India persuading Karzai govt for US attack in tribal areas

[BATMAN]

India persuading Afghanistans Karzai govt for US attack in tribal areas of Pakistan
http://www.uniquepakistan.com/news/...ack-in-tribal-areas-of-pakistan-20080111.html

The Indian lobby is reported to have intensified its activities behind the scenes to persuade the Karzai government to cry for a US attack in the tribal areas of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan.
It is Washington's long-cherished desire to get the US and NATO forces involved in the tribal areas by physical occupation of the entire
tribal belt, but frontline ally President Pervez Musharraf's convincing
argument that the US military intervention would be against the
American interests in the war on terror is holding the US back.
Though Afghanistan-based US forces had entered Pakistan territory in its tribal areas several times in the past and carried out some military operations, the US officials always apologised to Islamabad after Pakistan's strong protest. Islamabad convinced Washington that US military intervention would not only weaken its key ally but also strengthen the Taliban. The US has limitations and there are slim chances that it will send its forces in Pakistan to counter militancy. Of these limitations, Pakistan's sovereignty and its strategic significance stand at the top. Despite pressure from the Karzai government, the US opted for "do more" policy instead of military intervention. Musharraf toed the 'do more' US line and sacrificed more than 600 Pakistan army officers and soldiers in the two tribal agencies of Waziristan thereby winning over President Bush.
However, of late the US threat of military intervention in Pakistan does not seem to be a Washington initiative but it is the Kabul-based Indian lobby pressing the Karzai government to favour a US attack on Pakistan.First Karzai began the blame game against Islamabad shifting the entire responsibility of militancy to Pakistan and claiming Osama's presence in the tribal areas of Pakistan. Political analysts viewed it as the reflection of Indian
lobbying. Some analysts did not hesitate to go beyond it, coming out
with the opinion that all what is being said against Pakistan by Karazai is his master's voice to exert pressure on Islamabad to do more against the militants or for that matter pave the way for military intervention in tribal areas of Pakistan on the pretext of hot pursuits of al Qaeda and Taliban.
Indian army officers and intelligence men planted in the Indian embassy in Kabul and consulates in Jalalabad and other places have developed their contacts in the tribal areas.
Some reports are also emanating from Afghanistan claiming that Indian
military officers have been deployed in Afghan military uniform across the Kunar-Bajaur border.When Pakistan came into existence, India funded then Afghan government to raise voice for Pakhtunistan to stir trouble in the tribal and settled areas of NWFP. It resulted in tensed relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan at government level but at people's level there was hardly any move for Pakhtunistan on either side.
The issue of Pakhtunistan itself buried and the two countries came together in Afghan war against the Soviet aggression and occupation of Afghanistan.

Now India has developed its wishful thinking for Pakhtunistan. Keeping in view the countrywide turmoil in Pakistan, it is pressing the Karzai government to call on the US to enter tribal areas.The Afghan General Mohammad Zahir Azimi, the Defence Ministry spokesman said, "Terrorism is like a spring. It is better to go to the main source than to fight from distance". But the Pakistani side argues with heavy weight that the main source of the spring is Afghanistan where the Taliban emerged and spread out. The main source of terrorism is in Afghanistan and not in Pakistan. Had Pakistan been the main source of terrorism, the US would not have bombed Afghanistan.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Given the cosying up with the US in the military and economic arena, India would be the last one to lead the US on a garden path to ensure that it runs into a quagmire and loses face!

The article is another of the journalistic 'nugget' that has of late proliferated to boost sales with sensational garbage.

India is well conversant with High Altitude Warfare and is well aware of the military watchword, "Mountains eat up troops". The US does not have enough troops to undertake what is on the agenda, so where is the feasibility to pump in troops in what would be an endless chasm.

Pure journalistic skulduggery for the sensation starved!

Apparently, the author, has no clue about Mountain Warfare, let alone any knowledge of High Altitude Warfare.

However, it is a good copy for the uninitiated and the gullible, who will lap it up and worry their intestines out!

