India is NOT a democracy

[Titanium]

“The biggest PR myth of all times is that India is a democracy. In reality, it is not. There is no real democracy in India. Several States are on the verge of civil war,” Roy said at a book-reading session, with Latin American writer Eduardo Galeano in tow.

Roy was reading The God of Small Things when she suddenly stopped and said she wanted to speak on an issue, which had been bothering her for quite some time.

India, she said, was passing through a terrible time.

Challenging the views of New York Times columnist Tom Friedman praising India, a democracy of a billion population, for conducting peaceful elections year after year, she said, ‘‘He probably needs a new tour of India… Does Thomas know that in Kashmir Valley alone, some 80,000 people have been killed? In Iraq, there are 1,50,000 military personnel, whereas in Kashmir Valley there are some 7,00,000.’’


Recent Election Campaign in Gujrat

Modi managed to whip up such a communal frenzy with his words that the crowd begin to chant "kill him, kill him" in response to Modi's question on what should have been done to Sohrabuddin.

And when the people shouted "kill him", (Shabuddin) Modi said: "Well, that is it. Do I have to take Sonia Gandhi's permission to do this? Hang me if I have done anything wrong."

Is India all about Majorityism or a Democracy.??

Does democracy means, you have elections, you have an idea of majoritarianism, that easily becoming fascism… ..

If what is playing out in Gujrat is nothing but Fascism then what? You have a CM who says he killed a person coz he deserve it.........take a hike constitution and ddecomracy.

You Kill thoussands of people, just coz allegedly some of the community members burned a train.

Indian Democracy is nothing short of Tyranny of the majority

India is better served by naming it Ochlocracy , which is government by mob or a mass of people, or the intimidation of constitutional authorities. In English, the word mobocracy is sometimes used as a synonym.


Welcom to World's biggest Democracy.........nay ....Ochlocracy.

 

[Titanium]

Economic Destruction Continues....[/B]​

Evidence provided by prominent businessmen belonging to both the Muslim and Hindu communities, point to this systematic destruction. The destruction of two establishments on CG Road — Pantaloon Showroom and the Hero Honda Showroom — in a posh area in Ahmedabad, is illuminating. The Pantaloon Showroom is a partnership of Hindus and Muslims, with the Muslim partner owning only a 10 per cent share. The Copper Chimney restaurant, though owned by a Hindu Punjabi, was targeted. Those instigating the attack were obviously well-informed, for very few people knew that the owner had recently signed a deal with a Sheikh in the Gulf. Information was gathered from the Registrar of Companies, the Revenue and the Sales Tax departments. Significantly, several months prior to the carnage, the widely circulated local Gujarati daily, Sandesh, had published a list of all Muslim-owned establishments in Ahmedabad with ‘Hindu’ names. Was there some unstated purpose behind the publishing of this list? Was it used as a ready reckoner by those who destroyed these establishments later?

1.5. Similarly, shops and establishments owned by Muslims were destroyed in Rajkot, Vadodara, Surat, Bhavnagar, Junagadh, Palanpur, Nadiad, Himmatnagar, Mehsana, Visnagar and Unjha. Vehicles at the General Motors showroom in Halol (60 km from Godhra) were also not spared. Several processing houses and small factories located in the industrial areas of Narol/Vatwa and Naroda on the outskirts of Ahmedabad city, suffered heavy losses on the day of the Gujarat bandh, as the finished goods lying in the godowns were set on fire. (An FIR filed in this connection has named BJP MLA Sushri Maya Kotdani and VHP vice-president of Gujarat unit, Dr. Jaideep Patel as among those responsible).

1.6. Industries located in the GIDC estates at Godhra, Kalol near Ahmedabad, Halol in Panchmahal and in the adjoining Vadodara district bore the brunt of this destruction. Textile units in Ankleshwar and other industrial units in Bharuch district, too, suffered huge losses. According to Shri Narendra Brahmbutt, president of the Ahmedabad Hotel and Residents Association, the hotel sector alone has suffered a staggering loss of Rs. 260 crore. Suppliers to the hotel industry suffered losses to the extent of Rs. 60 crore. As many as 6,700 workers belonging to the majority community have been rendered jobless due to the burning and arson by the fanatic militia.

