India must respect Vienna convention on Italy envoy's immunity says EU

[Thor]

Indian arrogance is indeed amusing, i guess time will tell whether the Marines and the Ambassador walks scot free. So far, all the analysts and experts are predicting that the Ambassador will not be prosecuted and i agree with that conclusion. Also, time will tell which side the French will support. So far it seems that the Italians have secured the consent of the EU, the French have at no point stated that they will support India in this case so your entire hypothetical scenario is pretty much garbage. It will certainly be a real bruise on the Indian arrogance if the Italian Ambassador walks free without any consequences.

This is the point I was making earlier, the sheer arrogance of Indians is truly amazing and pathetic to say the least.

The mere fact that the incident happened in International waterskiing was initially disputed and then admitted and the fact that the Italians, despite this fact respected India as a nation and surrendered its marines, who being on board foreign vessel could easily have called for support and escaped, nonetheless they were humble and surrendered themselves in order to diplomatically deal with the matter at hand. Yet, despite the lie told by India that it had happened in local waters and then accepting the blood money for its two citizens killed, they still put themselves in a stupid position and went for trial. They should have at least sat back and looked at their jurisdiction in the first place.

The marines should not have been there in the first place and it is clearly the Italians made this move as a last option after a lack of meaningful dialogue and outcome from the Indian judiciary who itself is showing its clout.

Looks as though the Italians can raise this now in the International forum and let's see where this case goes in a neutral trial, I say it will last half a day

 

[mehboobkz]

NATO is spearheaded by its founding father - the USA. After the Korea del Norte Nuclear capabilities, it wants to negotiate with it.
What can be said of India with with 1000 nuclear (Bombs) material waiting in the wings?

NATO strike against India/
My foot!

 

[Srinivas]

That is not a settled issue. Even the SC left that question open.

The Italian Ambassador went to Supreme court of India and asked it to interfere in this issue and grant payrole in return he submitted to SC.

I don't think diplomatic immunity comes here as a matter or Vienna law since it is personal submission.

Yes the question is whether the killings took place in international waters or Indian territorial ones.

 

[anonymus]

@arp2041 @kaykay

What @Thor is saying here is completely correct.

Diplomatic privileges and immunities guarantee that diplomatic agents or members of their immediate family:

May not be arrested or detained
May not have their residences entered and searched
May not be subpoenaed as witnesses
May not be prosecuted

Diplomatic Immunity - e Diplomat


This is a classic case of judicial activism in the realm of illegal.SC has been actively interfering in Executive and Legislative functions since 1990 and getting away with it which has made some judges to believe that they could get away with expansive interpretation of Treaties in International context also.

There are only two ways of removing diplomatic immunity

1.The Country of origin waives it.
2.Diplomat is declared "person non grata" in which case he is expelled.No arrest is allowed in this case.

A diplomat cannot extinguish his immunity even if he wants to.

 

[mehboobkz]

The Italian Ambassador went to Supreme court of India and asked it to interfere in this issue and grant pay roll in return he submitted to SC.

I don't think diplomatic immunity comes here as a matter or Vienna law since it is personal submission.

Yes the question is whether the killings took place in international waters or Indian territorial ones.

What do you mean by above bold highlighted wordings?

 

[notorious_eagle]

What do you mean by this, cant you refrain from writing just about anything under the sun.

I was banned month long for such a statement, and here you will go scott free. I should be saying the same about Pakistanis, oh well

Please refer to Posts 87, 74, 72 and 71. This is just from 2 pages, i didn't bother going back to read the entire thread. If you don't find these posts filled with false bloated arrogance, than you need to get your eyes checked. Whenever i make a statement, it is backed up by facts and you are more than welcome to look at these mentioned posts to reach a conclusion whether the statement i made was false or not. Also i am not at all surprised that you were banned, the fact that you chose to turn a blind eye to the posts of your fellow countrymen is proof enough that you clearly have a very biased point of view.

 

[SamantK]

Please refer to Posts 87, 74, 72 and 71. This is just from 2 pages, i didn't bother going back to read the entire thread. If you don't find these posts filled with false bloated arrogance, than you need to get your eyes checked. Whenever i make a statement, it is backed up by facts and you are more than welcome to look at these mentioned posts to reach a conclusion whether the statement i made was false or not. Also i am not at all surprised that you were banned, the fact that you chose to turn a blind eye to the posts of your fellow countrymen is proof enough that you clearly have a very biased point of view.