 

[IceCold]

The article is another of the journalistic 'nugget' that has of late proliferated to boost sales with sensational garbage.

Sensational garbage!Why? Because facts that differ from that of indians are always prone to such remarks. Why would they be any different this time

 

[IceCold]

This is the reason i say that the time has come to take a clear stand against afghanistan. We need to do something about Karzai and his government, maybe give him a taste of his own medicine.

 

[KENT]

At this point of time when nation's economics boom is at a peak, why does it need to create turmoil in its own Neighborhood.

 

[solid snake]

As we say, kuttay bhunktay hain tu bhunknay do. Karzai and his Indian friends can try all they want, but the US military neither has the will nor the resources to undertake a war with Pakistan.

 

[Goodperson]

But how can India persuade Afganisthan ? Afganisthan and Pakistan have much more in Common even border.
India many times has to request Pakistan for transit passage to Afghanistan?
then how can India influence Afghanistan? I fail to understand.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sensational garbage!Why? Because facts that differ from that of indians are always prone to such remarks. Why would they be any different this time

Not because it differs from that of the Indians. It is so, because it is unmitigated and unadulterated garbage!

I have given the reasons in my post, but I will clarify further.

One of the tenets of military thought is - The Mountains Eat up Troops! Since you require a Pakistani example, I will give it. How many troops are deployed in the Afghanistan - Pakistan border? About 90,000? Don't believe me on that figure, just believe your own Foreign Minister.

Pakistan will deploy 10,000 more troops along the Afghan border, which will take the total number of troops there to 90,000, Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri said.
Pakistan to deploy more troops on Afghan border: FM

And is that huge numbers been successful?

No.

If they had, then the terrorists would have not been able to come and go at will and cause the mayhem and carnage, apart from destablilising Pakistan.

Therefore, apart from you and the author of the article everyone knows that Mountains Eat up Troops and the US and NATO does not have the numbers to combat Pakistani forces in the area or defend the borders even if they hypothetically get some success.

Another issue is a secure Line of Communication. Kargil failed for Pakistan because no thought was given to this major aspect that is not very glitzy for the Tactician.

I am not getting into finer details since this forum is not adequate to teach military tactics and strategy.

This fact is so basic and axiomatic, that no fool would recommend the same and no fool will be fooled into accepting the same that an attack be launched with a manpower deficit, no matter how great the technology backup one has!

To reinforce further, if attacking in the mountains was so easy as you and the author imagine, the Kashmir would have gone either way and not hung fire for such a long time!

Therefore, the article is kite-flying, sensational garbage and only for the uninitiated and for the fevered brain that is grasping for excused to cover the unfortunate fate the country has got embroiled in!!

 

[Awesome]

Given the cosying up with the US in the military and economic arena, India would be the last one to lead the US on a garden path to ensure that it runs into a quagmire and loses face!

The article is another of the journalistic 'nugget' that has of late proliferated to boost sales with sensational garbage.

India is well conversant with High Altitude Warfare and is well aware of the military watchword, "Mountains eat up troops". The US does not have enough troops to undertake what is on the agenda, so where is the feasibility to pump in troops in what would be an endless chasm.

Pure journalistic skulduggery for the sensation starved!

Apparently, the author, has no clue about Mountain Warfare, let alone any knowledge of High Altitude Warfare.

However, it is a good copy for the uninitiated and the gullible, who will lap it up and worry their intestines out!

Oh you're forgetting, the Americans don't go in on foot, they bomb from the air.

They went on foot in Iraq and I'm sure they won't be thinking of doing that for a few decades again.

I think if Americans were ready to use ground troops to clear out AQ from the mountains, Pakistan would've long negotiated a framework to do something like that. Americans want to use intense air support and then they go around blasting innocent villagers and farmers (at this point I like to remind you the Bajaur incident).

See if the Americans really want to go into the tribal areas for a clean up job they should come up and say "Ok fine, we'll take all the ultimate risks, and even if we get killed we'll do our attacks in a way where we don't cause mayhem and genocide".

