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India reported that R-77-type "air to air" missile there is a serious flaw.

Actually Astra does not use a Russian seeker.The seeker was developed by Research Center Imarat with help from Agat.But that does not mean it's the same seeker of R 77.It says the seeker of Astra has extencive ECCM capability and excelent jam resistance.However its true capability remains to be seen.
By the way,the highest head on range of R 77 at highest possible altitude is stated to be 100 km where as the DRDO Astra has a stated range of 110+ km at 45000',80 km at 30000' and 28 km at sealevel,so the range of Astra is already slightly greater than R 77.Here one thing we have to take a look at,the Astra weighs only 152 kg,lightest in its range class where as R 77 weighs 176 kg which means Astra has definately got a better fuel efficient propulsion system than R 77.
By the way most of these datas are collected from open sources and can be wrong.PLEASE do feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
REGARDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 
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Waste of time as the thread is based on a silly blog not any reliable source. :hitwall:

Mods should close this thread as they have closed many threads saying it unsubstantial BS.
 
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Actually Astra does not use a Russian seeker.The seeker was developed by Research Center Imarat with help from Agat.But that does not mean it's the same seeker of R 77.It says the seeker of Astra has extencive ECCM capability and excelent jam resistance.However its true capability remains to be seen.
By the way,the highest head on range of R 77 at highest possible altitude is stated to be 100 km where as the DRDO Astra has a stated range of 110+ km at 45000',80 km at 30000' and 28 km at sealevel,so the range of Astra is already slightly greater than R 77.Here one thing we have to take a look at,the Astra weighs only 152 kg,lightest in its range class where as R 77 weighs 176 kg which means Astra has definately got a better fuel efficient propulsion system than R 77.
By the way most of these datas are collected from open sources and can be wrong.PLEASE do feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
REGARDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Actually Astra does not use a Russian seeker.The seeker was developed by Research Center Imarat with help from Agat.But that does not mean it's the same seeker of R 77.It says the seeker of Astra has extencive ECCM capability and excelent jam resistance.However its true capability remains to be seen.
By the way,the highest head on range of R 77 at highest possible altitude is stated to be 100 km where as the DRDO Astra has a stated range of 110+ km at 45000',80 km at 30000' and 28 km at sealevel,so the range of Astra is already slightly greater than R 77.Here one thing we have to take a look at,the Astra weighs only 152 kg,lightest in its range class where as R 77 weighs 176 kg which means Astra has definately got a better fuel efficient propulsion system than R 77.
By the way most of these datas are collected from open sources and can be wrong.PLEASE do feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong.
REGARDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Here it is
activeradarseekerkaband.jpg
 
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there is a lot of doubt on which seeker the astra uses.....
i have plenty of sources saying russian - here are a couple...
The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : Astra carriage trials next month
BANGALORE: The carriage trials of the indigenous air-to-air missile , Astra, are slated for January. Test pilots from the Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment will take off in a Su-30MKI combat aircraft from Air Force Station Lohegaon (Pune) for the trials.

Disclosing this to The Hindu on Saturday, project director of the Astra programme S. Gollakota said the Indian Air Force had made available a Su-30MKI for the trials.

Flights evaluations and specific telemetry were on and the detailed Su-30 was undergoing instrumentation and modifications in order to allow it to carry the missile on its wing tips at the HAL’s Nasik facility.

During the trials, the Su-30MKI will carry a dummy Astra missile (with no explosives) which has not been electrically or electronically ‘connected’ to the aircraft’s on-board systems.

The trials, which involve around 20 odd sorties, will allow a verification of aspects such as the mechanical, structural and electrical compatibility between the missile and the aircraft, vibrations and strain.

Second phase
The second phase of the trials — expected next July — will involve the integration of the missile’s avionics with that of the aircraft.

Dr. Gollakota expects the actual firing during the end of 2009.

In September, the Astra was successfully test fired from a ground launch at Chandipur-on-sea, off the Orissa coast. But India has a long way to go to master and indigenise some of the missile’s crucial technologies.