Some people who have gone ashtray are not worth replying and what kind of a eye you want me to turn on them. I am no moderator, however labelling it as India arrogance based on 4 posts is indeed lowering yourself.

The statement you made is faulty indeed, many Pakistanis were taunting us when this episode broke that India is gut less and what not, why didnt you turn your eye on them and would it then be justified to say that all Pakistanis have the arrogance to let Headley pay some blood money and flee and come and comment on India?

I am not surprised that you are not banned being a Think Tank, after all many times Indians have been given a subtle warning that this indeed is a Pakistani Defence forum and you cannot expect a full fair treatment.

 

[Srinivas]

1)This is the point I was making earlier,the sheer arrogance of Indians is truly amazing and pathetic to say the least.

1) That is not arrogance rather anger for breaching the trust of Indian SC, you should know the difference between them before posting your fantasies.

2)The mere fact that the incident happened in International waterskiing was initially disputed and then admitted and the fact that the Italians, despite this fact respected India as a nation and surrendered its marines, who being on board foreign vessel could easily have called for support and escaped, nonetheless they were humble and surrendered themselves in order to diplomatically deal with the matter at hand.

2) The killed citizens are Indian ones and they cannot escape from the waters in huge merchant ship , chased by Indian coast guard. India has every right to arrest and try them since the citizens are Indians.

The initial trial should be done whether the incident happened in International waters or Indian waters. then they will transferred to International court or Indian court based on the trial.

3)Yet, despite the lie told by India that it had happened in local waters and then accepting the blood money for its two citizens killed, they still put themselves in a stupid position and went for trial. They should have at least sat back and looked at their jurisdiction in the first place.

3) Who are you to tell India lied and on what basis???, you should also look in the perspective of the killed persons families. these guys are the bread earners of those families.
Do not talk about blood money it is peanuts and laughable, killing some one and paying blood money may work in countries like yours not in India.

4) The marines should not have been there in the first place and it is clearly the Italians made this move as a last option after a lack of meaningful dialogue and outcome from the Indian judiciary who itself is showing its clout.

Looks as though the Italians can raise this now in the International forum and let's see where this case goes in a neutral trial, I say it will last half a day

4) The Italian Ambassador literally went to Supreme court of India and begged for the payrole of the Marines and in return submitted himself to the SC so there goes his Diplomatic immunity and Vienna convention.

This guy came out an lied and proved himself and Italy as mischievous and no respect to the mutual agreements.
This incident is damaging to Italy itself not India and Italy will loose the trust in the international arena.

Regarding the half a day trial, again a fantasy from you.

What do you mean by above bold highlighted wordings?

Payroll for the purpose of voting.

 

[mehboobkz]

1) That is not arrogance rather anger for breaching the trust of Indian SC, you should know the difference between them before posting your fantasies.


2) The killed citizens are Indian ones and they cannot escape from the waters in huge merchant ship , chased by Indian coast guard. India has every right to arrest and try them since the citizens are Indians.

The initial trial should be done whether the incident happened in International waters or Indian waters. then they will transferred to International court or Indian court based on the trial.




3) Who are you to tell India lied and on what basis???, you should also look in the perspective of the killed persons families. these guys are the bread earners of those families.
Do not talk about blood money it is peanuts and laughable, killing some one and paying blood money may work in countries like yours not in India.






4) The Italian Ambassador literally went to Supreme court of India and begged for the pay roll of the Marines and in return submitted himself to the SC so there goes his Diplomatic immunity and Vienna convention.

This guy came out an lied and proved himself and Italy as mischievous and no respect to the mutual agreements.
This incident is damaging to Italy itself not India and Italy will loose the trust in the international arena.

Regarding the half a day trial, again a fantasy from you.

What you wanna say with above Pay roll words?

 

[CZAR]

Indian arrogance is indeed amusing, i guess time will tell whether the Marines and the Ambassador walks scot free. So far, all the analysts and experts are predicting that the Ambassador will not be prosecuted and i agree with that conclusion. Also, time will tell which side the French will support. So far it seems that the Italians have secured the consent of the EU, the French have at no point stated that they will support India in this case so your entire hypothetical scenario is pretty much garbage. It will certainly be a real bruise on the Indian arrogance if the Italian Ambassador walks free without any consequences. What the Indians here are failing to contemplate is that, there is no country in this world that will support India's position because this will setup a precedence that will endanger the immunity of there own diplomats. So far, India has not found any International backers but the Italians certainly have. Actions speak louder than words.

