INDIA- HELICOPTER Competitions::News and Discussions

[jha]

However looks wise chinook scores over others..

 

[sancho]

I feel the choice will be made keeping in mind india's plans to have a dedicated expeditionary force.

MI-26---44,000 lb
CH-53K--35,000 lb
CH-47--30,000 lb

Small correction!

CH-47F Chinook:

Useful Load: 24,000 lbs. (10, 886 kg)

http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/docs/CH-47F_overview.pdf


MH47G
Special Operations Chinook:

Useful Load: 25,000 lbs. (11,340 kg)

http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/docs/MH-47G_overview.pdf

 

[Dash]

I have a question.

can it be said that this helicopter has something to do with Indian navy IAC2.
I mean if India selects any one of these, only CH53K has ever operated from an AC.

Which one will we use from IAC1 and IAC2. ??

 

[sancho]

I have a question.

can it be said that this helicopter has something to do with Indian navy IAC2.
I mean if India selects any one of these, only CH53K has ever operated from an AC.

Which one will we use from IAC1 and IAC2. ??

Hi Dash, they are meant as replacements for IAF helicopters, so the navy has nothing to do with it.
The K is the new version, that is in development only, but the CH 53E is on offer for us now and some of its varients are carrier capable, but so were older versions of the CH 47.
This competition should be about heavy lift and in this regard the CH53 and Mi 26 are the best, but I don't think we will by a helicopter that is co-developed by China, which leaves CH 53.

 

[CONNAN]

 

[CONNAN]

The highlighted helicopters currently compete for India's 22 attack helicopter competition. The AH-64 is already in India and has begun trials. The Mi-28 will follow

 

[jha]

Ka-52 seems to be better than Mi-28...why is this not in competition...?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Originally Posted by jha:
"Ka-52 seems to be better than Mi-28...why is this not in competition...? "

@ jha
The reason (probably) seems to be the service ceiling: 6400 m (AH-64) v/s 5750 m (Ka-52). This factor becomes extremely important for deployment in the Himalayan areas. One of the reasons why the Cheetah (lama) has been a workhorse in Siachen etc. Any helicopter in consideration has to have outstanding 'hot/high' characteristics- Rajasthan/Himalayas. India is blessed with so many different kinds of terrain that her weaponry has to be suitable for.
Most European choppers did not have to factor this in. The Cheetah (lama) was designed to operate for Alpine rescues, hence its designed capability.

 

[jha]

^^^ Yes, Service ceiling must be the reason.
However look at its monstrous 1160 km. range compared to less than 500 of the two helicopters in competition.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

^^^Your point is valid. However the helicopter bases are not going to be very far removed from the areas of operation. A helibase/helipad occupies far less area than an airfield for fixed-wing operations. So the "deep-penetration" requirement gets minimised. On the the other hand "service ceiling" assumes greater importance because these craft have to fly over high peaks and at the same time as high/far above A/A weapons such as MANPADs etc.
Just my two bits.
And yes, thanks for starting this thread, it has started some nice discussions.

 

[Dash]

Hi Dash, they are meant as replacements for IAF helicopters, so the navy has nothing to do with it.
The K is the new version, that is in development only, but the CH 53E is on offer for us now and some of its varients are carrier capable, but so were older versions of the CH 47.
This competition should be about heavy lift and in this regard the CH53 and Mi 26 are the best, but I don't think we will by a helicopter that is co-developed by China, which leaves CH 53.

I was just wondering that we eventually gonna be needing one and thought we could club it togather. Dont you think so?
looks like when we want to operate a heli from these IACs, we will open another competittion.

 

[sancho]

I was just wondering that we eventually gonna be needing one and thought we could club it togather. Dont you think so?
looks like when we want to operate a heli from these IACs, we will open another competittion.

Actually I don't think so, because these are heavy lift helicopters and carriers normally use medium lift helicopters like Sikorsky Sea Hawks, or AW Merlins for example. Such heavy helicopters are normally in use only with LPDs, or LHDs, so they could be useful for our INS Jalashwa, but less useful for our carriers.