1.7. Details of losses suffered:

Muslims estimate losses due to the prolonged closure of shops, industries and commercial establishments in the state to be no less at Rs. 3,000 crore. (The Gujarat Chambers of Commerce and Industry puts the figure at Rs. 2,000 crore).

1.8. Hotel Industry

Approximately 1,150 hotels were burnt or looted on the National Highway from Vapi to Vadodara and on to Palanpur. The total estimated loss to property and investment in looting and damage alone, across the state, is Rs. 760 crore.

u A Rs. 600 crore business loss for the hotel industry in Gujarat.

u At least 20,000 workers in the hotel industry were rendered jobless and many are missing. Ironically, many of those who lost their jobs were non-Muslims, indicative of the long-term impact of destruction and terror on all sections of society, not just the 10 per cent strong Muslim minority that is the immediate target. Nearly 7,000-8,000 Rabari boys were rendered jobless in Gujarat because Muslim hotels were burnt and destroyed, according to the evidence of Tejabhai, a Rabari leader recorded by an expert witness.

1.9. Transport industry

The transport godowns on the National Highway have suffered damages to the tune of Rs. 12 crore. In addition, losses suffered due to the burning down of over 1,000 trucks are estimated by transport operators belonging to Ahmedabad, Surat, Vadodara Godhra and Himmatnagar, at Rs. 60 crore.

The truck operators’ insurance claims for the cumulative damage amounted to Rs. 830 crore.

u More than Rs. 10 crore lost due to the burning down of 60 Opel Astras parked outside the GM Motors unit at Halol.

u Rs. 4 crore lost due to the torching of the Honda City and Accord fleet of cars at the Landmark Honda showroom at Thaltej, Gandhinagar.

u The Gujarat State Road Transport Corporation estimated a loss of Rs. 12.50 crore and transport companies have lost business amounting to Rs. 70 crore.

1.10. Industry

u Halol:17-18 factories destroyed.

u Vatwa: All Muslim-owned factories in GIDC area destroyed.

u Mehsana: All Muslim-owned factories destroyed.

u Dahod-Godhra: Large factories destroyed.

u Naroda Fruit Market: Muslim-owned fruit shops destroyed.

u Kabadi Market, Ahmedabad: Destroyed.

u Bharuch: Muslim-owned shops and showrooms destroyed in Bharuch city.

u Ankleshwar: All Muslim-owned factories in GIDC area destroyed.

u Sabarkantha/Chhotaudaipur/Banaskantha: Muslim-owned shops, hotels and commercial establishments destroyed.

u Factories which had insurance cover have lodged claims worth Rs. 400 crore.

u On National Highway No. 8, about 90 per cent of the commercial establishments, including small shops, godowns and factories, have been completely wiped out.

1.11. Agriculture

u Standing crops in Panchmahal, Mehsana, Dahod, Sabrakantha, Banaskantha and Kheda districts were burnt by the miscreants.

u Motors installed in the fields for drawing water were stolen.

u Borewells in the fields, which cost anywhere from Rs. 50,000 to Rs 1.5 lakh, were damaged beyond repair. At least 7,000 such borewells of Muslim agriculturists from all over Gujarat were destroyed.

u Large and small agricultural landholdings ofMuslims in Gujarat where economic and social boycott still continues have been taken over by powerful interests dominated by the BJP/RSS/VHP and BD.

1.12. Miscellaneous

u More than Rs. 2 crore lost in damage to the Lucky Film Studio.

u Hundreds of crores lost due to the arson of thousands of houses and buildings. At least 75,000 homes were seriously damaged in the destruction, of which 10, 204 were burnt down completely. At least 10,000 shops were targeted, of which over 2,100 were completely ransacked.

u A Handloom Expo was on in Ahmedabad when the Godhra tragedy took place. All the Muslim artisans from Kashmir and West Bengal were attacked and their displays destroyed.

1.13. It is abundantly clear that the economic destruction took place mainly because of inaction on the part of the state government. Hence, the responsibility for rehabilitation need lie squarely with it. But the government has not even assessed the damages, nor laid down any guidelines for payment of compensation. Unfortunately, even the insurance companies, such as the New India Insurance and others, have not even considered the legitimate insurance claims of businessmen in many areas. The evidence recorded of a prosperous businessman from Gulberg society, who owned five shops and whose insurance claims were Rs. 9 lakh, but who was paid only Rs. 3 lakh, is a case in point.

