India: Pakistan sees no reason to stop supporting terrorists

[chinapakistan]

if there is a shortage then the burden will be shared equally by both India and Pakistan...
(also always keep in mind, if ur frnd China and you together plan anything that causes water shortage in India to harm India then i cannot guarantee above...)

Are you talking about you can guarantee what you said under some condition? Sir, Are you PM of india.

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

Are you talking about you can guarantee what you said under some condition? Sir, Are you PM of india.

... are nai yar... i meant to say then i am not sure what India would do in that scenario with respect to the water sharing...and it could be tough decision at that time...
but i hope India, China, Pakistan and all the rest of other countries continue to get the water they need...no country should try to use it as a means of hurting the other country progress and also it is necessary to maintain peace....or else all countries will be affected ....!!

 

[karan.1970]

So I guess the decision to interfere in Pakistan's internal matters in 71 was taken by the civilized Indian public via a poll?
Not all decisions are taken by the people of a country...sometimes a decision is taken by few and is only seen right and wrong in light of the result it achieves, this is something a student of history will observe a lot.

Now coming to the topic; Kashmir is an issue for Pakistan and wars have been fought over it, expecting Kashmir to be a non issue is not realistic.
Unless the issue is resolved India and Pakistan can never be at ease.

It is a fact and acknowledged even in India that Musharraf cracked down on LET and the cross border violations reduced dramatically, this was supposed to end the era where militancy was not being checked due to diplomatic failures over a genuine issue.
For peace and sake of common sense this was to be reciprocated by India in terms of serious talks to resolve the dispute...this has not happened till now.

In the meantime LET has regrouped and is currently fighting Pakistan Army, i do not know which LET is the author expressing his opinion about.
LET is helping Al Qaeda and attempted to instigate a war between India and Pakistan...this nearly happened.
There are many indigenous terrorist movements in India, it makes no sense for Pakistan to send in a Pakistani troop of terrorists with their papers and carry out such an attack so openly, even TTP in Pakistan is more careful in its planning.
The only explanation is that this was a deliberate ploy by the terrorists to carry out an attack seen to be a Pakistani state sponsored attack.
It cannot be work of Pakistani agencies who shall never want to open multiple fronts when dealing with terrorist networks in FATA, not to mention that killing of civilians does not create a positive sentiment for any country...such open disregard for fairly basic strategic insight is not to be expected of GOP and ISI.
The whole issue caused a severe backlash for Pakistan and this was not something unexpected, it was expected and this is what the terrorists wanted to achieve.
On top of all this India has zero evidence linking Pakistani agencies with this attack.

The sad fact is that Indian leaders are ignoring this logic and want to use these chaotic times in Pakistan to gain maximum leverage over all key issues.
Everything is now tied to dismantling terrorist networks, has India been so successful in removing the networks in its own countries that it considers this to be a pre condition in talking to Pakistan?
Is it not a convenient excuse to avoid dialogue?
Pakistan is fighting a most intense war with the terrorists and many key decisions have already been taken by our government.

Everyone knows it is not a piece of cake and a matter which shall take years to resolve completely given that situation in Pak-Afghan belt.

This opinionated article is quite off the mark.

Agree to most of your post above. The only variation in my view is following

While formally the state agencies may not be involved in festering terrorism via LeT in India, there certainly are high ranking individuals (active or retired) with considerable influence, who prop up and support LeT like organizations. Imagine when a lot of us on this forum ( and I guess most of us are mild every day common people) are not able to get away from the effects of decades of hate, its all the more difficult for people who actually lived that hate and were actively invovled in wars and conflicts that resulted from it. Its unrealistic to hope that all of such people in considerably high influence position would simply give up or suspend their fight against India.

So even though the Pakistani State may not be a willing party to this terror nexus, its also naive to think that this nexus is not supported at a personal level by highly influential people within the state machinery. Without that its impossible for LeT to accomplish what it does..

After all unlike TTP and AT its not based out of NWFP but operates from near the key population centers of Pakistan.

 

[All-Green]

coz it did not cause, coz international court held that India has not violated treaty which means Pakistan is DEFINATELTY gettting its due share of water... so no reason to raise hue n cry UNNECESSARILY...



if there is a shortage, do u want India alone to suffer and continue to give Pakistan its full share...!!

if there is a shortage then the burden will be shared equally by both India and Pakistan...
(also always keep in mind, if ur frnd China and you together plan anything that causes water shortage in India to harm India then i cannot guarantee above...)

