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India heavily Involved in Afghanistan

@Thomas
yea, just like when Pakistan ISI gave the Taliban arms and ammunition. Ohh yea, and money and training..........all in the name if Geo political influence. I would say India is way less involved in Afghanistan then Pakistan. And has less blood on their hands.


US created Taliban and abandoned Pakistan: Clinton, By Anwar Iqbal
Saturday, 25 Apr, 2009 | 03:09 AM PST |
DAWN.COM | World |

WASHINGTON: Two days of continuous congressional hearings on the Obama administration’s foreign policy brought a rare concession from US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who acknowledged that the United States too had a share in creating the problem that plagues Pakistan today.

In an appearance before a subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee on Thursday, Mrs Clinton explained how the militancy in Pakistan was linked to the US-backed proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
‘We can point fingers at the Pakistanis. I did some yesterday frankly. And it’s merited because we are wondering why they just don’t go out there and deal with these people,’ said Mrs Clinton while referring to an earlier hearing in which she said that Pakistan posed a ‘mortal threat’ to the world.

‘But the problems we face now to some extent we have to take responsibility for, having contributed to it. We also have a history of kind of moving in and out of Pakistan,’ she said.

‘Let’s remember here… the people we are fighting today we funded them twenty years ago… and we did it because we were locked in a struggle with the Soviet Union.’


this is the statement of hilary clinton and will answer many of your questions related to blood on who s hands. you can go and read the whole article if you want.
 
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@Thomas
yea, just like when Pakistan ISI gave the Taliban arms and ammunition. Ohh yea, and money and training..........all in the name if Geo political influence. I would say India is way less involved in Afghanistan then Pakistan. And has less blood on their hands.


US created Taliban and abandoned Pakistan: Clinton, By Anwar Iqbal
Saturday, 25 Apr, 2009 | 03:09 AM PST |
DAWN.COM | World |

WASHINGTON: Two days of continuous congressional hearings on the Obama administration’s foreign policy brought a rare concession from US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who acknowledged that the United States too had a share in creating the problem that plagues Pakistan today.

In an appearance before a subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee on Thursday, Mrs Clinton explained how the militancy in Pakistan was linked to the US-backed proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
‘We can point fingers at the Pakistanis. I did some yesterday frankly. And it’s merited because we are wondering why they just don’t go out there and deal with these people,’ said Mrs Clinton while referring to an earlier hearing in which she said that Pakistan posed a ‘mortal threat’ to the world.

‘But the problems we face now to some extent we have to take responsibility for, having contributed to it. We also have a history of kind of moving in and out of Pakistan,’ she said.

‘Let’s remember here… the people we are fighting today we funded them twenty years ago… and we did it because we were locked in a struggle with the Soviet Union.’


this is the statement of hilary clinton and will answer many of your questions related to blood on who s hands. you can go and read the whole article if you want.

no doubt that the U.S. made a grave mistake in not going in and rebuild Afghanistan after the Soviets left. but The U.S. did not directly fund, arm, or setup bases in Pakistan to train the Taliban.
 
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How about all that 'aid' to the brutal Northern Alliance warlords to perpetuate war and death so that India's 'strategic interests could be served and Pakistan denied influence?

These warlords were so bad that the Afghans welcomed the Taliban initially remember ...

India has plenty of blood on its hands in Afghanistan by virtue of supporting its own proxies.
 
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yes you are right, US did not give arms in their hands and train them, but provided the money to Pakistan to establish this whole taliban regime because it is quite imposiible for them at that time to create this whole thing in US and then deploy in afghanistan. dosnt that make US the master mind behind the whole scenario and you are blaming only Pakistan for it. US played an equal part, if not more, in this whole issue of developing taliban for the sake of cold war.

by the way, i can not understand one thing about US why they like to interfere in every countries business. first creating taliban for dividing USSR and then abandoning them (now they became a threat to the world). then Iraq, then Iraq again (where are the weapons of mass destruction)and afganistan. the US have killed so many innocent people in these countries on the basis of just rumors. i mean seriously they hanged saddam for killing iraqi citizens, shouldnt bush be hanged for the same reason? now US is trying to figure out where to go next north korea or iran. i mean what is wrong with US. interesting is after invading other countries and getting the benefit out of them US simply go out and leave a bigger mess than actually was present there. last but not the least after some years they start blaming other countries for that mess.

i am not saying that in taliban creation Pakistan has nothing to do but do not forget US has equal part in this problem.
 
