India, Iran discuss underwater gas line bypassing Pak

[Bill Longley]

Undersea pipeline is the safest solution between land/sea based pipeline.

Pakistani forces can easily find out undersea pipeline but will not harm it. As it will have international implications and the most importantly it will be like attacking Iran. And Iran will not appreciate it, they are also dependednt on Iran.

And china will also not like it as it will spoil Chinese interest and game plan.

BTW Iran ke AUkaat Kya hay?

If pipe line is passing through international waters Pakistan has no problem
but if it passes through our waters then both india and iran should seek permission if not then we have right to disrupt it

 

[Chanakyaa]

What if there goes a secret deal between iran and india that if pakistan harms the underwater line... It will cut off the land based supply to pakistan?

This could be a diplomatic solution... May be something like... not official yet certain to happen as here iran will also face huge loss along with india... And to avoid more loss as iaf may then attck the land based IranPakistan pipeline using Pak FAs... Iran may give this situational agreement...


I know its a fanboy wish.. But think over it..

 

[Justin Joseph]

Uptill now India was beating the drum of high price and saying pricing formula is the biggest reason its backing off But suddenly you are willing to spend higher price to bring it underwater

India always has only one concern security, security, security, security, security.

Higher prices were never a concern.

we are providing electricity to Brother Bangladesh even when India is facing power deficit. When we can give electricity for brotherhood at the cost of our industries and jobs. Money is not a concern.

 

[deepak75]

Uptill now India was beating the drum of high price and saying pricing formula is the biggest reason its backing off But suddenly you are willing to spend higher price to bring it underwater

While the current offered / negotiated gas pricing is stated by GoI to be anyway unacceptable, the risk of future dis-continuity surpasses any cost benefit that the project may seem to provide in its present overland form. Indian aspersions with regard to both matters have been clearly and cosistently highlighted on all fora of the IPI pipeline discussions.

Instead of exposing the economy to any poliitical or "non-state actor - helplessness" risk, it is better that additional cost of the alternatives (undersea or LNG) is already accounted for in the "continuity benefit" that India stands to gain and then the decision be made. In state business, every cost can be amortized with the right planning and cost tradeoff identification.

If it is going to be expensive to get the pipeline under water or to set up LNG value chain then so be it. In that case, these are costs that India has to live with and hence accordingly create other competencies to be advantageous domestically and internationally.

It is a different matter to be born with an impediment, but why pay top dollar to purchase that lifelong impediment? Better to pay relatively more for a solution that in some way does away with the original impediment.

And who knows, with a LNG de-gassing setup at Kandala, we could in fact pipe back some gas to cater to the needs of even places in Pakistan, may be Karachi.... It could be a safer and a more reliable stand by arrangement for Pakistan in case there is trouble with the Pipeline via Balochistan.

Whay say you Madame?

 

[deepak75]

BTW Iran ke AUkaat Kya hay?

If pipe line is passing through international waters Pakistan has no problem
but if it passes through our waters then both india and iran should seek permission if not then we have right to disrupt it

There is a school of thought which considers that it will be safer to run the pipeline across the strait on to Oman and then shoot it over to India. Will give options of avoiding the underwater geo terrain and the tectonic plate disturbances. It will also allow the pressure to be maintained better.

So may be if this goes thru then Iran will be saved from telling its Aukaat....

 

[Jinnah]

Do u think it as easy as eating a jalebi..?!?!

The average depth of the Arabian sea is about 2000 metres and so how do u propose to destroy a pipeline on the sea floor..?

The maximum depth a submarine can go without getting crushed is about 300 metres (that too only ur agostas). Go figure.

who told you that we need a submarine to destroy a little pipline, we can sen a few of our sea divers to put a little explosive and triggering, although it would be a suiside attack due to the depth... I will love to do a suicide attack like this

 

[Hutchroy]

This will cost india lots of money. go for it.

It may cost 50% More but with a Pipe Line Life of over 50 Years the savings of at least UD$200 Million Annually will more than make up the Extra Cost.

Not to mention that it will be a soft target for sabotage

Yes indeed. Pakistan Navy Submarines will dive down to 4,000 Metres Depths in which case Pakistan will not be able to attribute such a sabotage to Non-State Actors.

Think of the Universal Rage when Pakistan - of course by its Non-State Actors - Blows up such a Pipe Line causing damage to the Non-Pakistan Environments!

