.5 lakhs.

- Then there are the ingenious ways such as booking and cancellation of train tickets, paying advance salaries, giving loans, using the agricultural income loophole, using the loophole of contributions to political parties, etc. etc. etc.....and these are only the ones I know of.

- I hope it is now abundantly clear that the intended targets of this move are hardly losing any sleep over it.

4. I now come to some general concerns about this move and the road ahead of us.

- The issue of counterfeit notes is the biggest mountain of a molehill – ever. According to the Indian Statistical Institute, the total amount of counterfeit currency in circulation at any time is about Rs.400 cr. This is such a small amount that it needs no elaboration. And the cost of printing new notes? Rs.12,000 crores? Cost of ATM re-caliberation? Cash movement? Working hours lost? Retail business lost? Human suffering? As Mastercard would say – priceless.

- In any case, financing of terrorism in India has had age-old sources which have only grown over the year – narcotics and arms smuggling. Any Indian member on PDF who is interested in geo-strategic affairs knows exactly what happened after the Afghan War, the change in policy regarding asymmetric warfare, and the funding through heroine and gun-running. Since this thread does not involve our Western neighbours in any way whatsoever, I am desisting from elaborating further.

- The information was already leaked. SBI reported suspiciously high withdrawals of small denomination notes April-onwards. Local dailies in Gujarat had spilled the beans early enough. Cash deposits in banks spiked in the last quarter, reversing a trend, despite industrial growth weakening further. A further slap in the face of the “bahut achcha kiya” brigade.

- The only way demonetization in itself can even touch the problem of further generation of black money is by permanently contracting the cash supply in the economy. And along with being disastrous for the economy in general, this will hurt the poor and illiterate far more than the wealthy or the corrupt. Even a conservative estimate of the black money generated each year in the economy is Rs.30 lakhs – more than double the money being withdrawn from circulation. I hope the bhakts understand.

- The newly introduced higher denominations, once they are adequately available, will first go to the same people as they always went to before anyone else, referred to as “hoarders” – rest assured.

- We don’t have the infrastructure for a cashless economy, period. Stop this clap-trap about Jan Dhan yojna, blah-blah. With only 46% banking penetration, only 22% internet connectivity, 19% of population without electricity connection (and others with unreliable connection) and only 1.2 million of 14 million merchants having point of sale devices, India simply doesn't have the infrastructure for a cashless economy. POS penetration in India is around 693 per million, compared to around 4,000 for China – and even China doesn’t dream of going cashless. More food for thought for Bhakts. No doubt the government has made some good efforts, but they are far behind the curve.

- The government could have, for example, instructed public sector banks to reach out to all retailers etc. and install POS free of cost, as well as offer free maintenance. That would have prepared us for going cashless. Only recently has the RBI constituted a body to ensure that the issue of POS installation and the cost issue is addressed – expect something to start happen by the middle of next year, at the earliest.

- Also, we have one of the lowest rates of digital literacy in the world. In fact it is so low that RBI says that 88% of debit card transactions are for ATM withdrawals only. Those people who gloat over Jan Dhan blah blah should see how these accounts are operated. Bank employees or kind strangers have to literally do all the work for these people. People who cannot even put a thumb impression without being told how it is done are all supposed to just live on their debit/credit cards and online banking. If there is a crueller joke, I am yet to hear it.

- The printing of new 500 and 1,000 notes would take about seven months because the capacity of India's currency presses was only 300 crore pieces per month. The total number of currency that has been withdrawn is seven times higher. There were 2,203 crore pieces of ₹500 and ₹1000 notes in circulation. This is at full speed, mind you. So if Modiji asked for 50 days, what did he mean? That the supply of cash would be permanently brought down? Because otherwise the numbers don’t add up.

- We are being told that the move will benefit us in the long term. And yet, global experience has been that the only changes that work in the long term are policy and structural changes. By moving in such a drastic manner, and especially the sudden and unprepared nature thereof, the government betrayed its lack of faith in policy and structural change.

- While making decisions about monetary policy, there is extensive deliberations before even the minor adjustments are made. Economists and central bankers discuss the possible effect of .25-.5% rate changes for months. Will it cause inflationary/deflationary pressure? Will it affect liquidity? Will the common man be disproportionately affected? Will it achieve other desired objectives? Here, the government has sucked all liquidity from the system at one go, without a fixed timeline for its restoration. To think that this makes sense in economics is not only dangerous, but insanely so.

- The utterly ridiculous fact that no relevant authority was either informed or consulted has been turned on its head. It has been presented as a masterpiece of lightning action, and the total unpreparedness as a logical and desirable fallout. Even the most atrocious mistakes such as meaninglessly changing the size of the notes, thereby requiring such extensive re-calibration, has been explained away as a security feature. If this trend of blind faith continues, we are in severe danger of becoming a banana Republic.

- The global experience of demonetization is extremely discouraging. The only countries that have embarked upon such a move are those on their last legs or fighting a losing battle with inflation and economic collapse. Soviet Union, Zaire, North Korea – this is hardly a list to join, and in each of these cases, demonetization failed.