The Astra now depends on a Russian launcher and more crucially the seeker head is also imported.

India had tried to get a seeker from the French, but settled for the Russian one, which is yet to be integrated with the missile’s radar, algorithms, etc.


Part of India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme that was developed by a team of defence laboratories led by the Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory, the Astra, at its design altitude of 15 km, has the ability to evade radar and hit targets up to a range of 80 km.

According to Dr. Gollakota, the Astra can be compared to the U.S.’s AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM, France’s MICA (Missile d’interception et de combat aérien, “Interception and Aerial Combat Missile”) and Russia’s R77 (RVV-AE) missile.

On four platforms
As per the IAF’s air staff requirements, the Astra is to be used on four platforms, the Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and the MiG-29.

Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight - All about business, business news.

To add punch to IAF’s fleet of Sukhoi, Mig-29, Mirage-2000, Tejas. - IAF's $11-bn order may become larger - US puts Lockheed off Tejas flight path - Suryakirans to enthrall Dasara crowds - CBI begins probe into copter crash, visits Nallamala forests - IAF copters carry out flood relief operation in Bengal - HAL offers trainer aircraft to resolve IAF crisis Veteran fighter pilots lament the end of the dogfight, the evocative name for a twisty, sky-ripping, adrenaline-packed aerial duel, in which the winner gets behind his opponent and shoots him down with a burst of cannon fire. Today, it is less about flying skill, cold nerve and highly-responsive aircraft; the modern-day dogfighting ace is an airborne video-game expert who uses radar to detect his foe at long ranges, and launch a beyond visual range (BVR) missile even before his victim realises that the engagement has begun. Just days from now, a Sukhoi-30MKI fighter will take off from an Indian Air Force (IAF) base, an Astra missile fitted on its wing. This will be the first-ever flight of this indigenously developed BVR missile, which the IAF hopes will add punch to its fleet of Sukhoi-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) fighters. The Astra, built by the Defence R&D Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad, will allow IAF pilots to hit enemy aircraft up to 44 km away, at altitudes up to 20,000 metres. Improving on that will be the Astra Mk II, with a longer range of 80 km. The Astra incorporates many cutting-edge technologies. Here is how an Astra would take on an enemy fighter: an IAF fighter’s radar picks up the target; the pilot launches an Astra missile. A high-energy propellant quickly boosts the missile to several times the speed of sound. At ranges beyond 15 km, the Astra cannot “see” its target, so the IAF fighter guides the missile, relaying the target’s continually changing position over a secure radio link. Once it is 15 km from the target, the Astra’s onboard seeker picks up the target; after that the Astra homes in on its own. At this point, the target would start turning and diving to throw off the missile. But the Astra manoeuvres better, and moves much faster, than even the most agile fighters. A radio proximity fuse measures the distance to the target. When the target is within 5 metres, the Astra’s radio proximity fuse detonates its warhead, sending a volley of shrapnel ripping through the enemy fighter. Most of these technologies have already been proven. The propulsion system, the data link between the aircraft and the Astra, the radio proximity fuse, the onboard computer, the inertial navigation system and other key technologies were developed at the DRDO’s missile complex in Hyderabad. The Astra’s seeker is still imported from Russia, but the DRDO hopes to develop one. The forthcoming test with a Sukhoi-30MKI is called a “captive flight trial”; it will evaluate whether the Astra can withstand the physical stresses of supersonic flying and high-speed manoeuvring. Early in 2010, a “captive-II flight trial” will check whether the Astra’s avionics are properly matched with those of the Sukhoi-30MKI. The fighter should receive the missile’s signals; and the Astra should receive the aircraft’s commands. “Matching an Indian missile with a Russian fighter’s avionics has turned out to be a complex task”, explains Mukesh Chand, one of the Astra’s key developers, “But the Astra will be much better integrated with the Indian Tejas LCA.” Only in October 2010, after all the Astra’s systems are certified airworthy, will a live Astra be fired from a fighter. But the project scientists are confident; in a September 2008 test in Balasore, Orissa, a ground-launched Astra shot down an electronic target, validating many of the most complex technologies. A drawback in the Astra remains its high weight; even a heavy fighter like the Sukhoi-30MKI cannot carry the missile on its wingtip stations. In comparison with the Astra’s estimated 150 kg, other BVR missiles like the Israeli Derby weigh around 100 kg only. Nevertheless, the IAF believes the Astra will usefully supplement India’s inventory of BVR missiles. The Russian R-77 Adder, which arms India’s Russian aircraft fleet, faces worrying questions about its reliability. And the R530D missile, carried by the Mirage-2000, is nearing obsolescence.