1.14. While ignoring the genuine and pressing relief and rehabilitation needs of the survivors, the sponsors of the carnage and their cadre have now resorted to a crippling economic boycott against Muslims in many parts of Gujarat. In Gandhinagar, Mehsana and Sabarkantha districts, truck and auto drivers are facing a severe economic boycott thanks to the machinations of politicians like Gujarat ministers, Shri Nitin Patel and Shri Narayan Laloo Patel. In Vadodara, there have been, at least, over two dozen instances of Muslims being told by their Hindu employers not to come to work. In Por and Paliyad villages in Gandhinagar district, villagers who had returned were facing the severe impact of hunger and loss of livelihood due to the refusal by village Patels (who dominate the panchayat and who are politically associated with the BJP) to buy milk (from milch cattle) or to hire Muslim women as farm labour on the land belonging to the majority community.

Though overt violence has ended, ethnic cleansing continues in the form of the economic decimation of the minority in Gujarat.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Titanium,

I am amused!

I reckon you would like to state that there is one democracy i.e. yours!

A citizen of a country that has a history of martial law more than democracy is hardly the correct person to lecture on democracy.

Indeed, NWFP, FATA, Waziristan. Balochistan, Northern Areas are picture perfect examples of how democracy functions!

Please let us not get into this utter nonsense and instead think of things positive.

Arundhuti Roy is hardly the person to be taken seriously. She has denigrated her own family for acclaim! Hardly the right person to exult about, unless one wishes to be shoulder to shoulder in decrying own's own folks!

As far as Moslems being against Modi (not that I like him) one should have seen the NDTV show (a Congress sposored TV channel)

 

[Logic note]

Titanium

Nothing is Perfect in ths world .
now you can pin point those imperfection and celebrate ?
or see the positive side and learn .
India is a democracy and in spite of being one of the most diverse country in terms of religious demography it has maintained this continuously in its existence of 60 years .

now lets look into Pakistan where one religion exists in supreme majority ..
How many years of Democracy ?

 

[PakistaniPatriot]

Very true logic note. Every coin has 2 sides. One is good and one is bad. There is no democracy in India or Pakistan but yet both these countries are acclaimed for many good things around the world. Its actually okay for any country to have flaws. the more flaws the better chance for a country in future to avoid problems.

 

[BATMAN]

Few links below may help to understand Indian style of democracy and its practice:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/119170-post85.html
Super TADA: Undeclared emergency through the backdoor
India continues to stoke conflict with Pakistan
Stop atrocities on Muslims in India Petition
muslims-genocide-india

E34UtOoFbmU[/media] - Australian Christen missionary burnt alive with children in

 

[Titanium]

What I really think funny is sissys comparing, when pointed out. For everything you have to compare........nothing happened like 3000 massace in two days.

 

[Contrarian]

Really, a Pakistani deriding the democracy in India! What else can I expect next?!

Incidentally Titanium, how many times have your governments transferred power without a coup or a struggle?
I'l tell you one thing, India does it every 4 years. Thats democracy for you.

 

[Sam Dhanraj]

By the way Titanium, what kind of Governance System do you stand for in your country ?

Is that Governance system without any flaws if its the current system ? or you root for Democracy in your own country as well ?

Also it would be intresting to know What is Democracy in your POV ??. Could you please define it in your own words (not copying pasting) but your own opinion.

 

[intruder]

Malay Titanium is correct . Democracy means :

1). Throw away judges , constitution and elected goverments at the drop of hat.
2). You need Generals to rule the contry.
3). When you listen to Uncle sam how and who should rule the country.

 

[aryan2007]

“The biggest PR myth of all times is that India is a democracy. In reality, it is not. There is no real democracy in India.
Welcom to World's biggest Democracy.........nay ....Ochlocracy.

Few links below may help to understand Indian style of democracy and its practice:

Dear Titanium & Batman...

Can you please enlighten me as to what do you mean by Democracy?? For I have a feeling you are not aware of the fundamentals of Democracy..

Thanks..