I do not need your guarantees, so do not fret over it.

I think the height of one of the waterworks was asked to be reduced so it is not like India was doing everything by the book.

One of the issues was the stoppage of water in times of the sowing of seasonal crops...this had drastic impact on the yield.

Also the major concerns are regarding the future projects which are planned or underway.
Also the data sharing of the water situation in rivers is being done reluctantly and is one of the concerns Pakistan has shown.
These very concerns are on top of Pakistan's agenda for talks with India.
Pakistan needs better visibility on the Indian plans so as to ascertain what it needs to do being a downstream party.

It is not a crisis yet, however there are genuine concerns of Pakistan and the best forum is high level talks which are being held ransom to war on terror.

To say that Pakistan has no genuine concern is not at all right, Pakistan has concerns which can be addressed, however by not talking at high level the issue will become one of severe mistrust and can be disastrous for future.

 

[Solomon2]

So I guess the decision to interfere in Pakistan's internal matters in 71 was taken by the civilized Indian public via a poll? Not all decisions are taken by the people of a country...sometimes a decision is taken by few and is only seen right and wrong in light of the result it achieves, this is something a student of history will observe a lot.

Do Pakistanis ever ask themselves what actions their country's leaders have taken to create enemies and perpetuate conflict?

Kashmir is an issue for Pakistan and wars have been fought over it, expecting Kashmir to be a non issue is not realistic. Unless the issue is resolved India and Pakistan can never be at ease.

Does Pakistan really want it resolved, or are Pakistani leaders satisfied with a perpetually hostile and unconstructive stance? Because of the activities of "Pakistani infiltrators" (the U.S. State Department's language) India can't withdraw its forces to let Kashmir determine its own fate, as per U.N. resolutions and Kashmiris' desire; it would mean an almost immediate takeover by Pakistani forces.

LeT is currently in conflict with the PA, but training has moved to Punjab, so in a few years it's easy to surmise that another division-strength outfit will be in action in Kashmir and along the Indian border - unless Pakistan decides otherwise.

The sad fact is that Indian leaders are ignoring this logic and want to use these chaotic times in Pakistan to gain maximum leverage over all key issues.

Why should Indian leaders show flexibility as long as Pakistan is busy scoring own goals and discrediting itself? If Pakistani leaders renounced terror as a tactic, confessed to past nefarious activities, and then offered to talk to resolve Kashmir, that would really put India in a diplomatic bind. Then the ball would be in India's court.

Yet what kind of public support can Pakistani leaders count on for such a policy with India? How many Pakistanis at PDF would support it?

 

[SMC]

Here we go again. Indians doing exactly what they accuse Pakistanis of. Hypocrites of the highest order.

 

[Peregrine]

U dont even deny the presense of so called non state actors in ur country.... One is openly shouting war cries in the streets.... Bunch of followers for him too.

hi,
are u sure this isn't happening in your peace loving country

in Pakistan some one is shouting but in yours some one is whining

 

[mjnaushad]

Do Pakistanis ever ask themselves what actions their country's leaders have taken to create enemies and perpetuate conflict?

Did you ever asked your govt why 9/11 happend.

Does Pakistan really want it resolved, or are Pakistani leaders satisfied with a perpetually hostile and unconstructive stance? Because of the activities of "Pakistani infiltrators" (the U.S. State Department's language) India can't withdraw its forces to let Kashmir determine its own fate, as per U.N. resolutions and Kashmiris' desire; it would mean an almost immediate takeover by Pakistani forces.

It do not need to withdraw its forces just for one referendum. But after the result.

LeT is currently in conflict with the PA, but training has moved to Punjab, so in a few years it's easy to surmise that another division-strength outfit will be in action in Kashmir and along the Indian border - unless Pakistan decides otherwise.

Who told you this top secret. Its not the camps, its your brain filled with Anti pakistan propaganda from those news channels who write truth by sitting in their room thousands miles away.

 

[Abhiras]

It do not need to withdraw its forces just for one referendum. But after the result.