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

hopefully we are developing an indigenous seeker for the astra and the russian one is only a stop gap measure
 
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there is a lot of doubt on which seeker the astra uses.....
i have plenty of sources saying russian - here are a couple...
The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : Astra carriage trials next month
BANGALORE: The carriage trials of the indigenous air-to-air missile , Astra, are slated for January. Test pilots from the Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment will take off in a Su-30MKI combat aircraft from Air Force Station Lohegaon (Pune) for the trials.

Disclosing this to The Hindu on Saturday, project director of the Astra programme S. Gollakota said the Indian Air Force had made available a Su-30MKI for the trials.

Flights evaluations and specific telemetry were on and the detailed Su-30 was undergoing instrumentation and modifications in order to allow it to carry the missile on its wing tips at the HAL’s Nasik facility.

During the trials, the Su-30MKI will carry a dummy Astra missile (with no explosives) which has not been electrically or electronically ‘connected’ to the aircraft’s on-board systems.

The trials, which involve around 20 odd sorties, will allow a verification of aspects such as the mechanical, structural and electrical compatibility between the missile and the aircraft, vibrations and strain.

Second phase
The second phase of the trials — expected next July — will involve the integration of the missile’s avionics with that of the aircraft.

Dr. Gollakota expects the actual firing during the end of 2009.

In September, the Astra was successfully test fired from a ground launch at Chandipur-on-sea, off the Orissa coast. But India has a long way to go to master and indigenise some of the missile’s crucial technologies.

The Astra now depends on a Russian launcher and more crucially the seeker head is also imported.

India had tried to get a seeker from the French, but settled for the Russian one, which is yet to be integrated with the missile’s radar, algorithms, etc.


Part of India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme that was developed by a team of defence laboratories led by the Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory, the Astra, at its design altitude of 15 km, has the ability to evade radar and hit targets up to a range of 80 km.

According to Dr. Gollakota, the Astra can be compared to the U.S.’s AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM, France’s MICA (Missile d’interception et de combat aérien, “Interception and Aerial Combat Missile”) and Russia’s R77 (RVV-AE) missile.

On four platforms
As per the IAF’s air staff requirements, the Astra is to be used on four platforms, the Su-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and the MiG-29.

Astra air-to-air missile to make its first flight - All about business, business news.

