India is closest ally in Asia: South Africa

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think they have exported to some Arabian country. Probably howitzers to other countries too.


That is why I wrote etc, I can't remember everything they make and export. Besides I did say guns, missiles.



They were probably blacklisted with other artillery manufacturers?

This is a defense forum but alliance and closeness to a country stretches further from just defense deals.

Thats why we have military relations that include training exchanges etc with S,A.

 

[Donatello]

When did S Africa sell weapons to Pakistan !? AFIK, S Africa is not a arms exporter

Denel has collaborated on a number of missiles with PAF, including stand off weapons, IFR probes and glide bombs. Search this forum and be surprised.
Of all the members in BRICS, except for India, the rest have exported arms to Pakistan. If Russia-Pakistan go ahead with Attack choppers, then that too would be offensive weapons. Of course, all such weapons are meant to be used exclusively against India.

 

[Judge]

Denel has collaborated on a number of missiles with PAF, including stand off weapons, IFR probes and glide bombs. Search this forum and be surprised.
Of all the members in BRICS, except for India, the rest have exported arms to Pakistan. If Russia-Pakistan go ahead with Attack choppers, then that too would be offensive weapons. Of course, all such weapons are meant to be used exclusively against India.

Trade has nothing to do with this. Nothing S.Africa has exported to Pakistan affects the military imbalance. Their most high technology sale was the ARM's to Pakistan.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Denel has collaborated on a number of missiles with PAF, including stand off weapons, IFR probes and glide bombs. Search this forum and be surprised.
Of all the members in BRICS, except for India, the rest have exported arms to Pakistan. If Russia-Pakistan go ahead with Attack choppers, then that too would be offensive weapons. Of course, all such weapons are meant to be used exclusively against India.

You do realize that Israel has a large investment in Denel and regularly conducts checks at Denel plants right ? Doing business with Israel via the backdoor hey

Anyways, the SA-India relationship is on a high note. Mittal Steel has bought off Iskor, SA's main steel plant. Mahindra and TATA have huge investments in SA which serves as their capital country for Africa. Gupta Investments have practically taken over the media industry. There are hundreds of flourishing Indian businesses in SA. Pakistan may buy from SA but India has an open door to SA's economy and they are investing hugely in SA and making tons of profits there. The State Bank of India which recently opened in SA has received enormous business from the SA government and is conducting a thriving business there.

 

[Ragnar]

"We have decided to celebrate the hundred year's of Mahatma Gandhi's return to India. The details of celebrations are yet to be finalised. We would also like Indians to suggest us ways of how to celebrate it," she said.

I suggest campaign for Congress Mukt Bharat

 

[Darmashkian]

You do realize that Israel has a large investment in Denel and regularly conducts checks at Denel plants right ? Doing business with Israel via the backdoor hey

Anyways, the SA-India relationship is on a high note. Mittal Steel has bought off Iskor, SA's main steel plant. Mahindra and TATA have huge investments in SA which serves as their capital country for Africa. Gupta Investments have practically taken over the media industry. There are hundreds of flourishing Indian businesses in SA. Pakistan may buy from SA but India has an open door to SA's economy and they are investing hugely in SA and making tons of profits there. The State Bank of India which recently opened in SA has received enormous business from the SA government and is conducting a thriving business there.

:- Your knowledge on Africa is quite good. How do you know so much about it?? Do you have any relatives there or Do you work for some Company there??

Could you Please tell me??

 

[Donatello]

You do realize that Israel has a large investment in Denel and regularly conducts checks at Denel plants right ? Doing business with Israel via the backdoor hey

Anyways, the SA-India relationship is on a high note. Mittal Steel has bought off Iskor, SA's main steel plant. Mahindra and TATA have huge investments in SA which serves as their capital country for Africa. Gupta Investments have practically taken over the media industry. There are hundreds of flourishing Indian businesses in SA. Pakistan may buy from SA but India has an open door to SA's economy and they are investing hugely in SA and making tons of profits there. The State Bank of India which recently opened in SA has received enormous business from the SA government and is conducting a thriving business there.

