India, Iran discuss underwater gas line bypassing Pak

[BATMAN]

How would a sane Pakistani govt not allow this to happen? Petition the UN? Declare war? Hmm?

Shoot the construction workers as did Israel set the precedent , that could be one way!

 

[BATMAN]

@ Gubbi, I know what went wrong and please read your self point 1 of your cartoon, does it says GAS?
And what exactly went wrong is a different debate.
My point is clearly such senario was not anticipated in design engineering, i'm only saying that there is always unseen risk in engineering designs.
Accident can happen even to space ships.... due to simple reasons and safety issues can be overlooked while operation and construction.
In every work risks exist and in complex projects risk factor increase mani fold and in pilot projects risk factor is even more.
But again problems can be fixed but .... look now.....under the deep sea it is almost impossible just to fix a simple leak and we are talking here about an Europen company working under US safety laws.
imagine same thing handeled by no EU or non US company / people?

Now can you estimate the the level of risk in subject project?

I was infact discussing the difficulties in containing the oil leak.... which failed mainly because icy methane hydrates formed when natural gas got mixed up with the freezing water at those high pressures. This clogged the pipes and lifted a 125 tonne coffer dam (lowered over the leak) right off the sea bed. Something not anticipated.

Now this right wrong fellow came up with false answers......
He should head the design team...

 

[cricketrulez]

Shoot the construction workers as did Israel set the precedent , that could be one way!

Batman, Are you going to answer post #80, or did that fly over your head?

Also, no one seems to have responded to this regarding transit fees in EEZ

Even if the pipeline passes through Pakistan's EEZ, Pakistan won't be able to charge any transit fee.

As per Article 58, Para 1 of UNCLOS:

In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

Aritcle 87 refers to 'Freedom of High Seas'.



C'mon ZAKI get with the program . there goes your wet dream of transit fees from under sea pipe line

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

Now this right wrong fellow came up with false answers...... he is giving me psi instead of atmospheric pressure!
He should head the design team...

The pound per square inch or, more accurately, pound-force per square inch (symbol: psi or lbf/in2 or lbf/in2 or lbf/sq in or lbf/sq in) is a unit of pressure or of stress based on avoirdupois units. It is the pressure resulting from a force of one pound-force applied to an area of one square inch:


The bar is an older unit for a pressure equal to the standard atmosphere at sea level, which is now given as 1.013 bars in fact.
PSI is a pressure unit in units of pounds per square inch.
Atmospheric pressure is usally given as 14.7 pounds per sq inch or psi.
So you could say 1 bar = 14.7 psi approximately.

Beside I also gave the equivalent bar.

 

[BATMAN]

Now Shooting of our hips...are we ??..ehh

First of all in Gulf of Mexico-

Natural gas present under the crude oil deposit is under considerable pressure. That is why it is pushing the oil out. No oil will be transported in this gas pipeline.

lets say pressure in 36 inch gas pipeline in 1500 Psi(approx 103 bar
), pressure at 3km depth will be around 300 bar. So instead of gas coming out of the line , water will be entering the pipeline...so where is the damage to the marine environment.

For background reading
New Page 1

http://www-static.shell.com/static/irl/downloads/about_shell/safety_brochure.pdf

At pressure of more than 300 bar which equipment will make the repair? once accident happend? and you will be pumping gas from how many miles 2000km+ and if i assume pump is designed considering the pipe length and now if pipe breaks in the middle! or before middle.... what will happen?
The pressure will double because head is halved! or even close to zero!
Gas will fire up in the sea like volcano.. depending on the design pressure of pump.....
Again the point is risk will be there and who will guarantee the consiquences of unexpected.
Honestly... from non serious india i only expect a statement blaming ISI or Ajmal Qasab swam through and damaged the pipe line at worst possible location!!!!

 

[deckingraj]

EEZs are not territorial waters. As someone mentioned earlier, EEZs are international waters. Pakistan has exclusive rights for oil & natural gas exploration or for fishing in these waters, but not territorial claims. Pakistan can protest, but the case will not carry any weight in international courts.

That brings me to an interesting question...What are the possibilities and thereafter repurcussions if Pakistan chose to blow off this pipeline during war time...I mean how secure is this underwater pipeline during war???

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

At pressure of more than 300 bar which equipment will make the repair? once accident happend? and you will be pumping gas from how many miles 2000km+ and if i assume pump is designed considering the pipe length and now if pipe breaks in the middle! or before middle.... what will happen?
The pressure will double because head is halved! or even close to zero!
Gas will fire up in the sea like volcano.. depending on the design pressure of pump.....
Again the point is risk will be there and who will guarantee the consiquences of unexpected.
Honestly... from non serious india i only expect a statement blaming ISI or Ajmal Qasab swam through and damaged the pipe line at worst possible location!!!!

Simulation models have been under development in order to learn more about what occurs when gas leaks out under water.

Nobody is certain what would happen if a subsea gas pipeline ruptured completely. One challenge would be how to handle the actual break on the seabed.

Another question is the way the plume of gas would behave as it streams up the water column, and data are also needed on how a gas cloud would form and spread at the sea surface.

Facts also have to be obtained about how close vessels and rescue solutions can safely get to the gas cloud – when does it become ignitable and explosive?

Nevertheless, considerable uncertainty continues to prevail over the consequences of major subsea gas leaks.

But still there are number of pipelines already in existence and one of the longest one The Langeled pipeline came in to service in 2007.

Self-propelled inspection vehicle

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6820653-0-large.jpg

http://trenchless-australasia.com/news/pipeline_inspection_technique/001722/

http://www.google.co.in/imgres?imgu...=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&ei=OZcOTL2PG9G5rAeu8YWfCQ

 

[KS]

That brings me to an interesting question...What are the possibilities and thereafter repurcussions if Pakistan chose to blow off this pipeline during war time...I mean how secure is this underwater pipeline during war???

At an average depth of abt 2000 metres metres this pipeline will be very very difficult if not downright impossible to disrupt in case of war.

 

[deckingraj]

At an average depth of abt 2000 metres metres this pipeline will be very very difficult if not downright impossible to disrupt in case of war.

In other words there is a remote chance that it could...right??? I was wondering how international bodies will react to any sabotage which will have the magnitude to pollute Env. at such a devastating level....

 

[BATMAN]

^^OK now use less discussion has started......
I think to avoid such fabricated blames at end it is even moer compelling reason for Pakistan to not allow any such project.

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

^^OK now use less discussion has started......
I think to avoid such fabricated blames at end it is even moer compelling reason for Pakistan to not allow any such project.

I might have missed it perhaps, but when did India seek Pakistan's permission to build a underwater pipeline??

 

[cricketrulez]

^^OK now use less discussion has started......
I think to avoid such fabricated blames at end it is even moer compelling reason for Pakistan to not allow any such project.

Allow? What you mean Allow? What makes you think Pak's approval is needed? Can you quote me some sources?

 

[forcetrip]

In other words there is a remote chance that it could...right??? I was wondering how international bodies will react to any sabotage which will have the magnitude to pollute Env. at such a devastating level....

Pipes can be shut off at one end. You are confusing them with a hole in the sea that has no off switch.

 

[deckingraj]

Pipes can be shut off at one end. You are confusing them with a hole in the sea that has no off switch.

Thanks for correcting me...Actually i was trying to question how secure an underwater pipeline is considering it is going to be planted close to Pakistan seas...

 

[r3alist]

i think the technology is a big ask for india

also where theres a will theres a way, am sure its not so hard to think of a way to destroy the under sea pipeline, i mean if it can be built then it can be destroyed, perhaps using the same method.