To add punch to IAF’s fleet of Sukhoi, Mig-29, Mirage-2000, Tejas. - IAF's $11-bn order may become larger - US puts Lockheed off Tejas flight path - Suryakirans to enthrall Dasara crowds - CBI begins probe into copter crash, visits Nallamala forests - IAF copters carry out flood relief operation in Bengal - HAL offers trainer aircraft to resolve IAF crisis Veteran fighter pilots lament the end of the dogfight, the evocative name for a twisty, sky-ripping, adrenaline-packed aerial duel, in which the winner gets behind his opponent and shoots him down with a burst of cannon fire. Today, it is less about flying skill, cold nerve and highly-responsive aircraft; the modern-day dogfighting ace is an airborne video-game expert who uses radar to detect his foe at long ranges, and launch a beyond visual range (BVR) missile even before his victim realises that the engagement has begun. Just days from now, a Sukhoi-30MKI fighter will take off from an Indian Air Force (IAF) base, an Astra missile fitted on its wing. This will be the first-ever flight of this indigenously developed BVR missile, which the IAF hopes will add punch to its fleet of Sukhoi-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) fighters. The Astra, built by the Defence R&D Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad, will allow IAF pilots to hit enemy aircraft up to 44 km away, at altitudes up to 20,000 metres. Improving on that will be the Astra Mk II, with a longer range of 80 km. The Astra incorporates many cutting-edge technologies. Here is how an Astra would take on an enemy fighter: an IAF fighter’s radar picks up the target; the pilot launches an Astra missile. A high-energy propellant quickly boosts the missile to several times the speed of sound. At ranges beyond 15 km, the Astra cannot “see” its target, so the IAF fighter guides the missile, relaying the target’s continually changing position over a secure radio link. Once it is 15 km from the target, the Astra’s onboard seeker picks up the target; after that the Astra homes in on its own. At this point, the target would start turning and diving to throw off the missile. But the Astra manoeuvres better, and moves much faster, than even the most agile fighters. A radio proximity fuse measures the distance to the target. When the target is within 5 metres, the Astra’s radio proximity fuse detonates its warhead, sending a volley of shrapnel ripping through the enemy fighter. Most of these technologies have already been proven. The propulsion system, the data link between the aircraft and the Astra, the radio proximity fuse, the onboard computer, the inertial navigation system and other key technologies were developed at the DRDO’s missile complex in Hyderabad. The Astra’s seeker is still imported from Russia, but the DRDO hopes to develop one. The forthcoming test with a Sukhoi-30MKI is called a “captive flight trial”; it will evaluate whether the Astra can withstand the physical stresses of supersonic flying and high-speed manoeuvring. Early in 2010, a “captive-II flight trial” will check whether the Astra’s avionics are properly matched with those of the Sukhoi-30MKI. The fighter should receive the missile’s signals; and the Astra should receive the aircraft’s commands. “Matching an Indian missile with a Russian fighter’s avionics has turned out to be a complex task”, explains Mukesh Chand, one of the Astra’s key developers, “But the Astra will be much better integrated with the Indian Tejas LCA.” Only in October 2010, after all the Astra’s systems are certified airworthy, will a live Astra be fired from a fighter. But the project scientists are confident; in a September 2008 test in Balasore, Orissa, a ground-launched Astra shot down an electronic target, validating many of the most complex technologies. A drawback in the Astra remains its high weight; even a heavy fighter like the Sukhoi-30MKI cannot carry the missile on its wingtip stations. In comparison with the Astra’s estimated 150 kg, other BVR missiles like the Israeli Derby weigh around 100 kg only. Nevertheless, the IAF believes the Astra will usefully supplement India’s inventory of BVR missiles. The Russian R-77 Adder, which arms India’s Russian aircraft fleet, faces worrying questions about its reliability. And the R530D missile, carried by the Mirage-2000, is nearing obsolescence.

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 AM ----------

hopefully we are developing an indigenous seeker for the astra and the russian one is only a stop gap measure

Article from 2008
 
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Article from 2008
true but there hasnt been any news of an indian seeker, has there? and if we had managed to make one I'm pretty sure DRDO would have announced it.
About the indigenous seeker all i have is this
Bharat Electronics & Rafael to Forge Tie-up for Missile Seekers | India Defence Online
India is inching closer towards developing missile seekers in the country, with the help of Israel. The state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) is expected to seal the deal with Israeli major Rafael Advanced Defence Systems this year, since the issues related to foreign equity are being finally resolved.

According to BEL officials, the proposed joint venture to produce missile seekers with Rafael of Israel may come through soon since the Israeli firm is ready to hold a lower equity of 26 per cent in the venture. With the foreign equity cap of 26 per cent mandated by the Indian government, both the companies are re-arranging their business plans to make headway into the project.

BEL and Rafael of Israel have already been trying to forge a partnership for a couple of years to create this crucial defence equipment and have already signed initial terms of the proposed venture. While the joint venture will produce missile seekers or ‘Homers’ for both the country’s needs, it will also be exported as per a memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed in early 2008.

