India reached out to Pakistan for talks - revelations from NSA to PM Imran Khan in an interview

[Joe Shearer]

And no cases either on Republic TV, Zee News etc for inviting Pakistani guests and shouting them down.

Well, that's changed, at least for Republic TV. Not for Pakistani guests and the discourtesy to them, but for similar outrages on Indian citizens. They are in the doo-doo, up to their ears, and resentment and irritation pent up for months is finding expression.

Karma is ......what it is.

Actually, Indian content & news reports are no less than propaganda & lies.

ALL of it? come on, now.

We need to keep exposing Indian proxy wars in all neighbouring countries killing hundreds of innocent civilians. Isn't it shameful India killed school children???

Attacked Chinese Embassy??

Attacked Pakistan stock exchange?

It would be, if these were true. Making allegations in blustering tones is of no use whatsoever.

after Pakistan carried out a successful surgical strike LOC, Brigade HQ, Srinagar and undisclosed Maha Modi the terrorist of terror mata quietly trying back channels, and of course Modi will deny begging for mercy.

What a wonderful world of alternate reality! Much though Modi is a rotten human being, imposing attitudes and actions on him according to what we wish were true is unlikely to improve any understanding of the situation. It only panders to the self-importance of those who had fear and hatred for India, but now, for all the wrong reasons, have lost their fear and retain only hatred.

India is desperate for talks

It's come to a understanding that having Pakistan constantly trying to damage and destroy Indian interests is going to hurt India alot and India needs Pakistan to relent and even come on side

Wishful thinking, putting it mildly.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It's come to a understanding that having Pakistan constantly trying to damage and destroy Indian interests is going to hurt India alot and India needs Pakistan to relent and even come on side

What has been tried, unsuccessfully, for 72 years is unlikely to succeed now. Anybody with any sense of reality will understand that nothing has changed, other than Pakistan's increasingly poor image, with only Turkey and Malaysia and Big Brother as its allies, and the increasing lack of credibility of the political faction in power in Delhi - and that is not to be confused with Delhi, or with the Indian state, except by the do-it-by-numbers geopolitical analysts so widespread in cyberspace.

Where are the people that said Pakistan gave up Kashmir. @Pakistan Space Agency Willing to revert back on your flawed logic that IK government gave up Kashmir?
On topic a good snub by Pakistan. No talks with terrorist Modi.

Have you seen a beggar reject alms scornfully as being less than his self-respect demands?

Returning the status quo of J&K should be a basic prerequisite for talks.

Unfortunately, this cannot be a pre-requisite. It can, at best, be a hoped-for outcome.

I say this as a firm opponent of the attempted change of status (it is still under legal challenge).

But it is a positive step if dialogue is established, we had made many attempts before August 2019 to talk but found no mood for it in India.

That is perfectly correct, BUT those who hope for peace (I am among them) are fearful that this is a sop to the gallery of watching and listening countries paying close attention to the situation in South Asia. It is possible that the incompetent Chanakya wanna-be's think that making a gesture such as this will show that India is willing to talk, but Pakistan is intransigent. Sadly, it is not an unlikely conclusion by other observers, considering the assessment of the two parties by others.

This is the initiative we need to push that India must stop being a state sponsor of terrorism.

Did you just break the definition of irony into a zillion little pieces?

Due to Corona Indian economy badly hit . Almost 30 percent increase in poverty. Trade is dead slow. US shutdown all type of visa. Pakistani economy also badly hit due to Corona, but India has worst hit.

And.....?

India has to release all political prisoners in Kashmir, end inhuman blockade and restrictions, rescind domicile law that allows non-Kashmiris to settle in the disputed territory, stop human rights abuses and end state terrorism in Pakistan.

Even a staunch opponent of Modi and his administration, and an opponent of the draconian measures in the Vale, will be unable to agree that Pakistan, or any Pakistani entity, has any right to make any of the first four demands, that being a matter for internal resolution within the Indian state.

As for the fifth, it is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Joe Shearer]

On August 5, 2019, New Delhi had revoked Article 370 and 35-A of the Indian Constitution that gave Kashmir a special status. Pakistan condemned the move and termed it a violation of UN Security Council resolutions and bilateral agreements that sought to maintain status quo till the final settlement.

Nothing to do with the status quo has been disturbed; changes in internal Indian administration measures has nothing to do with the UNO or with claimants such as Pakistan and China.

The PM special assistant also spoke about Indian intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing’s (RAW's), involvement in terrorism in Pakistan.