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US has more than equal part in the problem. The Superiority over other continent made USA to heavily invest in this.
 
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It is the tax paying people of India that is giving the aid to Afghanistan not from PM's pocket. If u r a muslim u can call it a "Zakat" between nations. For us Indians, its just another good karma.

I doubt if the theory and practice of karma is going to be understandable to Pakistanis, otherwise they would never have found themselves in such mess.

And we should keep up our understanding of theory of karma, that only can save us from going the way of hate and cluelessness.
 
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Good for Afghanistan (with its citizens being benefited) and India (in a strategic perspective)...
 
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yes you are right, US did not give arms in their hands and train them, but provided the money to Pakistan to establish this whole taliban regime because it is quite imposiible for them at that time to create this whole thing in US and then deploy in afghanistan. dosnt that make US the master mind behind the whole scenario and you are blaming only Pakistan for it. US played an equal part, if not more, in this whole issue of developing taliban for the sake of cold war.

by the way, i can not understand one thing about US why they like to interfere in every countries business. first creating taliban for dividing USSR and then abandoning them (now they became a threat to the world). then Iraq, then Iraq again (where are the weapons of mass destruction)and afganistan. the US have killed so many innocent people in these countries on the basis of just rumors. i mean seriously they hanged saddam for killing iraqi citizens, shouldnt bush be hanged for the same reason? now US is trying to figure out where to go next north korea or iran. i mean what is wrong with US. interesting is after invading other countries and getting the benefit out of them US simply go out and leave a bigger mess than actually was present there. last but not the least after some years they start blaming other countries for that mess.

i am not saying that in taliban creation Pakistan has nothing to do but do not forget US has equal part in this problem.

care to show me some proof the U.S. provided money to establish the Taliban?

And actually I am not blaming Pakistan alone. all parties share equal guilt for for what they did to instigate things and what they did not to stop events from happening Including the U.S.. What I see though is one side so consumed with hate for the other. they look under every rock they can to find something to blame the other with. Even if that thing is so blatantly outlandish and crazy. All the while they are in denial of their own complicity.

one of the biggest problems I see with the Middle and Far East is. Everyone holds grudges. They become blindly consumed by them. It becomes a generational thing passed on from father to son. And in many cases this is done on purpose in order to raise up the next generation of suicide bomber or fighter. There will NEVER be peace so long as this remains the case. You have Pakistani and Indians hating each other. Muslims and Jews hating each other. Shia and Sunni hating each other. And the list goes on and on.
 
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^^ what is comming out of Times magazine and WSJ goes long way too.
 
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care to show me some proof the U.S. provided money to establish the Taliban?

And actually I am not blaming Pakistan alone. all parties share equal guilt for for what they did to instigate things and what they did not to stop events from happening Including the U.S.. What I see though is one side so consumed with hate for the other. they look under every rock they can to find something to blame the other with. Even if that thing is so blatantly outlandish and crazy. All the while they are in denial of their own complicity.

one of the biggest problems I see with the Middle and Far East is. Everyone holds grudges. They become blindly consumed by them. It becomes a generational thing passed on from father to son. And in many cases this is done on purpose in order to raise up the next generation of suicide bomber or fighter. There will NEVER be peace so long as this remains the case. You have Pakistani and Indians hating each other. Muslims and Jews hating each other. Shia and Sunni hating each other. And the list goes on and on.

Washington's Backing of Afghan Terrorists: Deliberate Policy

Introductory note

In the 'Times of India' article reprinted on Emperor's Clothes under the title "CIA worked with Pakistan to create Taliban", analyst Selig Harrison is quoted as follows:

"'The CIA made a historic mistake in encouraging Islamic groups from all over the world to come to Afghanistan.' The US provided $3 billion for building up these Islamic groups, and it accepted Pakistan's demand that they should decide how this money should be spent, Harrison said."

