India requested US to help during 1962 war-to stop Pakistan from attacking

[Hellfire]

How would you react if 2 of your neighbours were planning to gang up against you?

By better planning in a pragmatic way. Not living in an Utopian world of own making. Something which was missing and is still missing.

Would you not call a freind for help???
It's as pragmatic as it can be.

Friend? I thought neither US nor USSR was our friend at the time (read up about 1965 war) The problem with us Indians is pragmatism is replaced by emotions at a moments notice. Somehow now it seems US was a friend (great friend who worked against us in 1965) at the time! I was not aware of the fact. I think my history (especially military history) is faulty. Which book did you refer to?

And it's not called begging.

When your country's defences are collapsing and your forces are routed ..... it is begging .... accept it ... if not ..... live the folly of Nehru over again. No Sir/Madam, there are no friends or foes, only interests in international politics and foreign relations.

And as for the motto, when I quoted it, I expected you to read up the history of the said conflict by Dalvi et al and also Maxwell. Please of the same. In Indian Army, those who have studied the war thoroughly, have no illusions. And neither do they believe the load of cr@p that politicians fed the citizen. Thanks

 

[ranjeet]

The result matters not the means. We begged in 1971 too, BEGGED the western world and especially Pakistan to stop the massacre in East Pakistan. When no one listened, we BAGGED Bangladesh.

 

[Dash]

Two aspects, one. India was fighting with the Chinese with a strength of couple of brigade level force and western border was still guarded. A reason when India feared of a Pakistan attack.

Wartime diplomacy is always a game between powers. In our case was Russia and US.

When we are not surprised Ayub khan asking to be compensated for neutrality, my friends in Pakistan must not be overjoyed of India asking for assurance of a bigger power for its intervention.

Its the same US that Pak went on "begging" if I may use the word pls to intermediate in 1999.

 

[deckingraj]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absolute bull crap...i am not sure why even after 53 years people are still dumb enough not to read what is out there and just come up with some garbage...I wonder what is the fun in that??...

Even looking at the OP opening post there is no mention of India asking US to reign in Pakistan...Yes Nehru requested for US help but when?? Did anyone care to check that fact?? Also how great were the relationships between Pakistan and China at that time?? The fact that Military alliance with China began in 1966 gives a good enough picture, no?? With US being the partner how on the earth Pakistan could have done anything which will remotely help a communist power who was a US rival?? i mean does people even use an iota of brain before posting all this nonsense??

The India china was a brief one i.e. from 20 Oct, 1962 - 19 Nov, 1962. It took almost 9 months for India to prepare for a showdown with Pakistan in 1971 however here we are made to believe that Pakistan was strong enough to go against US mandate and help a communist regime and that too on such a short notice??

The fact of the matter is that Pakistan was never an equation in 1962. it is also a fact that New Delhi requested for Amercian intervention(call it begging, licking boots, bending backward or whatever) however when latter put in a condition of giving concessions in Kashmit new delhi developed cold feets...China enjoyed humping us all this time with no-one to save us...thanks to cuban missile crisis even USSR backed off...however atleast it didn't side with Pakistan and that's why India went full frontal with USSR after 62 war crisis...Pakistan had to wait for 3 more years to attack India itself tells how much they were prepared to attack India in 62...

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Uh, we fought directly against the USA + 16 of her allies combined during the Korean war, and pushed them into the longest retreat in the history of the US armed forces.

And we fought directly against the USSR during the Sino-Soviet split, including the 1969 conflict.

We have fought directly against both the superpowers. Who has India fought? They lost half of Kashmir to Pakistan, and lost Aksai Chin to an undeveloped country (China in the 1960's).

Not taking away the bravery of the Chinese, u know the other parts are completely false and lies.
First Pakistan Army never Invaded Kashmir under India control. They attacked an independent state with less defence.
When IA landed in Srinagar, they were mere 12 miles from the city. We gave blows to them, and if Nehru hadnt gone to UN, Kashmir issue would have been resolved by now.