- The real experts have largely stayed out of the debate as they know how damagingly blind bhakti has taken over the public space in India. Former chief economist of the World Bank Kaushik Basu says it is a wrong move. Raghuram Rajan has stayed silent but in an earlier speech he had said that demonetization does not work (scholar-speak for disastrous). While D. Subbarao has generally agreed with the move, he has warned that he idea of refinancing banks is undesirable (scholar-speak for extremely stupid).

- Business and the economy thrive on confidence. And confidence comes from predictability. Anyone who has done business/tax structuring will know exactly how much effort, time and money businesses invest before making any decisions – new projects, acquisitions, expansion, etc. If they cannot foresee the implications – they will not act. And now our government has shown itself to be totally unreliable, and not only that, has promised many more of these surprise moves. There is a new rumous each day – new financial year, all taxes to be replaced by just Banking Transaction Tax, and so on. In this environment, business will not invest. Period. All the bhakts can take note.

- I am not even mentioning the escalating consequences such as loss of work, livelihood, short-medium term deflationary pressure, complete halt in employment growth etc. Those who understand will do their own research and as for bhakts, they have already discounted all of these things as “temporary inconvenience”. Such callous insensitivity will only end when the livelihood of the bhakts themselves is at stake. Only then will they understand what has happened.

- There are much saner alternatives that can kick in within two years and show actual results soon enough. The trouble is, calm competence has been jettisoned in favour of voodoo economics, and we are all paying its price.

This was the first thing the govt should have done and stopped cash transactions above 99,999/-. or even better above 49,999/-.
Next it should have waited to print Rs. 2000 notes and rather printed excessive notes of rs 100/- and below.Then after 3 months rs. 500/- and after 6 months rs. 1000 new notes should have been introduced. There is no need for Rs.2000 notes.

Before announcing all the jandhan accounts should have been issued with debit cards.

After announcement the banks were kept closed..... that day should have been used for caliberation of rs.100 notes in the ATMs and the ATMs would dispense only 100 rs notes.

Instead of exchanging 4000 rs. per day for new currency... all the old cash should have been allowed to be deposited in bank accounts. Special provisions for those who do not have a bank account. Later the govt. would be free to question those who deposited more than 2 or 2.5 lakhs in their account. This would have acted as compulsory disclosure scheme and all unaccounted deposits would allow the government to deduct taxes with 200% penalty.

Banks to visit temples, dargahs and religious / charitable centers to collect the cash on 10th november...and after that these temples, dargahs and charitable organizations etc will not be permitted to deposit cash in the banks.

These are small things that the government should have done to avoid hardship to the people. This could be more refined but it would have substantially lowered the doubts on govt. intention.


This was the first thing the govt should have done and stopped cash transactions above 99,999/-. or even better above 49,999/-.
Next it should have waited to print Rs. 2000 notes and rather printed excessive notes of rs 100/- and below.Then after 3 months rs. 500/- and after 6 months rs. 1000 new notes should have been introduced. There is no need for Rs.2000 notes.

Before announcing all the jandhan accounts should have been issued with debit cards.

After announcement the banks were kept closed..... that day should have been used for caliberation of rs.100 notes in the ATMs and the ATMs would dispense only 100 rs notes.

Instead of exchanging 4000 rs. per day for new currency... all the old cash should have been allowed to be deposited in bank accounts. Special provisions for those who do not have a bank account. Later the govt. would be free to question those who deposited more than 2 or 2.5 lakhs in their account. This would have acted as compulsory disclosure scheme and all unaccounted deposits would allow the government to deduct taxes with 200% penalty.

Banks to visit temples, dargahs and religious / charitable centers to collect the cash on 10th november...and after that these temples, dargahs and charitable organizations etc will not be permitted to deposit cash in the banks.

These are small things that the government should have done to avoid hardship to the people. This could be more refined but it would have substantially lowered the doubts on govt. intention.

While I disagree with you on certain points you made, your post shows an honest attempt at trying to understand and solve the present mess. We need more of this, and not blind bhakti. Cheers!

Most PDF Indian members probably are lucky enough to work in "formal sectors", so they don't have to go through this pain.

While the sum total of Indian members here is varied, the Modi-bhakts have a uniform profile. They are either college students studying at middle-rung universities or office goers with reasonably well-paying jobs. They are definitely not poor. But neither are they intellectuals, and I doubt many of them have any experience at running businesses either. How else can one explain the joy at the government's promise of many more surprises to come? Which businessman likes to hear that?
 
.
- We don’t have the infrastructure for a cashless economy, period. Stop this clap-trap about Jan Dhan yojna, blah-blah. With only 46% banking penetration, only 22% internet connectivity, 19% of population without electricity connection (and others with unreliable connection) and only 1.2 million of 14 million merchants having point of sale devices, India simply doesn't have the infrastructure for a cashless economy. POS penetration in India is around 693 per million, compared to around 4,000 for China – and even China doesn’t dream of going cashless. More food for thought for Bhakts. No doubt the government has made some good efforts, but they are far behind the curve.

The infrastructure is there, people just don't want to spend money in utilizing it.

Of course, there's also the problem with making people aware, but a lot of people already know what debit cards are. Cities and towns in particular can go cashless within weeks or months.