I disagree. The creation of Islamist terrorist organizations by the CIA has been a key part of U.S. policy, first in attacking the Soviet Union, and since then in an on-going war against Russia and the countries of the former Soviet Union and against Yugoslavia.

As the following article from the 'Washington Post' shows, Washington was no distant financier of the Afghan terrorists, unaware of how its money was being spent. Rather, it controlled the action. Today, Washington publicly condemns Islamist terrorism but this is two-faced for at the same time Washington and its partners continue to create, support and manage Islamist terrorist and related groups (for instance, the 'Kosovo Liberation Army' terrorists). For Washington, organized terror is a weapon of Empire. - Jared Israel.

Anatomy of a Victory: CIA's Covert Afghan War

By: Steve Coll, 'Washington Post', July 19, 1992

A specially equipped C-141 Starlifter transport carrying William Casey touched down at a military air base south of Islamabad in October 1984 for a secret visit by the CIA director to plan strategy for the war against Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Helicopters lifted Casey to three secret training camps near the Afghan border, where he watched mujaheddin rebels fire heavy weapons and learn to make bombs with CIA-supplied plastic explosives and detonators.

During the visit, Casey startled his Pakistani hosts by proposing that they take the Afghan war into enemy territory -- into the Soviet Union itself. Casey wanted to ship subversive propaganda through Afghanistan to the Soviet Union's predominantly Muslim southern republics. The Pakistanis agreed, and the CIA soon supplied thousands of Korans, as well as books on Soviet atrocities in Uzbekistan and tracts on historical heroes of Uzbek nationalism, according to Pakistani and Western officials.

"We can do a lot of damage to the Soviet Union," Casey said, according to Mohammed Yousaf, a Pakistani general who attended the meeting.

Casey's visit was a prelude to a secret Reagan administration decision in March 1985, reflected in National Security Decision Directive 166, to sharply escalate U.S. covert action in Afghanistan, according to Western officials. Abandoning a policy of simple harassment of Soviet occupiers, the Reagan team decided secretly to let loose on the Afghan battlefield an array of U.S. high technology and military expertise in an effort to hit and demoralize Soviet commanders and soldiers. Casey saw it as a prime opportunity to strike at an overextended, potentially vulnerable Soviet empire.

Eight years after Casey's visit to Pakistan, the Soviet Union is no more. Afghanistan has fallen to the heavily armed, fraticidal mujaheddin rebels. The Afghans themselves did the fighting and dying -- and ultimately won their war against the Soviets -- and not all of them laud the CIA's role in their victory. But even some sharp critics of the CIA agree that in military terms, its secret 1985 escalation of covert support to the mujaheddin made a major difference in Afghanistan, the last battlefield of the long Cold War.

How the Reagan administration decided to go for victory in the Afghan war between 1984 and 1988 has been shrouded in secrecy and clouded by the sharply divergent political agendas of those involved. But with the triumph of the mujaheddin rebels over Afghanistan's leftist government in April and the demise of the Soviet Union, some intelligence officials involved have decided to reveal how the covert escalation was carried out.

The most prominent of these former intelligence officers is Yousaf, the Pakistani general who supervised the covert war between 1983 and 1987 and who last month published in Europe and Pakistan a detailed account of his role and that of the CIA, titled "The Bear Trap."

This article and another to follow are based on extensive interviews with Yousaf as well as with more than a dozen senior Western officials who confirmed Yousaf's disclosures and elaborated on them.

U.S. officials worried about what might happen if aspects of their stepped-up covert action were exposed -- or if the program succeeded too well and provoked the Soviets to react in hot anger. The escalation that began in 1985 "was directed at killing Russian military officers," one Western official said. "That caused a lot of nervousness."

One source of jitters was that Pakistani intelligence officers -- partly inspired by Casey -- began independently to train Afghans and funnel CIA supplies for scattered strikes against military installations, factories and storage depots within Soviet territory.

