India - Just One More To Go fifth of six C-130J Super Hercules

[sancho]

Absolutely agree with you, the CV-22 is an ideal SOFs transport doing things nothing else on the planet can do. IAF should seriously look into the CV-22 operated by the USAF SOARs, probably wouldn't get the entire package but even a somewhat downgraded version would be an awesome and unmatched machine. The V-22 could be an ideal platform to fulfil many key areas in the Indian armed forces: as mentioned the SOFs/SOAR capability, ACC based AEW (could be used on the 40,000 class carriers and future 65,000+ carriers) for IN, aswell as utility role for IN (carrier replenishment at sea) like USN currently does with Greyhounds which V-22 is soon to replace, Would also be a great platform for troop carrier on the IN's future LPD/LHDs for IN's expeditionary force, could also be great for IA/IAF in general utility role transporting large amounts a long way to remote locations. Hopefully these plans are already on the table somewhere in MoD.

AFAIK the USN has not ordered the V22 anymore, they might look for another fixedwing aircraft to replace the Greyhounds and I wouldn't suggest the V22 for the normal transport of troops, because it's simply too expensive and not too much more capable in this role compared to helicopters. The speed advantage here will be even equalised by NG helicopters with pusher rotors like the Kamov Ka 92, or the Mi X1, which is why I hope we go for an co-development with them for one of these helicopters, rather than developing IMRH alone.
However, for special ops in the air force, or on carriers for AWACS, tanker, long range utility and long range ASW roles it would be highly useful and why I would like to see India/HAL going for a JV with Boeing, for the production of parts of the V22s in India, especially if we might fund the development of specialised versions (AWACS, ASW).

 

[sancho]

Do we plan on only acquiring just 6? We happen to be the 2nd most populous country in the world with countries that are hostile to us on both sides. I firmly believe 6 is too little, perhaps 60 should be the least. I understand China can can reproduce almost any technology they get their hands on, but what about India? Is it possible for us to reverse-engineer the C-103 and create our own version so we are able to mass produce them? I understand the US will never consider selling us that much so we shouldn't bother asking.

There is talk for 6 more and it is just meant to be an specialised (with techs and capabilities for special operations) stop gap procurement, because the Mumbai attacks showed that our special forces needs to be transported faster all over the country. In the short, or mid term we will co-develop the MRTA/MTA with the Russians, which is in the same class:

Re-engineering is only a solution for countries that has not the access to current techs, JV, or co-developments, because they can't keep up otherwise. India has not this disadvantage and should go on with co-developments, to improve our industry.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Pictures of all the IAF C130J's!
First IAF C130J(KC 3801)-Notice the EO pod

Second IAF C130J(KC 3802)

Third IAF C130J(KC 3803)

Fourth(KC 3804)

Fifth(KC 3805)

Sixth(KC 3806)

Cross posting

 

[Abingdonboy]

There is talk for 6 more and it is just meant to be an specialised (with techs and capabilities for special operations) stop gap procurement, because the Mumbai attacks showed that our special forces needs to be transported faster all over the country. In the short, or mid term we will co-develop the MRTA/MTA with the Russians, which is in the same class:

Re-engineering is only a solution for countries that has not the access to current techs, JV, or co-developments, because they can't keep up otherwise. India has not this disadvantage and should go on with co-developments, to improve our industry.

Actually I believe 26/11 had little to do with the decision to procure the C-130 for SOFs as the deal was sighned in 2008 but was on the table for some time before that. Now the decision may have been sped up post 26/11 but this requirement (SOAR) had been called for by SOFs for some time. And the fact is the planes are based at Hindon AFS whereas the NSG is based at Delhi airport and can comender any plane they need and turbofans are likely to be faster. Not to mention they would most likely use the RAW ARC IL-76 based at the same airport as they were ready to do in the Mumbai blasts earlier this year. It may so happen the C-130s are one day used by NSG but this is not why they were bought and are nptmthe intended users (PARA SF).

 

[sancho]

Actually I believe 26/11 had little to do with the decision to procure the C-130 for SOFs as the deal was sighned in 2008 but was on the table for some time before that. Now the decision may have been sped up post 26/11 but this requirement (SOAR) had been called for by SOFs for some time. And the fact is the planes are based at Hindon AFS whereas the NSG is based at Delhi airport and can comender any plane they need and turbofans are likely to be faster. Not to mention they would most likely use the RAW ARC IL-76 based at the same airport as they were ready to do in the Mumbai blasts earlier this year. It may so happen the C-130s are one day used by NSG but this is not why they were bought and are nptmthe intended users (PARA SF).

Actually I believe 26/11 had little to do with the decision to procure the C-130 for SOFs as the deal was sighned in 2008 but was on the table for some time before that. Now the decision may have been sped up post 26/11 but this requirement (SOAR) had been called for by SOFs for some time. And the fact is the planes are based at Hindon AFS whereas the NSG is based at Delhi airport and can comender any plane they need and turbofans are likely to be faster. Not to mention they would most likely use the RAW ARC IL-76 based at the same airport as they were ready to do in the Mumbai blasts earlier this year. It may so happen the C-130s are one day used by NSG but this is not why they were bought and are nptmthe intended users (PARA SF).

Not the procurement in general, but the specialisation for special ops! Wrt 26/11 and NSG, they had problems to transport 100 to 200 troops + equippment to Mumbai, because no suitable aircraft was available! The IAF IL 76 are not stationed in Delhi, but in Chandigarh and Sonegaon and the AN 32s at Hindon were too small for this purpose:

Why did NSG take 9 hrs to get there?