“Pakistan had evidence that the mastermind of December 2014 APS terrorist attack in Peshawar was in contact with RAW,” he said.

This is in the highest degree unlikely. Mere loud and boisterous claims, in sharp contrast to the well-documented and substantially proven findings of the reverse, is unlikely to get any support.

These are simply efforts to restore an equation between the doings of the Pakistani state and India.

“Pakistan had evidence that the mastermind of December 2014 APS terrorist attack in Peshawar was in contact with RAW,” he said.

Many people happen to be in contact with many institutions at many times. Pakistan (and Pakistanis in authority) should be the first to understand and appreciate this. Saying that A has been in touch with B at some time or the other is very, very far from linking any action by A with the influence and encouragement of B. This is simply disingenuous.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The SAPM added that India used its missions in one of the neighbouring countries of Pakistan to facilitate and sponsor terrorist attack at a five-star Hotel in Gwadar, Chinese Consulate in Karachi and the Pakistan Stock Exchange.

“India spent $1 million to ensure the merger of different TTP factions in Afghanistan,” he added.

Projection is a well-studied, and well-understood psychological malaise.

Moeed added Prime Minister Imran Khan wanted a peaceful neighbourhood but India's expansionist and Hindutva policies were the main hurdles in the way of peace.

So we now brush under the carpet the over six decades of constant active and passive provocation, and constant and dangerous adventurism by the Pakistani establishment. Right, and we can feed the whole world by mining the blue cheese of which the Moon is constituted.

Reading this kind of stuff is irritating; the childishness of the claims is an insult to the intelligence of anybody who understands even a fraction of the past history of the relationship between the two countries.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Though the interview went well in part there were instances when Karan held too much of the screen and was using this to make sure his audience feel that he defended Indian poition well. He was less of a journalist and more of Godi media style prosecutor. However, I still believe Moeed could have been agressive, less defensive, and delinked GB from the UN resolutions and should have stated that PK has the right to listen to 80% of GB population who are clamouring for integration. Moeed should also have forcefully highlighted Indian complicity in terrorism within PK and the region from afghanistan to the caucus. Fincen report linking Indian banks to money laundering, criminality and terror. Also why keep inviting the arse Karan, is he some kind of god given arbitrator of truth. Karan like most Indians are nothing but sanghis with a great outside demanour for the west and terrorism and hate inside.

We can’t unilaterally ‘de-link’ GB from the UNSC Resolutions on the broader J&K dispute.

Moeed’s comments on GB were absolutely correct - any move Pakistan makes on any part of the disputed territory of J&K must be aligned with the UNSC Resolutions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

According to a statement issued by the foreign office, he reiterated Prime Minister Imran Khan’s stance that if India took one step forward, Pakistan would take two steps forward.

Do we have a single example of this having been done in the seven decades that we have for our study and examination? Or are we supposed to believe that everything has changed, once and for all, and through some miracle?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is in the highest degree unlikely.

That’s the Indian point of view, which is complete bullshite at this point.

Whether RAW or some other state or quasi-State entity, the Indian government/Indian institutions are involved.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As moeed mentioned in interview
That india onky wants talks to show the world that it is talking to Pakistan without really focusing on issues so we refused.

Possible.

And what was the Pakistani response? It was, correctly stated, to refuse. If your intention is to refuse, what does it matter why you refuse? There was not even the slightest effort to call Modi's bluff by agreeing to talks.

That’s the Indian point of view, which is complete bullshite at this point.

Not much to choose between the two stances. I can only regret that we are learning so rapidly from the Pakistani side.

Drawing a contrast between Pakistan and India, the PM’s aide said that the Pakistani government was dedicated to pursuing economic security and connectivity for the prosperity of Pakistan and the region, but policy makers in New Delhi remained blind sighted by Hindutva ideology. He said India had lost the neighbourhood because of the expansionist policies of the BJP government, while Pakistan was pursuing peace in its neighbourhood.

True.

It also remains true that while India's idiotic foreign policy has cost India hugely, Pakistan is still in pursuit. One can only commiserate with this sad situation.

Dr Yusuf also emphasised that Kashmiris remain the principal party in the dispute according to Pakistan and their wishes and aspirations should be addressed in any dialogue.

Is there any particular reason why one party, that has tried every means besides peaceful ones to master the situation and bring it to its own liking, should even now, after having failed consistently, be allowed to impose its rules on a dialogue between notional equals?