Economy is economy. But that doesn't stop someone from selling weapons. The weapons they helped us with are serious technology, and just like in case of Mectron MAR-1, India did raise objections, but to no avail. The details and discussions are out in this forum.

India's trade with China and America is way more than Pakistan's share. But hey, look what we buy from them and look who we buy them for?

A small nation like Pakistan can source what it wants from wherever it wants. It is a testament to our relationship in the world. You know, Failed states don't get to do that. I'm not even gonna talk about the Project 706 and where we got everything from.

 

[jaunty]

You know, Failed states don't get to do that.

Insecurity much? No one is talking about failed states here.

Besides in the news article the SA minister talks about civilian ties. Not every cooperation comes down to weapons, the way you like to believe. So I don't see any reason why you should be getting your panties in a twist.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Is that why they sold Pakistan weapons to strike India?

--
USA is alley of pak in WOT..
still.. C130j,, chinok,, Apache.. F16IN(most top end .. model .. offered ) .. CIVIL nuclear deal . with NSG clerance..
need more... ?
still they are alley of pak..
still....

 

[Judge]

Economy is economy. But that doesn't stop someone from selling weapons. The weapons they helped us with are serious technology, and just like in case of Mectron MAR-1, India did raise objections, but to no avail. The details and discussions are out in this forum.

India's trade with China and America is way more than Pakistan's share. But hey, look what we buy from them and look who we buy them for?

A small nation like Pakistan can source what it wants from wherever it wants. It is a testament to our relationship in the world. You know, Failed states don't get to do that. I'm not even gonna talk about the Project 706 and where we got everything from.

1. India has access to far more weaponry and technology than Pakistan - from literally all the nations in the world bar China
2. India however has to pay for those weapons and technology while Pakistan gets it funded by US or KSA.

The third point however is the crux:

3. Pakistan pays for all that equipment it sources cheaply/freely in multiple different means. Means that are unacceptable to India.

Pakistan pays by doing what US/KSA asks Pakistan to do even if those actions run contrary to Pakistan's own national interests - this ranges from subservience of individuals to interference in domestic politics, to international agreements being cancelled(like IP pipeline)

While you are right Sir, in that these actions prove that Pakistan is not a Failed State as Failed States do not get to do this, but this also proves that Pakistan is a Client State.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

:- Your knowledge on Africa is quite good. How do you know so much about it?? Do you have any relatives there or Do you work for some Company there??

Could you Please tell me??

I work for R&AW at its Africa branch situated in Harare. Just kidding. I work for the Indian Mission in Africa. I was based in South Africa for awhile, thereafter Botswana and Lesotho and now Zimbabwe

Economy is economy. But that doesn't stop someone from selling weapons. The weapons they helped us with are serious technology, and just like in case of Mectron MAR-1, India did raise objections, but to no avail. The details and discussions are out in this forum.

India's trade with China and America is way more than Pakistan's share. But hey, look what we buy from them and look who we buy them for?

A small nation like Pakistan can source what it wants from wherever it wants. It is a testament to our relationship in the world. You know, Failed states don't get to do that. I'm not even gonna talk about the Project 706 and where we got everything from.

You see, the point you missed is that South Africa's armaments industry since the days of apartheid and even currently is more of a middle man industry. Many countries including Malaysia and Israel (and current negotiations are underway with India and China) have a huge hand in Denel. If you had to question whether Denel is completely South African, the answer is a resounding no. Pakistan obtaining arms from Denel doesn't signify a swing in favor towards Pakistan by South Africa on the economic or military partnership level. All that it signifies is that the investors chased after Pakistan's money and the profits were lucrative.

Whether you bought these weapons to use against India or the USA doesn't matter to the Denel investors. All that they cared about was whether you would be paying with greenbacks or Euros. When you have money, you can buy anything. The litmus test of relationships remains the preferential trade opportunities which are offered by one nation to another. On that note, not only South Africa, but also Zimbabwe, Lesotho, Namibia, Malawi, Swaziland, Mozambique and Angola (all of the SADAC nations) have embraced India without reservation.