The attacks later alarmed U.S. officials in Washington, who saw military raids on Soviet territory as "an incredible escalation," according to Graham Fuller, then a senior U.S. intelligence official who counseled against any such raids. Fearing a large-scale Soviet response and the fallout of such attacks on U.S.-Soviet diplomacy, the Reagan administration blocked the transfer to Pakistan of detailed satellite photographs of military targets inside the Soviet Union, other U.S. officials said.

To Yousaf, who managed the Koran-smuggling program and the guerrilla raids inside Soviet territory, the United States ultimately "chickened out" on the question of taking the secret Afghan war onto Soviet soil. Nonetheless, Yousaf recalled, Casey was "ruthless in his approach, and he had a built-in hatred for the Soviets."

An intelligence coup in 1984 and 1985 triggered the Reagan administration's decision to escalate the covert progam in Afghanistan, according to Western officials. The United States received highly specific, sensitive information about Kremlin politics and new Soviet war plans in Afghanistan. Already under pressure from Congress and conservative activists to expand its support to the mujaheddin, the Reagan administration moved in response to this intelligence to open up its high-technology arsenal to aid the Afghan rebels.

Beginning in 1985, the CIA supplied mujaheddin rebels with extensive satellite reconnaissance data of Soviet targets on the Afghan battlefield, plans for military operations based on the satellite intelligence, intercepts of Soviet communications, secret communications networks for the rebels, delayed timing devices for tons of C-4 plastic explosives for urban sabotage and sophisticated guerrilla attacks, long-range sniper rifles, a targeting device for mortars that was linked to a U.S. Navy satellite, wire-guided anti-tank missiles, and other equipment.
The move to upgrade aid to the mujaheddin roughly coincided with the well-known decision in 1986 to provide the mujaheddin with sophisticated, U.S.-made Stinger antiaircraft missiles. Before the missiles arrived, however, those involved in the covert war wrestled with a wide-ranging and at times divisive debate over how far they should go in challenging the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.

Roots of the Rebellion

In 1980, not long after Soviet forces invaded Afghanistan to prop up a sympathetic leftist government, President Jimmy Carter signed the first -- and for many years the only -- presidential "finding" on Afghanistan, the classified directive required by U.S. law to begin covert operations, according to several Western sources familiar with the Carter document.

The Carter finding sought to aid Afghan rebels in "harassment" of Soviet occupying forces in Afghanistan through secret supplies of light weapons and other assistance. The finding did not talk of driving Soviet forces out of Afghanistan or defeating them militarily, goals few considered possible at the time, these sources said.

The cornerstone of the program was that the United States, through the CIA, would provide funds, some weapons and general supervision of support for the mujaheddin rebels, but day-to-day operations and direct contact with the mujaheddin would be left to the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI. The hands-off U.S. role contrasted with CIA operations in Nicaragua and Angola.

Saudi Arabia agreed to match U.S. financial contributions to the mujaheddin and distributed funds directly to ISI. China sold weapons to the CIA and donated a smaller number directly to Pakistan, but the extent of China's role has been one of the secret war's most closely guarded secrets.

In all, the United States funneled more than $ 2 billion in guns and money to the mujaheddin during the 1980s, according to U.S. officials. It was the largest covert action program since World War II.

In the first years after the Reagan administration inherited the Carter program, the covert Afghan war "tended to be handled out of Casey's back pocket," recalled Ronald Spiers, a former U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, the base of the Afghan rebels. Mainly from China's government, the CIA purchased assault rifles, grenade launchers, mines and SA-7 light antiaircraft weapons, and then arranged for shipment to Pakistan. Most of the weapons dated to the Korean War or earlier. The amounts were significant -- 10,000 tons of arms and ammunition in 1983, according to Yousaf -- but a fraction of what they would be in just a few years.