No referendum can occur......it is against our constitution ...Unlike pakistan occupied kashmir(no pakistan constitution is applied to them)....indian kashmir is the integral part of india...& therefore it is abide by Indian constitution
& indian constitution will never allow referendum

 

[pak-yes]

Wooo what are Zionists doing in this thread.

Koi to gaga chor diya karo is zameen par(At least Spare someone on earth).

 

[illuminatidinesh]

hi,
are u sure this isn't happening in your peace loving country

Noooooooooooo dude..... And who is whining? See U dont even deny what i said.

 

[Peregrine]

Noooooooooooo dude..... And who is whining? See U dont even deny what i said.

Hi,
LoL, Atleast i am modest enough! but i only have this to say "Thats the spirit when you see some solid proof just say what?? oh i didnt see anything" and may be it will come true

 

[All-Green]

Agree to most of your post above. The only variation in my view is following

While formally the state agencies may not be involved in festering terrorism via LeT in India, there certainly are high ranking individuals (active or retired) with considerable influence, who prop up and support LeT like organizations. Imagine when a lot of us on this forum ( and I guess most of us are mild every day common people) are not able to get away from the effects of decades of hate, its all the more difficult for people who actually lived that hate and were actively invovled in wars and conflicts that resulted from it. Its unrealistic to hope that all of such people in considerably high influence position would simply give up or suspend their fight against India.

So even though the Pakistani State may not be a willing party to this terror nexus, its also naive to think that this nexus is not supported at a personal level by highly influential people within the state machinery. Without that its impossible for LeT to accomplish what it does..

After all unlike TTP and AT its not based out of NWFP but operates from near the key population centers of Pakistan.

No guarantees for personal level, on personal level there may be help to TTP from Indians as well.

I am talking about the State fighting a clear cut battle, there are traitors in every country but the fact is that in the current scenario, Pakistan is enemy number one of all organizations including LET which is actively fighting Pakistan Army even in FATA.
The LET is not operating out of Punjab, it is providing help to Al Qaeda using its few activists in Punjab but the HQ was shifted in Musharraf era when he started the crackdown on LET.
The Lashkar e Jhangvi and Lashkar e Taiba have shifted in FATA in last few years when pressure was applied in Punjab.

Atleast the thousands killed in Pakistan and in Punjab as well clearly indicate what is happening.
I do not think there is any more in the way of evidence or indicators that India needs in order to be assured about Pakistan's stand as far as militant groups are concerned.

The last two years have shown that GOP is dead serious in fight against militancy.

 

[karan.1970]

No guarantees for personal level, on personal level there may be help to TTP from Indians as well.

I am talking about the State fighting a clear cut battle, there are traitors in every country but the fact is that in the current scenario, Pakistan is enemy number one of all organizations including LET which is actively fighting Pakistan Army even in FATA.
The LET is not operating out of Punjab, it is providing help to Al Qaeda using its few activists in Punjab but the HQ was shifted in Musharraf era when he started the crackdown on LET.
The Lashkar e Jhangvi and Lashkar e Taiba have shifted in FATA in last few years when pressure was applied in Punjab.

Atleast the thousands killed in Pakistan and in Punjab as well clearly indicate what is happening.
I do not think there is any more in the way of evidence or indicators that India needs in order to be assured about Pakistan's stand as far as militant groups are concerned.

The last two years have shown that GOP is dead serious in fight against militancy.

Again agree to most of it. The problem which is also making this fight so difficult for Pakistan is that unlike India, the clout of military is significantly higher than the civilian govt in the matters of external affairs. Hence an influential military officer can cause a significant amount of damage by deciding to promote such groups.

 

[All-Green]

Do Pakistanis ever ask themselves what actions their country's leaders have taken to create enemies and perpetuate conflict?

Does Pakistan really want it resolved, or are Pakistani leaders satisfied with a perpetually hostile and unconstructive stance? Because of the activities of "Pakistani infiltrators" (the U.S. State Department's language) India can't withdraw its forces to let Kashmir determine its own fate, as per U.N. resolutions and Kashmiris' desire; it would mean an almost immediate takeover by Pakistani forces.

LeT is currently in conflict with the PA, but training has moved to Punjab, so in a few years it's easy to surmise that another division-strength outfit will be in action in Kashmir and along the Indian border - unless Pakistan decides otherwise.