 

[Titanium]

Democracy and the Number Game​

Bhubaneswar (AsiaNews) – Hindutva or "Hindu nationalism in India is trying to assimilate or eliminate minorities". Its supporters "want only Hindus in India and their attitude to minorities is either assimilate or be
eliminated.

In an joint study titled Globalization, Hindu Nationalism and Adivasis (tribals/aboriginals) of India, Lancy Lobo, a Jesuit priest and director of the Centre for Culture and Development of Vadodara in Gujarat (Western India), and Amit Mitra, an international development consultant based in Delhi, said that the hidden agenda of Hindu nationalists is "to capture power and inaugurate a theocratic society in India."

According to the two researchers, Hindu nationalism is by and large a resurgence of Brahmanism (a version of Hinduism that saw the Brahmin caste emerge as the highest of India's four caste levels) in which Brahmins but also other upper caste Indians reassert their social ascendancy. Under the constitution of independent India the hierarchical (vertical) stratification of Indian society was in theory made horizontal (by its equality provisions). However, upper caste Indians saw their status, wealth and power diminish as a result of the institutional changes that the constitution introduced. By appealing to Hindu nationalism and demanding the re-conversion of Dalits (formally known as pariahs or untouchables) and Adivasis who converted to Christianity or Islam, the upper castes are trying to reclaim their lost dignity and power.

In electoral politics of a democratic society where numbers count, re-hinduisation of Dalits and Adivasis and stopping conversions make sense. Together Dalits (15 per cent) and Adivasis (7 per cent) represent 22 per cent of the total population. Hindu parties need their support to govern. Conversion, on the other hand, cuts into this potential electorate and weakens them.

For Lobo and Mitra, Hindu parties exploit Hindu nationalism to divert attention from real issues that are of concern to the more marginalised segments of society like Dalits and Adivasis.

In a state like Gujarat, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came to power by playing up religious emotions and promising anti-conversion legislation (adopted in 2003), not by promoting any political programme. However, poor Indians need help to survive, jobs and an education, not anti-conversion laws.

Once in power, the BJP became paranoid about Christians and Christian missionaries even though Christians in Gujarat are a mere 0.42% of the total population. Its administration unleashed a campaign of hate and violence against them. In the 1997-1999 period, 12 churches were burnt, another 14 were vandalised and 17 physical attacks against Christians were perpetrated, not to mention all other kinds of harassment.

Hindu nationalists see the conversion of Adivasis as something physically, morally and psychologically evil, an atrocity by the converter on the would-be convert. In doing so, they legitimise any atrocity against the converter and the converted.

Dalits, who are victims of discrimination and marginalisation under caste system, convert to Christianity or Islam to find self-respect, dignity and an identity as full human beings. Adivasis, who are also outside the pale
of the caste system, herded off to remote hills after their lands and forests were seized by non-Adivasis, also seek dignity and identity in becoming Christian or Muslim.

But for Hindu nationalists, anyone trying to help these marginalised groups becomes an enemy. Anyone opening a school for Dalits or Adivasis is accused of seeking converts.

Gujarat is sadly known for the inter-ethnic violence that flared up in 2002. The killing of 58 Hindus in the Gujarati town of Godhra was followed by a violent Hindu response that left more than 2,000 Muslims dead, an
event that Lobo and Mitra consider a state-sponsored pogrom, a crime directly attributable to the BJP government then in power in the state.

 

[Contrarian]

You know what i find amusing in Pakistan is that their constitution gets 'updated' or 'revised' every year! It must be in its 60th edition now!

and this guy has the nerve to talk about democracy in India!

 

[Titanium]

You know what i find amusing in Pakistan is that their constitution gets 'updated' or 'revised' every year! It must be in its 60th edition now!

and this guy has the nerve to talk about democracy in India!

The sorry excuse of individual, that you are, you can not talk anything without comaprision. You and your Brahmin gang have opened so many threads I lost count deriding that, that you have to bring your comaprsion and masterbute here also.

 

[aryan2007]

The sorry excuse of individual, that you are, you can not talk anything without comaprision. You and your Brahmin gang have opened so many threads I lost count deriding that, that you have to bring your comaprsion and masterbute here also.

Titanium watch your language please..
The person whom you are trying to insult is a Senior Member of this forum..