NEW DELHI: The terrorists strike Mumbai at 9.30pm. Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh is in Kerala. He is briefed about the attack on the city's prime locations. By the time Deshmukh grasps the enormity of the situation, 90 minutes have gone by...

He rings Union home minister Shivraj Patil at 11pm and asks for NSG commandos. "How many men?" Patil asks. "200," says the CM. Patil calls NSG chief J K Dutt and tells him to send 200 battle-ready commandos to Mumbai.

Most of the NSG men have to be roused from sleep. They don their uniforms, strap on safety gear, collect ammo and firearms. It is discovered that the only plane that can take 200 men, the IL 76, is not in Delhi but Chandigarh. Precious minutes are ticking by...

Why did NSG take 9 hrs to get there? - Times Of India


And I'm not talking about NSG alone, but special operations any comando force, also to regions outside of India.

 

[jha]

12 C-130 is not enough for a country like India for Special Ops..24 would be good..
The capability to deploy troops faster will shape the outcome of nxt escalations..And for that Cargo/Transport Planes are required in good numbers..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Actually I believe 26/11 had little to do with the decision to procure the C-130 for SOFs as the deal was sighned in 2008 but was on the table for some time before that. Now the decision may have been sped up post 26/11 but this requirement (SOAR) had been called for by SOFs for some time. And the fact is the planes are based at Hindon AFS whereas the NSG is based at Delhi airport and can comender any plane they need and turbofans are likely to be faster. Not to mention they would most likely use the RAW ARC IL-76 based at the same airport as they were ready to do in the Mumbai blasts earlier this year. It may so happen the C-130s are one day used by NSG but this is not why they were bought and are nptmthe intended users (PARA SF).

Not the procurement in general, but the specialisation for special ops! Wrt 26/11 and NSG, they had problems to transport 100 to 200 troops + equippment to Mumbai, because no suitable aircraft was available! The IAF IL 76 are not stationed in Delhi, but in Chandigarh and Sonegaon and the AN 32s at Hindon were too small for this purpose:



Why did NSG take 9 hrs to get there? - Times Of India


And I'm not talking about NSG alone, but special operations any comando force, also to regions outside of India.

With respect sir I would argue and am certain that the C-130j for IAF was always intended as a dedicated SOFs transporter, otherwise why would IAF with 100+ AN-32 choose to induct an entirely different, but similar in terms of capabilities, machine??

Also I don't understand why the NSG couldn't be flown out in batches but needed a single a/c (IL-76) to do the job?? Also it is surprising to me that the NSG didn't have dedicated, contingency plans for such scenarios (rapid mobilisation) so they knew haw many men and what platforms were available to them. Just what did they plan for? Also AFAIK the RAW ARC IL-76 was made available to NSG earlier this year during Mumbai blasts when all men of the "quick reaction task force" were mobilised, loaded onto the bird and sitting on the tarmac waiting for a "go order" that never came. Maybe this ARC's bird has only been made available to NSG post-26/11 as AFAIK RAW's ARC are based t the same airport as NSG "quick reaction task force". And anyway a turbofan is going to be much faster than turboprop (AN-32/C-130) in acting as a transport for a QRF in a country the size of India.

 

[Zabaniyah]

P.S. If they want more aircrafts for special ops, they should add a squadron of CV 22s next to the C130Js. Would increase our tactical transport capability way more, while the normal transport role should be done by MRTAs.

V-22 is currently very expensive. But if export orders go up, I am sure it'll be more feasible to buy. The Osprey is one sexy beast and practical

 

[1nd1a]

Lockheed's stealth C-130 successor revealed

Forty years ago, the US Air Force tried to replace the Lockheed Martin C-130 with a super short take-off and landing (STOL) airlifter, with the Boeing YC-14 and McDonnell YC-15 as the candidates. Then, things got weird. Budgets grew, funding shrank and eventually the requirement transformed into something much larger. Thus, the Boeing C-17A Globemaster III was borne to replace the Lockheed C-141B Starlifter and the Lockheed C-130 continues into its seventh decade of active production.

What goes around always seems to come around in this business, and so it is with the YC-14 and YC-15.

Meet the Speed Agile. If the USAF is allowed to spend big money on a super-STOL C-130 replacement after 2020, this is Lockheed's idea for what it should look like. Boeing is also working on an alternative concept. The Air Force Research Laboratory has been funding both Lockheed and Boeing to work on wind tunnel models. Last month, the AFRL released these front and rear images of a 23%-scale model of the four-engine Lockheed Speed Agile concept. The wind tunnel model includes two Williams FJ44 engines. The Secret Projects forum found the images earlier today on AFRL's web site.

I think we should wait for this one.....

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well if the US makes it available to her allies I see no issues, by this time India's defence budget is likely to be >$100 Billion.

 

[Mujraparty]

I think we should wait for this one.....

what about this one for IAF....

Puff the Magic Dragon breathes on Saigon - A time delay photo of a Spooky gunship at work on the outskirts of Saigon provides a vivid display for one of it's nicknames: Puff the Magic Dragon. The tracers raining down from the night sky represent only one of every five bullets fired from the gunships miniguns (USAF photo).

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Puff the Magic Dragon breathes on Saigon - A time delay photo of a Spooky gunship at work on the outskirts of Saigon provides a vivid display for one of it's nicknames: Puff the Magic Dragon. The tracers raining down from the night sky represent only one of every five bullets fired from the gunships miniguns (USAF photo).

Nobody wants to be in that place while this is happening...