Reg Aksai Chin, it was only in 1956-57 we came to know Chinese forces were occupying it. IA was just expanding in Kashmir when it found out. Its not as if Chinese conquered it.

 

[deckingraj]

Two aspects, one. India was fighting with the Chinese with a strength of couple of brigade level force and western border was still guarded. A reason when India feared of a Pakistan attack.

Wartime diplomacy is always a game between powers. In our case was Russia and US.

When we are not surprised Ayub khan asking to be compensated for neutrality, my friends in Pakistan must not be overjoyed of India asking for assurance of a bigger power for its intervention.

Its the same US that Pak went on "begging" if I may use the word pls to intermediate in 1999.

I am sorry but can you share something which suggests that?? We even didn't use Air-force in that war...does that also mean we were keeping it for western border?? Please India was not prepared for war at all and Pakistan was not an equation...geo-politics would never have allowed that...Both USA/USSR were anti-china at that time...it is just because of Nehru over-calculation and cuban crisis which resulted in our thrashing....that's it...

 

[911]

Delusional OP. India was never 7:1 in any war against Pakistan in millitary terms. And US was already against India after 1961 liberation of Goa so how could they help India.

 

[deckingraj]

Delusional OP. India was never 7:1 in any war against Pakistan in millitary terms. And US was already against India after 1961 liberation of Goa so how could they help India.

Geo-politics is very interesting...it is always give and take...what do you think US would want...help India whom they not like or help China by not helping India and open the door for another country falling to communism??

 

[911]

Geo-politics is very interesting...it is always give and take...what do you think US would want...help India whom they not like or help China by not helping India and open the door for another country falling to communism??

I agree with that priorities change with increased threat. But its tells you how much India 'begged' and how much US was interested in intervention themselves.

 

[Levina]

By better planning in a pragmatic way. Not living in an Utopian world of own making. Something which was missing and is still missing.

Friend? I thought neither US nor USSR was our friend at the time (read up about 1965 war) The problem with us Indians is pragmatism is replaced by emotions at a moments notice. Somehow now it seems US was a friend (great friend who worked against us in 1965) at the time! I was not aware of the fact. I think my history (especially military history) is faulty. Which book did you refer to?

Anyone with whom you share cordial relations is called friend.

When your country's defences are collapsing and your forces are routed ..... it is begging .... accept it ... if not ..... live the folly of Nehru over again. No Sir/Madam, there are no friends or foes, only interests in international politics and foreign relations.

And as for the motto, when I quoted it, I expected you to read up the history of the said conflict by Dalvi et al and also Maxwell. Please of the same. In Indian Army, those who have studied the war thoroughly, have no illusions. And neither do they believe the load of cr@p that politicians fed the citizen. Thanks

Just curious!
Are you really an Indian?
Btw OP has given me the permission to request a change of title.

You know you can be demanding person and impossible to refuse. I tried but I can't edit the title. I would have no problems with you asking Wajsal to change the title to "asked" or "requested". Sorry I am oaf when it comes to these things - actually I am oaf with most things as you know. I am only good at one thing which you don't know about.

Ciao.

Thank you @Atanz for giving me the permission to request a change of title.
@WAJsal requesting you to edit the title of the thread to "India requested US to help during 1962 war" or anything more appropriate.

State craft jargon differs from state to state. main trait that distinguishes jargon from the rest of a language is special vocabulary—including some words specific to it and, often of words that outgroups would tend to take in a broader sense. Thus terms beg, threaten, non-state, dictatorship, etc find prevalence "here" in most political counter-narratives even if directed outwards.

If anything it's entertaining if you enjoy dark humor.

Do you always joke with a straight face? Lol

 

[nair]

Troll thread......

 

[Spectre]

Anyone with whom you share cordial relations is called friend.

Just curious!
Are you really an Indian?
Btw OP has given me the permission to request a change of title.



Thank you @Atanz for giving me the permission to request a change of title.
@WAJsal requesting you to edit the title of the thread to "India requested US to help during 1962 war" or anything more appropriate.



