India no longer an open society: Salman Rushdie

[ajtr]

^ Depnds on the definition of closed mind. Don't look at Indian society from Western point of view. From Indian point of view of majority people, If open society means world's largest **** industry, then no thanks.

Homosexuality was always part of indian society its just you cover it up.Havent you seen the mentioning of kinnar etc in indian religious texts.West is the scale through which one measures the open or closed society.coz in this age western society is going through its golden age since it came out of dark ages.You talk of **** industry where as indian film industry itself makes soft **** which it calls msm cinema.

If open society means more diversity in nationality and race, having Russian, Mexican, Black, Columbian drug cartels and gangs etc. then no thanks.

how about babloo srivastav,dawood ibrahim etc of famous indian gangs and drug cartels?

BTW India is more diverse in different way. Don't compare apples and oranges.

Apples and oranges terminology cant be applied to human society.And India is not more diverse than usa.

What extremism are you talking about when you target Hindus and Muslims while consider Maoists/Naxalites freedom fighter and clap on every CRPF soldier killed. How many Muslims or any other religion's people Hindus daily kill compared to what these extremists kill ?

you cant compare war to extremism.If such is the case then i'll agree with Bharat Karnad when he says "Indo-Pak wars are religious riots with tanks".

Sorry I won't accept or agree with your points on extremism. Arundhati Roy is alive, so is M.F Hussein and he wasn't killed by Hindus in India last time I checked just because he offended Hindus where as your favorite Maoists kill anyone that is against their "freedom" fight and views.

Graheme satines and his sons are dead.Again maoist violence is not extremism but its a war.

 

[KRAIT]

I think you are getting confused with Kinnar mentioning and legalizing Homosexuality. I simply say that majority don't accept it. If laws are followed then why not Sharia law ? Just because a person is killed by a needle or electric chair rather than a noose or stone pelting, it makes it better. I already mentioned the highest prison population in US jails ? If their laws are so strong and effective and society is too advanced then why so many repeat offenders.

West is the scale through which one measures the open or closed society. Are you sure ?

I beg to differ. I am happy that we don't sell guns like in US. Nor does I like their society where drugs are easy to access relatively.

I don't want teenage pregnancy, child molestation etc. when there are other problems in my society, following them make increase the frequency and number of offenders.

If open society means too many divorces, mockery of marriage, less family attachment and respect to elders then I am fine with my "closed society".

Are there crimes in India, they are, heinous one always happen all the times, but I won't judge my society with US one.

Last time I checked the two world wars were started by west, Nazis were part of Western society, the millions of people killed was by west, slavery, discrimination in other part if the world also used by West.

There are practices that I think should be stopped in my society but I will never consider West as higher threshold for comparison. Rather make it a base line.

 

[Bang Galore]

Tell me one country with this diversity in religion and ethnicity not having such problems.

Hussein was made to leave for a reason and so does Rushdie. If India tries to avoid any clashes through not allowing people who have their art.work mocking particular religion. These people think they are ahead of the curve, they should know what will rattle the society. These people create work each causes violence and hatred. Its not only the mobs' fault but these people are equally responsible. If a known person of mine gets killed in a riot because of these people showing "art", I will blame the mob along with the artist. When you are famous enough, you have to be responsible just like you want general populace to be.

As fr Ahmadiya conference, we should first focus on decreasing the extremism rather than enabling the anti-social elements. The Blacks in America got better treatment as the people got less violent with coming generations which didn't look Blacks as slaves and second grade human unlike their former generation. Blacks were lynched in Texas. Now African American is the word you used, N word is considered derogatory etc.

Even with so many decades, their is still racism present in so called "Open" society. France is also "Open" society which allows to mock a religion and give the argument of Free Speech.

First you create an environment for more reasonable voices to get attention and avoid any hatred being spread. You need multiple pronged strategy rather than targeting particular section of society while brushing off your own responsibility.

If I am a known person in a particular section, I will avoid presenting something that can cause problem as I can see that people won't accept it and will wait for more appropriate time. Just to get cheap publicity by offending religious sentiments and spotlight, I won't become accessory in Murder if a person is killed in riots emerged from opposition of my work.