Indian arrogance?! Just the other day one pakistani friend had clubbed Pak with Russia and China as the three "heavies" that backed SL, in context of the UN resolution. I initially thought that it was a typo. But the thread was full of clumsy arguments by pakistani friends who attempted to justify the "heavy" tag. Since arrogance amuses you, I hope that you too were as entertained as us.

Besides, if pak with a 200+ bil economy can hope to influence international discourse on a far more sensitive issue, India being 2+ trillion eco (or ten times in size) can surely be allowed the luxury of a little audacity in hoping to get a country to keep its word with respect to two under-trials.

 

[mehboobkz]

1) That is not arrogance rather anger for breaching the trust of Indian SC, you should know the difference between them before posting your fantasies.


2) The killed citizens are Indian ones and they cannot escape from the waters in huge merchant ship , chased by Indian coast guard. India has every right to arrest and try them since the citizens are Indians.

The initial trial should be done whether the incident happened in International waters or Indian waters. then they will transferred to International court or Indian court based on the trial.




3) Who are you to tell India lied and on what basis???, you should also look in the perspective of the killed persons families. these guys are the bread earners of those families.
Do not talk about blood money it is peanuts and laughable, killing some one and paying blood money may work in countries like yours not in India.






4) The Italian Ambassador literally went to Supreme court of India and begged for the pay roll of the Marines and in return submitted himself to the SC so there goes his Diplomatic immunity and Vienna convention.

This guy came out an lied and proved himself and Italy as mischievous and no respect to the mutual agreements.
This incident is damaging to Italy itself not India and Italy will loose the trust in the international arena.

Regarding the half a day trial, again a fantasy from you.



Payroll for the purpose of voting.

What is this payroll?

Dictionary.com:

1. A list of employees receiving wages or salaries, with the amounts due to each.
2. The total sum of money to be paid out to employees at a given time.

Please clarify....

 

[Srinivas]

What you wanna say with above Pay roll words?

It is payrole not payroll,I mean letting the prisoners do their personal duties.May not be the exact word.

 

[armchairPrivate]

If I were the Italian government, I would order the ambassador to report back to Italy pronto. See if the Indian immigration officers would arrest him. Just to see how big a ball the Indian got.

 

[Speeder 2]

The EU's boycott India on bullets and rifle alone will send Indian army to the stone age overnight, unless a lethal way is found of how to throw cow dung, which I'm sure is under investigation as we speak indigenously, more than paint this time, by DRDO with its "LCA(lengthened Cowdung Arrows) Mark II"

 

[Thor]

1) That is not arrogance rather anger for breaching the trust of Indian SC, you should know the difference between them before posting your fantasies.

2) The killed citizens are Indian ones and they cannot escape from the waters in huge merchant ship , chased by Indian coast guard. India has every right to arrest and try them since the citizens are Indians.

The initial trial should be done whether the incident happened in International waters or Indian waters. then they will transferred to International court or Indian court based on the trial.

3) Who are you to tell India lied and on what basis???, you should also look in the perspective of the killed persons families. these guys are the bread earners of those families.
Do not talk about blood money it is peanuts and laughable, killing some one and paying blood money may work in countries like yours not in India.

4) The Italian Ambassador literally went to Supreme court of India and begged for the payrole of the Marines and in return submitted himself to the SC so there goes his Diplomatic immunity and Vienna convention.

This guy came out an lied and proved himself and Italy as mischievous and no respect to the mutual agreements.
This incident is damaging to Italy itself not India and Italy will loose the trust in the international arena.

Regarding the half a day trial, again a fantasy from you.

Payroll for the purpose of voting.

Ian surprised at your silly comments when quoting myself without any concept of the legal framework.

First thing, India cannot out on trial any national for an incident in International waters......cannot is the word here. international waters is for International Courtsto decide, not India, regardless of the victims being Indians or Martians. Makes odds here, it is the legally binding agreements signed to by India as well.

Secondly, you can comment on what Pakistan is like all the time, nonetheless call it whatnot will, those victims families accepted blood money for the killings of their loved ones, period. If Indiawantedto playthehighground, theyshouldhave refused and stuck to the argument they had about it being an offence under Indian law.

Realistically speaking again and again and again, something alot of you here don't seem to understand, the envoy has immunity, which means you cannot touch him...simples. Please read the convention before going off into an emotional speech about what should happen.

I think I have had enough of ying to explain this position over and over again with people here. Reminds me of Mark Twain's qoute "You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."