 

[Speeder 2]

India is closest ally in Asia: South Africa - The Times of India


View attachment 145829

NEW DELHI: Describing India as its "closest ally" in Asia, South Africa on Tuesday sought its help in gaining expertise in science and engineering besides pitching for better cooperation in areas like culture and education.

"We know how good India is in the field of engineering and science. We lack the necessary skills in these fields and would like India to assist us in these sectors," South Africa's minister of human settlements Lindiwe Nonceba Sisulu said.

Sisulu is on her first visit to India to mark the celebration of 20 years of freedom in South Africa.

"The purpose of this visit is a gesture from the South African government to thank its Indian counterpart for all the help and support it has extended in our struggle for liberation," Sisulu said.

The minister said bilateral relations between India and South Africa are a priority for the South African government with the two nations sharing a lot of commonalities.

"India is our closest ally in the Asian continent. We have commonality in our approach and we intend to keep it like that," she said.

Talking about celebrating the centenary of Mahatma Gandhi's return to India from South Africa next year, Sisulu said the government has decided to celebrate the occasion but details of it were not finalised yet.

"We have decided to celebrate the hundred year's of Mahatma Gandhi's return to India. The details of celebrations are yet to be finalised. We would also like Indians to suggest us ways of how to celebrate it," she said.

While talking about the cultural cooperation between the two countries, South African high commissioner F K Morule said much needs to be done on that front.

"Much has to be done to strengthen and promote cultural cooperation between India and South Africa. We need to do more on this," he said.

It's not surprising at all!

India and Sub-Sahara countries are natural and genetical allies.

India and its Sub-Saharan cousins share countless similarities, ranging from Hunger Index, Human Development Index, GDP per cap, to Brith Rate aka "demographic dividends", and Toilet Index. They even copy each other on national flags:

National flag of Côte d'Ivoire:

National flag of India:

National flag of Niger:

---- from Wiki.

They're like a marrige made in heaven. You can't make these up!

 

[Donatello]

I work for R&AW at its Africa branch situated in Harare. Just kidding. I work for the Indian Mission in Africa. I was based in South Africa for awhile, thereafter Botswana and Lesotho and now Zimbabwe



You see, the point you missed is that South Africa's armaments industry since the days of apartheid and even currently is more of a middle man industry. Many countries including Malaysia and Israel (and current negotiations are underway with India and China) have a huge hand in Denel. If you had to question whether Denel is completely South African, the answer is a resounding no. Pakistan obtaining arms from Denel doesn't signify a swing in favor towards Pakistan by South Africa on the economic or military partnership level. All that it signifies is that the investors chased after Pakistan's money and the profits were lucrative.

Whether you bought these weapons to use against India or the USA doesn't matter to the Denel investors. All that they cared about was whether you would be paying with greenbacks or Euros. When you have money, you can buy anything. The litmus test of relationships remains the preferential trade opportunities which are offered by one nation to another. On that note, not only South Africa, but also Zimbabwe, Lesotho, Namibia, Malawi, Swaziland, Mozambique and Angola (all of the SADAC nations) have embraced India without reservation.

So are you saying that South Africa would deny any trade and business opportunities? Pakistanis are one of the largest investors in South Africa, after Dubai of course, because South Africa has lax tax controls and is also an offshore haven. One of the biggest Forex/Gold trading companies in Africa, (ACM GOLD) is Pakistani owned and operated. But my point was that you can have trade with anyone. If i was a businessman, i would love to do trade with India, via Dubai/South Africa (like many do already). Business is business. But weapons purchases are different. Sometimes countries can directly restrict what their private firms sell according to their business partners. Like USA, Israel, Russia etc.

 

[Arya Desa]

Why are pakisthani so jealous?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why are Pakistani so jealous?

learn to spell first... and keep the first letter Capital..