India has been pursuing significant research and development in the field of missile seekers for a long time. A seeker missile is a mini precision guidance radar or device that controls the core actions of the missile like detection of enemy targets in air or on ground, then guiding the missile to destroy the target. Unlike the other anti-aircraft missile with India, this latest missile seeker is not restricted to control and command from the ground because the ‘seeker’ is a missile guidance device aboard an interceptor missile that searches for and homes in on a target.

Although BEL has not disclosed the cost of the project, it is likely to be to the tune of over couple of hundred crores. Once approved, the factory will be located near an existing campus of BEL, which has facilities in Bangalore, Pune and Hyderabad. BEL is also involved in the Akash anti-aircraft missiles worth Rs 4,600 crore for the Indian Air Force.



so seems like in 2010 we were still finalizing a partner to help us develop a seeker so I dont think that the astra seeker is ready
 
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Bharat Electronics & Rafael to Forge Tie-up for Missile Seekers

This is some serious development..Thanks Jon SNow..
Arguably RAFAEL produces the best seeker in the world and it is one of the reason that Python-5 has turned out as one of the best missile in its category and gives a tough competition to AIM-9X..
 
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India is also supposed to develop a short range heat seeking AAM with MBDA as ASRAAM is selected to replace Magic for Jaguar and Mirage...
 
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What about Novator K-100 ? :cheers:

That is an extremely long range air-air missile and will be used against big and not so agile targets like AWACs..
Most probably this is already inducted in IAF..
 
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Is the Russian problems due to flaws, corrupt defence ministers like George Ferandez who should be investigated, a behind the scenes pact between Russia and China, corruption in both Russian and Indian defence procurement officials who pocket the cash, etc? If the rest of the world ain;t using it, then DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND SAVE TIME< ANGER< FRUSTATION AND DON:T BUY IT
 
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no need to be too happy - Astra uses Russian seeker as well ( most probably the same one )
Astra air-to-air missile - a knol by Vijainder K Thakur
Little correction according to few reports it has Israeli Seeker....
Bharat Electronics&Rafael to Forge Tie-up for Missile Seekers

India is inching closer towards developing missile seekers in the country, with the help of Israel. The state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) is expected to seal the deal with Israeli major Rafael Advanced Defence Systems this year, since the issues related to foreign equity are being finally resolved.

According to BEL officials, the proposed joint venture to produce missile seekers with Rafael of Israel may come through soon since the Israeli firm is ready to hold a lower equity of 26 per cent in the venture. With the foreign equity cap of 26 per cent mandated by the Indian government, both the companies are re-arranging their business plans to make headway into the project.

BEL and Rafael of Israel have already been trying to forge a partnership for a couple of years to create this crucial defence equipment and have already signed initial terms of the proposed venture. While the joint venture will produce missile seekers or‘Homers’for both the country’s needs, it will also be exported as per a memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed in early 2008.

India has been pursuing significant research and development in the field of missile seekers for a long time. A seeker missile is a mini precision guidance radar or device that controls the core actions of the missile like detection of enemy targets in air or on ground, then guiding the missile to destroy the target. Unlike the other anti-aircraft missile with India, this latest missile seeker is not restricted to control and command from the ground because the‘seeker’is a missile guidance device aboard an interceptor missile that searches for and homes in on a target.

Although BEL has not disclosed the cost of the project, it is likely to be to the tune of over couple of hundred crores. Once approved, the factory will be located near an existing campus of BEL, which has facilities in Bangalore, Pune and Hyderabad. BEL is also involved in the Akash anti-aircraft missiles worth Rs 4,600 crore for the Indian Air Force
 
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Well a lot of misconceptions here
1) LCA uses Derby because the Russians did not allow the R 77 to be integrated to the IAI-DRDO radar as this will give access codes to Israel.

2) We dont use R-77 we use the RVV-AE which is the export model of R-77

3) The CAG always complains as it dosen't know jack about defense hardware.

4) Anyways the R-77 is the only option that we have got and no MRAAM is 100% accurate.
 
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3) The CAG always complains as it dosen't know jack about defense hardware.
Probably doing its job but I agree with on this. They have limited knowledge on military related issues.
 
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