Why should Indian leaders show flexibility as long as Pakistan is busy scoring own goals and discrediting itself? If Pakistani leaders renounced terror as a tactic, confessed to past nefarious activities, and then offered to talk to resolve Kashmir, that would really put India in a diplomatic bind. Then the ball would be in India's court.

Yet what kind of public support can Pakistani leaders count on for such a policy with India? How many Pakistanis at PDF would support it?

First of all Solomon2 you need to check the facts regarding 71 and Kashmir issue.
Ofcourse I shall answer you questions despite some answers already in my post...

I am open to discussions and so are most Pakistanis on this board.
However when Pakistan is unilaterally blamed for every issue then i have a huge problem with that.

Did i say Pakistan did not make any mistake regarding Bangla Desh.
Many Pakistanis on this very forum agree to this and blame our failure as a primary cause.
What else can there be in way of self realization and self acknowledgement?
Many nations on this earth never admit to their wrongdoings, atleast i see many Pakistanis admit the mistakes of their past leadership and acknowledge the result it had on Pakistan.
However it would be absolutely foolish to disregard the Indian role as mere moral support...India was involved in training the Mukti Bahni and aiding them via active covert support.
Still Pakistanis for the most part are not in denial mode regarding 71...

Not all conflicts are easily resolved, mostly one party is so weak as to not make any stand and eventually the issue is resolved.
In this case both countries are strong enough to cause a prolonged indecisive conflict which is precisely what has happened.
It is not self created by Paksitanis, Kashmir is something which is a genuine issue.
The Kashmiri withdrawal was to be done and it was agreed that Pakistan and India would maintain some troops in their parts of the occupied territory.
Pakistan agreed to the UN recommended figure whereas India objected and demanded that it be allowed more troops, this was seen as a direct military disparity being demanded by India and so Pakistan did not unilaterally withdraw which was common sense and would have been done by any party.
Currently there is no threat to India in Kashmir militarily since India has actually an overwhelming number of troops in Kashmir, why you think India is so helpless is beyond me.

LET was forged around the era of the Afghan Jihad, in those days there was a fertile ground for LET to survive since it was the global Jihad era, they were helped by the fact that Kashmir was an unresolved issue...
Musharraf cracked down on LET hard and this was all as part of agreement with India to stop militancy and instead engage in dialogue.
The space has been denied to LET in the past decade but in last 2 years they have been in perpetual war with the state of Pakistan and have been instrumental on planning attacks on Army.
The reason is that their haven was FATA and when this was attacked they launched their most potent attacks on Pakistan.

Pakistani leaders never supported terror as a state policy so for them to say sorry for terrorism is not going to happen.
Yes Pakistan did support the Kashmiri cause, just as India supported the Bangladeshi freedom movement.
What PAksitani leaders could do was to say ok we want to talk and we shall not support militants against India so let us resolve the Issue.
You go and read what happened in Musharraf era, he engaged in dialogue, he presented alternate solutions and promised to cut down on cross border attacks... he did deliver on his promise and cracked down on such organizations.
However now i hear comments like that was a fake promise or that he did nothing...absolutely unfair, he did a lot of things but at the end of the day the fact remains that India does not want to talk about it.

Mumbai was a tragedy but the fact is that it was so open and so away from Kashmir, there is no semblance of any logic for Pakistan to plan such an attack which is purely terrorist in nature and with Pakistani nationals who are caught and have identification and papers with them.
Does any intelligence agency worth its salt plan such an attack against all sense even if it is cruel enough to consider terrorism against civilians as a valid option?
The fact of the matter is that Mumbai was something that LET did to instigate a Pak India war which nearly happened.
The operation was not limited to Pakistan/India but support was in other countries too.
If LET does it again since it is working with Al Qaeda and is linked to an international network, does it mean we lose all sense and give them what they want?

Sense should prevail and both countries need to talk to build an environment where the cooperation is unprecedented.

Pakistan is ready to talk and Pakistanis want the issue resolved, however it took some steps regarding Kashmir which are totally unappreciated by India after Mumbai, this is unfair to Pakistan which did crack down hard on militancy and made life much easy for India in Kashmir so as to facilitate a resolution via peaceful means.

Too much blood has been shed and we want to see peace...it is as simple as that.