Exactly for all the points stated above, Rushdie is right in saying that India is no longer (a completely) open society.

 

[Ticker]

Homosexuality was always part of indian society its just you cover it up.Havent you seen the mentioning of kinnar etc in indian religious texts.West is the scale through which one measures the open or closed society.coz in this age western society is going through its golden age since it came out of dark ages.You talk of **** industry where as indian film industry itself makes soft **** which it calls msm cinema.

how about babloo srivastav,dawood ibrahim etc of famous indian gangs and drug cartels?

Apples and oranges terminology cant be applied to human society.And India is not more diverse than usa.

you cant compare war to extremism.If such is the case then i'll agree with Bharat Karnad when he says "Indo-Pak wars are religious riots with tanks".

Graheme satines and his sons are dead.Again maoist violence is not extremism but its a war.

Many a times your comments are very incisive - and please, do understand the difference between many a times and all the times.

You talk about Western society being at its Nader. One of the major reason for moving to such a probable stage essentially emanated from rising acrimony against intrusive religious institutions.

In South Asian environment, where religion plays an important part in daily life, it is intrusive by default and is becoming more and more intrusive, and I do not mean extremism.

So does it imply that the societal advancement or development is not taking place or the benchmarks of our societies have to be gauged through a comparison of related attributes set forth by western society(ies).

Please leave out the effects of Afghan wars and related Taliban angle as this kind of societal degradation happens over a very limited societal foot print and is never lasting.

 

[ajtr]

I think you are getting confused with Kinnar mentioning and legalizing Homosexuality. I simple say that majority don't accept it. If laws are followed then why not Sharia law ? Just because a person is killed by a needle or electric chair rather than a noose or stone pelting, it makes it better. I already mentioned the highest prison population in US jails ? If there law is so strong and society is too advanced then why so many repeat offenders.

majority is confused about its own religion that it oppose right of homosexuals and transgenders.What is AIMPLB then if not a diluted version of sharia?Society is open thats why you have people in jail there instead of in congress unlike india where offenders are law makers..

West is the scale through which one measures the open or closed society. Are you sure ?

yes .100%

I beg to differ. I am happy that we don't sell guns like in US. Nor does I like their society where drugs are easy to access relatively.

Even then you have more drug and gun related cases in india than usa.

I don't want teenage pregnancy, child molestation etc. when there are other problems in my society, following them make increase the frequency and number of offenders.

As if you dont has it already in indian society.

If open society means too many divorces, mockery of marriage, less family attachment and respect to elders then I am fine with my "closed society".

Same the case in india.only difference is usa takes cares of its senior citizens in india senior citizens are left to die in vrindavan ,banaras etc.

Are there crimes in India, they are, heinous one always happen all the times, but I won't judge my society with US one.

I would judge it.coz no teeage girls are molested in usa by a crowd and shot over camera and telecasted on prime time news channel there.

Last time I checked the two world wars were started by west, Nazis were part of Western society, the millions of people killed was by west, slavery, discrimination in other part if the world also used by West.

And how many millions indian killed before west came out of its dark ages and still killing ?

There are practices that I think should be stopped in my society but I will never consider West as higher threshold for comparison. Rather make it a base line.

West is way above india and for india to reach there it will take forever.

 

[Manas]

There should be absolute freedom when it comes to freedom of expression. That simply means state wont persecute you for what say, write or any other form of artist expression.
E,g take the contentious case MF hussain, he should never have been legally persecuted for the drawings that hurt Hindu religious sentiment as he was exercising his freedom to express himself the way he liked . But that doesn't mean somebody shouldn't have least slapped that old bastard and face legal charges for assaulting .

Its sad but true as Salman Rushdie said that pseudo secular of india use secularism as an excuse to curb freedom of expression to pander to vote bank politics.

 

[Manas]

Same the case in india.only difference is usa takes cares of its senior citizens in india senior citizens are left to die in vrindavan ,banaras etc.

Bullshit!

Indian family values compels children to look after their old parents in most cases . Number of people who go to vrindavan ,banaras in their advanced age is minuscule and oftentimes have religious cause behind their arrival to those holy places.