Well first of all its times of India - so jokes are expected

Secondly i would be more than happy to see Indians going for this pipeline as it will only benefit Pakistan if such project takes place. For example Iran in her Iran-Pakistan agreement has clearly mentioned that the gas she is offering to Pakistan is at the price of 78% of Crude oil and if Iran signs another gas deal with any other country at cheaper rate then the same price will be offered to Pakistan. So if in case India manages to secure this deal at a much cheaper price, Iran will be bound to offer the same price to Pakistan.

Thirdly the project is going to be very expensive as the costs of this pipeline will only be beared by the cost respective countries.

Four, the pipeline underneath the sea route requires a lot of care and if even a small problem takes place, they will have to use their naval ships to repair it and in order to reduce the sea route India will have to use Pakistani sea route thus paying transit fee in that case also. Otherwise they will have to lay a very long pipeline and that too with bending at different places just to bypass Pakistan.

Overall i would say if they want to bypass Pakistan, its a suicide for India and win-win for Pakistan. Any sane analysts will not recommend India to ever think of bypassing Pakistan to bring Gas to India that will already be very expensive in the first place.

As stated above the cost will be possibly 50% Higher but there is a Huge saving in Transit Costs which at US$ 200 Million Annually is quite a sum and will eventually be raised by Pakistan to Twice, Thrice or even more times as per Pakistan's wish.

Please Google for the Blue Stream Pipe Line which is in Depths of over 2,000 Metres.

Finally the Oman - India Route is not only away from Pakistan's Territorial Waters but also out of Pakistan's EEZ.

You being an Energy Trader should not make the statements as you have made above!

 

[Aslan]

I dont understand one thing, that if the pipeline will pass through Pakistan that will flourish better relations. It will also give both the countries more a reason to work with each other. Why does so many people here think that we one day are just going to blow that pipeline up.

 

[deepak75]

I dont understand one thing, that if the pipeline will pass through Pakistan that will flourish better relations. It will also give both the countries more a reason to work with each other. Why does so many people here think that we one day are just going to blow that pipeline up.

Is that a trick question?

 

[blueoval79]

I dont understand one thing, that if the pipeline will pass through Pakistan that will flourish better relations. It will also give both the countries more a reason to work with each other. Why does so many people here think that we one day are just going to blow that pipeline up.

Well ask your friend Mr Jinnah here...who just wants to do a suicide attack and blow the pipeline under water....and guess how many people would just love to blow the pipeline when on land....

 

[Bill Longley]

There is a school of thought which considers that it will be safer to run the pipeline across the strait on to Oman and then shoot it over to India. Will give options of avoiding the underwater geo terrain and the tectonic plate disturbances. It will also allow the pressure to be maintained better.

So may be if this goes thru then Iran will be saved from telling its Aukaat....

what is aukaat of iran if its not leader of shia's occuping strategic Shia belt?
well nothing

BTW do you have batter relations with Iran or Israel?
what will be Israeli and US reaction?

I have worked on Iranian Military and Iranian atomic program. you can read a bit of my work on

Israeli Strategic Culture and Iran's Nuclear Threat - OhmyNews International

Iranian Strategic Culture and Nuclear Ambitions, Part 1 - OhmyNews International

 

[toxic_pus]

Even if the pipeline passes through Pakistan's EEZ, Pakistan won't be able to charge any transit fee.

As per Article 58, Para 1 of UNCLOS:

In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

Aritcle 87 refers to 'Freedom of High Seas'.

 

[Jinnah]

Do u think it as easy as eating a jalebi..?!?!

The average depth of the Arabian sea is about 2000 metres and so how do u propose to destroy a pipeline on the sea floor..?

The maximum depth a submarine can go without getting crushed is about 300 metres (that too only ur agostas). Go figure.



If u didnt care...we wuld not be having his thread and discussion.

Well ask your friend Mr Jinnah here...who just wants to do a suicide attack and blow the pipeline under water....and guess how many people would just love to blow the pipeline when on land....

I was just answering this question "so how do u propose to destroy a pipeline on the sea floor..?" basically just purposing a solution to my friend "Karthic"

 

[footmarks]

who told you that we need a submarine to destroy a little pipline, we can sen a few of our sea divers to put a little explosive and triggering, although it would be a suiside attack due to the depth... I will love to do a suicide attack like this

Wow ummwa..wat a strategy. now you will be diving down to a depth of 2000 m! sure that will be a suicide mission, with no collateral damage of course. Go ahead please.

All people make a difference in this world, some by leaving.

 

[Bill Longley]

Wow ummwa..wat a strategy. now you will be diving down to a depth of 2000 m! sure that will be a suicide mission, with no collateral damage of course. Go ahead please.

All people make a difference in this world, some by leaving.

first construct it then we will see what should be done

until then