Do you always joke with a straight face? Lol

Semantics don't really matter - 1962 changed the future course of India. India went from being the leader of Asian Renaissance, beacon of democracy and an essential player of the great game to being a stepping stone for China.

India as a nation lost it's confidence and has ever been so cautious, pulling it's punches and being perpetual under-achiever all because of the trauma of stepping up during 1962 still haunts the institutional psyche of Indian Security Establishment. I speculate that '62 is one of the core reasons why we held ourselves back during 65, 71, 91, '01 and '08. We didn't bomb the crap out of Pakistani Nuclear Establishments when there was still time and never again planned a war to take back what was rightfully ours in Kashmir.

In a way that is good because we didn't get embroiled in endless wars of attrition but then there are no rewards without any risk and all gains India has made are incremental and painstakingly slow.

As for asking for US help - that is the consequence of being un-prepared. India could have held back and even regained the lost ground because we had the means to do so and our population was united in face of the alien threat but by asking for US help we ceded the authority to US on how and when the war would end.

As I am writing this - I have a depressing feeling of futility when I should be celebrating on our republic day but what good is our celebration when our republic stands violated by both China and Pakistan.

Regards

 

[third eye]

In 1962 when India faced a country more it's own size China, which gave Indian Army a right thrashing Nehru begged American to help save India. He also pleaded to the Americans to stop Pakistan from attacking India - Kashmir hung like a ripe fruit to be plucked. However US threatened Pakistan and got President Ayub to back off and give a pledge not to attack.

One has read such claims before.

The facts are quite different, Pak back then was firmly in the CENTO hold and wanted to remain so. Those were the days of spy flights from Peshawar over USSR etc.

The last thing the Western world wanted was the spread of Communism.

There is no way Pak could have done anything that would further this scourge across the world & lived. Attacking India at that time would have furthered Chinese interests.

 

[Hellfire]

Just curious! Are you really an Indian?
Btw OP has given me the permission to request a change of title.

Yes my friend. Born and raised as one, living as one and hope to die as one. For a person who is a relative newbie (seeing the dates of joining) your insinuations to otherwise is offending
BTW, the motto? I have had the honour to live that too, if you get my drift.

Just because I am stating something contrary to your perception (and general misinformed Indian public perception) does not make me a non-Indian. I have read military history as a profession, having spent a considerable time with the field. I read military history out of a passion too. I do not hesitate from calling a spade as such. So, sorry if you can not accept the facts, but they are as such. This place is not meant for a history which is too long. I suggest you read War in High Himalayas by Brig (later Maj Gen) Palit, a good read. You may be able to clear up some misconceptions. He is an authority for Indian Army too. Also read Neville Maxwell and Brig Dalvi.

Semantics don't really matter - 1962 changed the future course of India. India went from being the leader of Asian Renaissance, beacon of democracy and an essential player of the great game to being a stepping stone for China.

India as a nation lost it's confidence and has ever been so cautious, pulling it's punches and being perpetual under-achiever all because of the trauma of stepping up during 1962 still haunts the institutional psyche of Indian Security Establishment. I speculate that '62 is one of the core reasons why we held ourselves back during 65, 71, 91, '01 and '08. We didn't bomb the crap out of Pakistani Nuclear Establishments when there was still time and never again planned a war to take back what was rightfully ours in Kashmir.

In a way that is good because we didn't get embroiled in endless wars of attrition but then there are no rewards without any risk and all gains India has made are incremental and painstakingly slow.

As for asking for US help - that is the consequence of being un-prepared. India could have held back and even regained the lost ground because we had the means to do so and our population was united in face of the alien threat but by asking for US help we ceded the authority to US on how and when the war would end.

As I am writing this - I have a depressing feeling of futility when I should be celebrating on our republic day but what good is our celebration when our republic stands violated by both China and Pakistan.

Regards

Thanks button still non functional. But thanks for a good post. Agreed wholeheartedly with the analysis here.

 

[RayOfLight]

please stay in 1962 and feel comfortable in 2016..