I mean are the Americans seriously willing to take some rifles and go clear up town by town, hill by hill without using missiles and planes?

 

[Awesome]

When the Americans say we want to attack in Pakistan and clear out the AQ, they are actually saying "Can we go in and slaughter Pakistanis left and right?" Basically the American war planners are thinking along the lines of, if we kill everyone over there, that would effectively end the entire militancy.

Quite frankly the method of conflict resolution that the Americans have is the only one guaranteed to work. It's unacceptable to us, its very tempting to them.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Oh you're forgetting, the Americans don't go in on foot, they bomb from the air.

Asim,

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

The proof of success is capturing real estate and holding on to it!

The Allies bombed the hell out of Germany from the air, but it was only after Berlin was physically captured was it accepted as a victory!

They went on foot in Iraq and I'm sure they won't be thinking of doing that for a few decades again.

If they don't, then it would not be termed as an attack. Merely devastation from the air!

I think if Americans were ready to use ground troops to clear out AQ from the mountains, Pakistan would've long negotiated a framework to do something like that. Americans want to use intense air support and then they go around blasting innocent villagers and farmers (at this point I like to remind you the Bajaur incident).

It is well nigh impossible to clear anything from the mountains.

Remember, the mountains can hide the enemy in its many crags, nooks and forests , unlike in the plains.

See if the Americans really want to go into the tribal areas for a clean up job they should come up and say "Ok fine, we'll take all the ultimate risks, and even if we get killed we'll do our attacks in a way where we don't cause mayhem and genocide".

Why should they?

The third world will do it for them. They will foot the bill. Why do you think that the UN troops are rarely westerners and why is it only India, Pakistan and Bangladesh? And we puff our chests out with false moral pride that we are the gun fodder for western interests!!

I mean are the Americans seriously willing to take some rifles and go clear up town by town, hill by hill without using missiles and planes?

NO chance!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

When the Americans say we want to attack in Pakistan and clear out the AQ, they are actually saying "Can we go in and slaughter Pakistanis left and right?" Basically the American war planners are thinking along the lines of, if we kill everyone over there, that would effectively end the entire militancy.

Quite frankly the method of conflict resolution that the Americans have is the only one guaranteed to work. It's unacceptable to us, its very tempting to them.

All this is political sledging and nothing more!

 

[mujahideen]

Out of the four neighbors Pakistan has two are our enemies and two are our friends. India and Afghanistan have dispised Pakistan since the day it was created and have always tried to destablize Pakistan. Now China we all know about is a friend of friends and Iran was very close to us before the 1980s. Iran was the first country to recognize Pakistan and during the 1965 and 1971 wars many people are not aware of Irans help to Pakistan. Our jets use to take off from Iran and land their. But unfortunately Iran started to move further away from us in the 1980s due to the pro-Sunni policies of President Zia-ul-Haq and also the pro-Shitte policies of of Khomanie.

 

[roadrunner]

When the Americans say we want to attack in Pakistan and clear out the AQ, they are actually saying "Can we go in and slaughter Pakistanis left and right?" Basically the American war planners are thinking along the lines of, if we kill everyone over there, that would effectively end the entire militancy.

Quite frankly the method of conflict resolution that the Americans have is the only one guaranteed to work. It's unacceptable to us, its very tempting to them.

I don't think so. Even if America bombs the hell out of the tribal areas, so what? It will make things worse for them. The Soviets tried that with the Afghan mujahideen, it didn't get them very far. The tribal terrain is probably more rugged. What it will do is destabilize the situation even more and weaken the central government. It's not really something the US is stupid enough to do, and it is not worth them doing so. What does Pakistan have in the way of oil..not much, and it is willing to play ball with TAP. So they need to have a stable Pakistan for themselves. Not even more anti US radicals in the region.

 

[Black Stone]

India and Afghanistan have dispised Pakistan since the day it was created and have always tried to destablize Pakistan. Now China we all know about is a friend of friends and Iran was very close to us before the 1980s.

I agree with this. I doubt Iran would be of any use to Pakistan as their future is uncertain.