But as I said before, personally I would just try to lease, or buy used heavy lift helicopters as a stop gap and go for new developed heavy lift helicopters later. The CH 53 K is meant to be available in 2015 and now it seems that Boeing and Eurocopter teams up for a new and bigger version of the Chinnok:

Boeing and Eurocopter To Build a Bigger Chinook? : AINonline


So a later competition between the new versions of Ch 47, Ch 53 and maybe even Mi 26, should make more sense than now taking the older once, or?

 

[Dash]

Actually I don't think so, because these are heavy lift helicopters and carriers normally use medium lift helicopters like Sikorsky Sea Hawks, or AW Merlins for example. Such heavy helicopters are normally in use only with LPDs, or LHDs, so they could be useful for our INS Jalashwa, but less useful for our carriers.

But as I said before, personally I would just try to lease, or buy used heavy lift helicopters as a stop gap and go for new developed heavy lift helicopters later. The CH 53 K is meant to be available in 2015 and now it seems that Boeing and Eurocopter teams up for a new and bigger version of the Chinnok:

Boeing and Eurocopter To Build a Bigger Chinook? : AINonline


So a later competition between the new versions of Ch 47, Ch 53 and maybe even Mi 26, should make more sense than now taking the older once, or?

I know what you are saying. That would make sense.
But another competion later is something I was not voting for.
I thought if we are to select a heavy lift chopper then I will just go for the CH superstallion and then anyways i will need a marine variant so i can have a comonality of logistics and interoperability btn arms.

I never wanted Chinook though coz according to chinook website its a medium lift (almost heavy lift though). and its expensive too.

On top of that Mi-26 will be only for heavy lift.
but iam not sure if the CH53 superstallion will be able to carry nuclear mobile command posts for nuclear, coz in war they will be used for that too.
So I guess this is where it makes a sence for seperate competitions.

But selecting one chopper like Ch53 would have made our job easier.
The road you have suggested has is valid but I was thinking about this.

This would also have been a cost effective way.

 

[soaringphnx]

IAF begins Apache trials​

The Indian Air Force (IAF) began trials for the AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter last week. IAF sources confirmed that the aircraft, which is competing with the Russian Mi-28 for the IAF’s tender for 22 attack helicopters, has already completed trials in Jaisalmer and is currently undergoing high altitude, flight and maneuverability demonstrations at Leh.

The trials are expected to continue till the end of next week, after which the Mi-28 is expected to be given a similar once-over. The maintenance and weapons trials of the former will be conducted in the United States in the coming weeks.

Dean Millsap of Boeing Rotorcraft Systems, told visiting Indian media in Philadelphia in May that the company had crash-tested the aircraft to a drop-speed of 40 feet per second. The company is pitching its ballistically-tolerant structure, which can withstand an impact up to 23 millimeters, to emphasize the survivablility of the aircraft. The aircraft also has self sealing, Kevlar armor-protected fuel cells under the pilot’s seat, as well as a system to deploy nitrogen gas to starve any outbreak of fire of oxygen, called nitrogen-inerting crash resistant fuel cells. Both, pilot as well as gunner, have the benefit of the night vision generated by FLIR (Forward Looking Infra Red) sensor. But Boeing expects the Longbow radar on the Apache to end the argument. The radar dome, which has a millimeter wave radar, is located on top of the main rotor allowing optimum detection capability. The aircraft can also digitally share information on targets with other aircraft and systems.

Interestingly, Boeing has developed a capability in the Apache to control Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV). While so far this ability is restricted to control over a single UAV, the company is building systems to allow airborne control over multiple UAVs. So far this is not a capability that has been offered to or requested by the IAF.

The first of the Apache Block III are expected to be delivered in October next year and deployed with the first US Army units by June 2012.

The trials for the IAF’s requirement for 15 heavy lift helicopters are also expected to begin after the Apache, on July 27, with the Chinook being put through its paces at Chandigarh, where it has already arrived, and Leh. Both the Apache and the Chinook were brought to India by C-17 aircraft, possibly to quietly underline the capabilities of the strategic lifter, ten of which are also being considered for purchase by the IAF, after it underwent trials last month.

 

[Dash]

Excellent news, Apache will surely sreve us well.
the MMW radar is something that can truly outsmart some tanks at all weather.