Responding to Indian allegations about terrorism, Dr Yusuf said that Pakistan had facilitated investigations in all cases pending in courts but India was delaying the investigations by not providing evidence in the case. He said not finding a resolution to terror cases helped India in its false narrative of terrorism. Dr Yusuf called out India for being unable to bring the perpetrators of the Samjhuta and Babri Masjid cases , Malegaon blast case and others to justice while it accused Pakistan of delays which spoke to double standards.

In the rather low-brow environment of the Internet and web-based conversations, this is described as 'whataboutery'.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Taking an aggressive approach towards Indian sponsored terrorism in Pakistan, the SAPM revealed new details about millions of dollars in payments made to TTP leadership by RAW officer through Indian Embassy funds. He said Pakistan knew the names and ranks of officers in touch with terror leadership and would soon reveal Indian activities to the world through a detailed dossier based on lengthy investigations. He also revealed that India had financed anti-Pakistan terrorist groups and supported their merger with the TTP earlier this year.

There are those among us who remember how a highly-placed Pakistani special envoy (Sartaj Aziz) waved around a supposed dossier on Indian intelligence activity in Balochistan, after Manmohan Singh had been tricked into accepting that it was a point for discussion. Immediately, Pakistan converted that concession into an invitation to draw up a charge-sheet, and what we hear today is a straightforward extrapolation of that gleeful seizing of an unexpected stroke of luck.

Again, today, a dossier is being waved around.

Is anyone supposed to take this seriously?

the principled stance of Pakistan on the Kashmir issue.

It is interesting to watch an alternate reality being built, pixel by pixel.

Indian sponsored terrorism was a taboo never spoken off anywhere within the Pakistani diplomatic circle yet alone taking it to the world stage and putting it bluntly as a precondition in front of India.

LOL.

For the simple reason that it never existed.

Do you seriously think that the fertile imagination of the Pakistani Ministry of External Affairs would have let go such an opportunity if there had been a particle of credibility in such a charge?

Making flatulent claims like this is not conducive to increase credibility of the claimant.

Not my country or military but if I was India I think what is the point of talking. They hate us. Under threat of a two front war you destroy/remove the weaker of the two threats in a massive attack.
Once China entered the dispute India was left with an unwinnable war. The way to change unwinnable to winnable it so eliminate one front and threat.

Precisely.

Poland and France.

And these displays of testosterone by the Pakistani side are only more encouragement for the hawks in the Indian establishment, of whom there are far too many.

Talking about the 2008 Mumbai attacks, the Pakistani national security adviser did not mince words in blaming India for the culprits not being punished severely, saying that India was, “deliberately delaying sending evidence and witnesses” as it wanted to use the issue to embarrass Pakistan in front of the world.

Paraphrase: Our people did a terrible thing, but thanks to you, we can't punish them as they ought to be punished.

Wonderful.

Please help me to hit myself hard.

We don't talk or negotiate with terrorist nations.
No sense in talking with a country which is completely taken over by a evil hateful extremist ideology.

It is indeed a pity that there is no internal dialogue within Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nope. That ship has sailed. The snakes cannot be trusted with status quos any more. Freedom for Kashmir, hard border with India,drones, guard towers, keep them out.

....drones, guard towers, keep them out.

Right, go ahead. Nobody would welcome it more than Indian border guards. Nobody would welcome it less than the hapless managers of the Pakistani economy.

I love the way that you use the word 'snakes' sitting in the corner that tried repeatedly to win its point by clandestine action.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

....drones, guard towers, keep them out.

Right, go ahead. Nobody would welcome it more than Indian border guards. Nobody would welcome it less than the hapless managers of the Pakistani economy.

I love the way that you use the word 'snakes' sitting in the corner that tried repeatedly to win its point by clandestine action.

Welcome back. The place just isn't the same without your excessively parched ironic quips.

 

[IceCold]

LOL.

For the simple reason that it never existed.

Do you seriously think that the fertile imagination of the Pakistani Ministry of External Affairs would have let go such an opportunity if there had been a particle of credibility in such a charge?

Making flatulent claims like this is not conducive to increase credibility of the claimant.

Jadhav would disagree.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Welcome back. The place just isn't the same without your excessively parched ironic quips.

LOL.

That parched irony reflects physical debility rather than a refinement of sensibility. I have to get my points across quickly, before I cave in.

Jadhav would disagree.

We will know only when the thumbscrews are removed, and he is finally returned.