Banking penetration is low because people are simply not bothered, not that they don't have access to a bank.

Anyway-
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/post...ork-to-be-largest-in-world-government-1414470

http://www.firstpost.com/india/why-...a-is-a-slap-for-finance-ministry-1464349.html
If the Post Bank of India is operationalised, all the 1.54 lakh post offices, out of which about 90 per cent are in rural areas, by default will become a “bank”. These “banks” will be more accessible to the common people, because they have been right there for decades in their neighbourhood: there is a post office for every 7176 people in the country and in rural areas, the coverage is even better - one for every 5682 people. In fact, when the UPA government was struggling to find a way to transfer the wages for NREGA beneficiaries, it was this network that came to its rescue. About 2.2 crore people get their NREGA payments through the post offices.

Reliance Jio has already built a massive new fiber optic backbone in India. People can opt for a 1Gbps line within a few months, pan India. How many countries in the world can boast that?
http://www.indiatimes.com/news/indi...900-cities-and-towns-across-india-261171.html

It's fine to question the demonetization scheme, I have most of the same questions you have. But please don't tell us what we can or can't do. Going cashless is a mid to long term move, not a short term one.

While making decisions about monetary policy, there is extensive deliberations before even the minor adjustments are made. Economists and central bankers discuss the possible effect of .25-.5% rate changes for months. Will it cause inflationary/deflationary pressure? Will it affect liquidity? Will the common man be disproportionately affected? Will it achieve other desired objectives? Here, the government has sucked all liquidity from the system at one go, without a fixed timeline for its restoration. To think that this makes sense in economics is not only dangerous, but insanely so.

Are you pissed that you were not included? This move was in the works for more than 10 months.

- The utterly ridiculous fact that no relevant authority was either informed or consulted has been turned on its head. It has been presented as a masterpiece of lightning action, and the total unpreparedness as a logical and desirable fallout. Even the most atrocious mistakes such as meaninglessly changing the size of the notes, thereby requiring such extensive re-calibration, has been explained away as a security feature. If this trend of blind faith continues, we are in severe danger of becoming a banana Republic.

The unpreparedness was temporary and even the govt announced that. It was compounded by people going to the banks unnecessarily because they were scared, even though they were given 50 days. I already told you, the bank lines have practically gone.

In fact it is more inconvenient when political parties call for bandhs and strikes for days on end.

The real experts have largely stayed out of the debate as they know how damagingly blind bhakti has taken over the public space in India. Former chief economist of the World Bank Kaushik Basu says it is a wrong move. Raghuram Rajan has stayed silent but in an earlier speech he had said that demonetization does not work (scholar-speak for disastrous). While D. Subbarao has generally agreed with the move, he has warned that he idea of refinancing banks is undesirable (scholar-speak for extremely stupid).

There have been an equal number of supporters also.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/busin...sation-move/story-tlHYIJE1k3egg2dQMPkt1N.html
The International Monetary Fund said on Thursday it supports India’s efforts to fight corruption through the currency control measures announced this week, but stressed taking care to minimize disruptions in the economy.

“The eradication of the black money menace from the Indian economy is a big positive in the long-term, and the Indian economy will be on a very strong footing once the short-term teething problems are done,” said Sachin Shah, fund manager at the Mumbai-based Emkay Global Financial Services.

Morgan Stanley hailed the demonetization as a “bold move to curb black money” and bring millions more Indians into the tax regime. As of now, only about 1.6% of India’s 1.25 billion people are paying income tax.

The surprise currency swap would “have a debilitating impact on the parallel economy in the country,” said Harshavardhan Neotia, the head of the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry, referring to business conducted using illicit cash.

Many economists are not talking because nobody knows what is Modi's next move. The formal sector will continue functioning, and it is the largest tax generator. Indirect taxes will take a temporary hit until cash flow goes back to normal, with any differences supplemented by going cashless by those in the formal sector, living in towns and cities. So give it until Feb or March for that to happen. You forget that most economic activity is generated in towns and cities, and that's where most of the infrastructure (mobile penetration, internet etc) for going cashless is already present. Now people will make extra effort to go cashless compared to before.

The govt is right now deciding the cash transaction limit and cash withdrawal limit. That's a huge change compared to before.

I am not even mentioning the escalating consequences such as loss of work, livelihood, short-medium term deflationary pressure, complete halt in employment growth etc. Those who understand will do their own research and as for bhakts, they have already discounted all of these things as “temporary inconvenience”. Such callous insensitivity will only end when the livelihood of the bhakts themselves is at stake. Only then will they understand what has happened.

We are in a period of jobless growth. Only 2 lakh jobs were created this year. So it sucks either way. There was job stagnation even before this. And most of this stagnation came because banks were in the red.

Anyway, if Modi really needs to start changing the country, he needs 2/3rd majority in the Rajya Sabha, which he can get because of the upcoming UP elections.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...modi-bjp-black-money-corruption/1/812942.html

The fact is we have so little information that there is only one realistic position to take: It's to wait and watch. No different from what most economists have taken. Whereas your pessimistic position and the 'bhakt's' optimistic position are doing the same amount of harm.
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom