India Pakistan Comparison 2010

[deckingraj]

Here come the trolls!

That amount, if it is due from Pakistan to India, can be deducted from the much larger amounts due to Pakistan on account of the equipment and resources never handed over to the newly independent state on account of Indian theft of the same. So please deduct this small amount and hand us the rest.

Thank you very much.

Did you read the very first line i wrote??? Or pressing the reply button in hurry is a habit?? Let me repeat for your convenience...

Guys since we are talking about Loans, Aids and what not i found this interesting news..Not sure how true it is but no doubt about being I interesting!!!

I am sure this news must have been discussed in length however since i was stumped thought nothing wrong in making a few more like me

I would have asked for some source of your big claims but then no point in highjacking the thread..So Chill...

 

[TechLahore]

I am sorry but i disagree...One has to find out the reason behind the numbers otherwise there is a huge risk of misleading and getting mislead.... Just a simple example

If i borrow money from Person X and meet my monthly expenditure better than Person Y then that does not make me better than Person Y even though looking at numbers i look better...

I am sure you would agree that Fixing fiscal deficit is not peace of cake and that too at the time of recession...As karan mentioned that Pakistan fiscal deficit was a whopping 7.3% of GDP prior to IMF bailout simply states the sorry state of Fiscal Deficit in Pakistan...No doubt they have to work far more than Indian counterparts to keep the Genie in the bottle...

Ok, if we're looking at the past then please review the following:

"Half the story: India is trying to tidy up its finances and free funds for projects to create jobs and promote sustainable economic growth.

The federal deficit is only half the story. The combined states’ and central deficit was 7.5 percent of GDP in 2005/06.

Morgan Stanley estimates the combined deficit to be 6.8 percent in 2006/07 and including off-budget items such as oil and electricity subsidies, it is closer to 8.5 percent. "

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

If 7.3% is "whopping" then 8.5 percent must be devastating!!

 

[TechLahore]

I would have asked for some source of your big claims but then no point in highjacking the thread..So Chill...

Aik to chori, upar say seena zoree. Please ask me for sources. I am happy to provide them.

India stole almost 90 aircraft from Pakistan at the time of partition:

Pakistan Air Force - 1

India stole hundreds of thousands of tons of other stores from Pakistan:

http://www.rosedog.com/file.asp?vpa...-C867-4BBB-B62A-2C1FD09A5B4F/AyubMuhammad.pdf

[Sir Claude] Auchinleck remarked:

“I have no hesitation in affirming that the present Indian Cabinet owe implacably determined to do all in their power to prevent the establishment of Dominion of Pakistan on a firm basis. In this I am supported by unanimous opinion of my senior officers and indeed by all responsible British officers cognizant of the situation.

Since the 15th of August… The Indian leaders…Cabinet minsters, civil officials and others have Persistently tried to obstruct the work of partition of ‘armed forces’… Their aim is to prevent Pakistan receiving her just share or indeed anything Of the large stocks of reserve arms, equipment, stores held in the arsenals and depots in India. This is an open secret.”


Air Marshal (r) Inam Khan:

To destabilize [Pakistan] they further withheld Pakistan’s share of treasury, military equipment, ordnance [and] all other assets. I know junk IAF aircraft were passed on to Pakistan Air Force as its share. Tiger Moth light training aircraft, when being flown to Karachi from Jodhpur, had sugar put in [its] fuel tanks, engines ceasing after a while thus forcing them to crash land.

Why and How of Pakistan’s Creation : Planet Earth

 

[deckingraj]

Ok, if we're looking at the past then please review the following:

"Half the story: India is trying to tidy up its finances and free funds for projects to create jobs and promote sustainable economic growth.

The federal deficit is only half the story. The combined states’ and central deficit was 7.5 percent of GDP in 2005/06.

Morgan Stanley estimates the combined deficit to be 6.8 percent in 2006/07 and including off-budget items such as oil and electricity subsidies, it is closer to 8.5 percent. "

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

If 7.3% is "whopping" then 8.5 percent must be devastating!!

And you were calling me troll??? What are we discussing here??? A federal Deficit or a combined Deficit??? India's fiscal deficit was 3.17% against a whopping 7.5% in her neighbourhood.....Now if you want to go beyong federal deficit then compare the correct figures...What is the point of pulling numbers just for the sake of proving your point???

Anyways here is another interesting article for you..and this time latest...

The cost overrun in security expenditure as well as massive shortfall in both tax and non-tax revenue targets forced Islamabad to request the IMF executive board to grant it waiver from achieving the fiscal deficit target of 0.4 per cent of the GDP till March 31, 2010.

Pakistan seeks IMF waiver on fiscal deficit target


Another one ...I hope IMF projections are wrong...

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=202870

 

[TechLahore]

Another one ...I hope IMF projections are wrong...

Pakistan to have flat growth, more fiscal deficit in 2010: IMF

To the contrary, I hope the IMF's projections as per below are spot on!

Masood Ahmed, IMF Director of Middle Eastern and Central Asian Division: " in three to five years Pakistan, strongly growing on the structural reforms path, can also catch a growth rate of 8 percent"

Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily]

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[Hutchroy]

You were the one who brought Pakistan into the equation. I just pointed out that India has asked for more money than Pakistan has. If you want to call it begging then that just reflects on your thought processes... to each his own.

1. Please let me know whence I have specifically referred to "Pakistan's Begging".

2. Remeber that India is now Seven Times in terms Population as Pakistan is India's Borrowings should be larger - Is it Seven Times that of Pakistan's?

You must appreciate that in the Early Ninteen Fifties India's Population was possibly Ten Times that of Present day Pakistan. As such if in the last Sixty Years India has Borrowed - by ways of Aid and Loans - more than Eight and Half times as much as Pakistan then one can state that India has Borrowed more than Pakistan.

Now please tell us how much India and Pakistan have Borrowed over the Last Sixty Years.

Then we are talking!

 

[RiazHaq]

Pakistan's current account balance is negative $2.4 billion, while India's is negative $8.4 billion. Both need help in closing this gap.

These reported current account balance figures include a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

 

[RiazHaq]

1. Aid and Loan is different. Aid and soft loans are different. Loan and soft loans are different only in the nature of rate of interest.
2. India was in bad shape and so was Pakistan during the initial period of Independence. Aid = begging was a state that we were left with as the rule before Indian independence was colonial in nature that was sapping our wealth.
3. Any comparison with India and Pakistan should be done with due consideration to the size of India to the aid it received. i.e., aid per unit area and aid compared to GDP of the country.
4. India has a distinction of having a squeky clean record in terms of repayment of debt for soft loans from international bodies. About aid that is given by countries to increase their influence in India by funding NGO's is outside the purview of the Government of India and same is the case with Pakistan.
5. Direct aid for development between India and Pakistan today or in the recent past shows the de hyphenation of India from Pakistan.

According to OECD group of the aid donor nations, the words "aid" and "assistance" refer to flows which qualify as Official Development Assistance (ODA) or Official Aid (OA). Such OA or ODA aid includes both grants and soft loans given by OECD nations and multi-lateral institutions like the World Bank, Asian Development Bank, IMF, etc.

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade.

Haq's Musings: Foreign Aid Continues to Pour in Resurgent India

 

[karan.1970]

The numbers are what they are. If you think by focusing on the reasons you ascribe to the numbers you can feel better about them, then please go ahead. The fact remains that Pakistan's budget is more balanced than India's at this point in time. That is a conclusion that requires nothing more than a basic application of arithmetic.

@TL.. not doubting the numbers or intending to feel good or bad about them. Just questioning your statement where you say that the deficit situation is better in Pakistan even in a bad state of economy. In my view the deficit situation is better in Pakistan today because the economy is in such a bad state which is forcing Pakistan to abide by IMF directions to control deficit..

So actually as the economy improves and dependence on IMF goes down, this deficit is expected to go up..

 

[karan.1970]

Ok, if we're looking at the past then please review the following:

"Half the story: India is trying to tidy up its finances and free funds for projects to create jobs and promote sustainable economic growth.

The federal deficit is only half the story. The combined states’ and central deficit was 7.5 percent of GDP in 2005/06.

Morgan Stanley estimates the combined deficit to be 6.8 percent in 2006/07 and including off-budget items such as oil and electricity subsidies, it is closer to 8.5 percent. "

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

If 7.3% is "whopping" then 8.5 percent must be devastating!!

7.3 is the central deficit for Pakistan where as your figure of 8.5 is combined deficit for India.. Apples and oranges..??

btw..the line of arguement I was exploring was around if this fiscal deficit of Pakistan will continue to be contained as the dependence on IMF loan traches gets over or with bounce back of economy, the need to control this deficit will take a back seat...

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan's current account balance is negative $2.4 billion, while India's is negative $8.4 billion. Both need help in closing this gap.

These reported current account balance figures include a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Looking at it in % of GDP terms, Current Account Balance for India's stands at -0.68 % and Pakistan at -1.42 %

But you are right. This number needs to become postive for a sustained long term growth..

 

[Viv]

Just a few more figures to digest.

The number of Indian Companies in the Fortune 500 - 13.
The number of Pakistan Companies in the Fortune 500 - 0.


The number of Indian Companies in the Fortune 2000 - 34
The number of Pakistani Companies in the Fortune 2000 - 2.


The number of Indian Billionaires - 49.
The number of Pakistani Billionaires - 1.

 

[ramu]

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade.

How many times will you bring back the pathetic situation post partition and dire need for assistance. You will continue to harp on the past that is so far and has no semblance to the current to prove the current is no good!

You are on this forum to win every argument by word play and presenting twisted facts.

Read my post and you will see how diametrically opposite is your post and purely confirms my argument that data from independence makes no sense to assess current reality.

 

[Hutchroy]

Pakistan's current account balance is negative $2.4 billion, while India's is negative $8.4 billion. Both need help in closing this gap.

These reported current account balance figures include a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

Indian Economy is Over Seven Times the Economy of Pakistan.

As such India must have a current account balance of negative US Dollars 16.8 Billion to be in the same condition as Pakistan. With a current account balance only negative US Dollars 8.4 Billion India is doing extremely well in this respect to Pakistan. Understand?

According to OECD group of the aid donor nations, the words "aid" and "assistance" refer to flows which qualify as Official Development Assistance (ODA) or Official Aid (OA). Such OA or ODA aid includes both grants and soft loans given by OECD nations and multi-lateral institutions like the World Bank, Asian Development Bank, IMF, etc.

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade.

Haq's Musings: Foreign Aid Continues to Pour in Resurgent India

Agreed that Foreign Aid to India is almost US Dollars 100 Billion – No Argument.

With One Seventh the Population of India I am sure that Pakistan must have – I am willing to be corrected – had Foreign Aid of more than US Dollars Twenty Billion.

Remember : India has re-paid all Loans and not begged to have Loans Forgiven!

Thus it seems that India cannot be equated with Pakistan in the Economic Field.

Kapish!

Suggestion : It is not the Total Amount that counts - It is the Per Capita Amount that Counts!

Just Remebered : In 1951 Present day Paksitan had a Population which was about One Eleventh that of India. so on balance the Universal Aid to Pakistan should be less than USD 12 Billion to Equate with India from the period 1951 Onwards.

 

[lhuang]

Dude china is 2nd largest economy and japan is the third largest so please dont lie.

Not yet, unless you're talking purchasing power parity.