Beginning in 1984, Soviet forces in Afghanistan began to experiment with new and more aggressive tactics against the mujaheddin, based on the use of Soviet special forces, called the Spetsnaz, in helicopter-borne assaults on Afghan rebel supply lines. As these tactics succeeded, Soviet commanders pursued them increasingly, to the point where some U.S. congressmen who traveled with the mujaheddin -- including Rep. Charles Wilson (D-Tex.) and Sen. Gordon Humphrey (R-N.H.) -- believed that the war might turn against the rebels.

The new Soviet tactics reflected a perception in the Kremlin that the Red Army was in danger of becoming bogged down in Afghanistan and needed to take decisive steps to win the war, according to sensitive intelligence that reached the Reagan administration in 1984 and 1985, Western officials said. The intelligence came from the upper reaches of the Soviet Defense Ministry and indicated that Soviet hard-liners were pushing a plan to attempt to win the Afghan war within two years, sources said.

The new war plan was to be implemented by Gen. Mikhail Zaitsev, who was transferred from the prestigious command of Soviet forces in Germany to run the Soviet war in Afghanistan in the spring of 1985, just as Mikhail Gorbachev was battling hard-line rivals to take power in a Kremlin succession struggle.

Cracking the Kremlin's Strategy

The intelligence about Soviet war plans in Afghanistan was highly specific, according to Western sources. The Soviets intended to deploy one-third of their total Spetsnaz forces in Afghanistan -- nearly 2,000 "highly trained and motivated" paratroops, according to Yousaf. In addition, the Soviets intended to dispatch a stronger KGB presence to assist the special forces and regular troops, and they intended to deploy some of the Soviet Union's most sophisticated battlefield communications equipment, referred to by some as the "Omsk vans" -- mobile, integrated communications centers that would permit interception of mujaheddin battlefield communications and rapid, coordinated aerial attacks on rebel targets, such as the kind that were demoralizing the rebels by 1984.

At the Pentagon, U.S. military officers pored over the intelligence, considering plans to thwart the Soviet escalation, officials said. The answers they came up with, said a Western official, were to provide "secure communications [for the Afghan rebels], kill the gunships and the fighter cover, better routes for [mujaheddin] infiltration, and get to work on [Soviet] targets" in Afghanistan, including the Omsk vans, through the use of satellite reconnaissance and increased, specialized guerrilla training.

"There was a demand from my friends [in the CIA] to capture a vehicle intact with this sort of communications," recalled Yousaf, referring to the newly introduced mobile Soviet facilities. Unfortunately, despite much effort, Yousaf said, "we never succeeded in that."

"Spetsnaz was key," said Vincent Cannistraro, a CIA operations officer who was posted at the time as director of intelligence programs at the National Security Council. Not only did communications improve, but the Spetsnaz forces were willing to fight aggressively and at night. The problem, Cannistraro said, was that as the Soviets moved to escalate, the U.S. aid was "just enough to get a very brave people killed" because it encouraged the mujaheddin to fight but did not provide them with the means to win.

Conservatives in the Reagan administration and especially in Congress saw the CIA as part of the problem. Humphrey, the former senator and a leading conservative supporter of the mujaheddin, found the CIA "really, really reluctant" to increase the quality of support for the Afghan rebels to meet Soviet escalation. For their part, CIA officers felt the war was not going as badly as some skeptics thought, and they worried that it might not be possible to preserve secrecy in the midst of a major escalation. A sympathetic U.S. official said the agency's key decision-makers "did not question the wisdom" of the escalation, but were "simply careful."

In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166, and national security adviser Robert D. McFarlane signed an extensive annex, augmenting the original Carter intelligence finding that focused on "harassment" of Soviet occupying forces, according to several sources. Although it covered diplomatic and humanitarian objectives as well, the new, detailed Reagan directive used bold language to authorize stepped-up covert military aid to the mujaheddin, and it made clear that the secret Afghan war had a new goal: to defeat Soviet troops in Afghanistan through covert action and encourage a Soviet withdrawal.

New Covert U.S. Aid

The new covert U.S. assistance began with a dramatic increase in arms supplies -- a steady rise to 65,000 tons annually by 1987, according to Yousaf -- as well as what he called a "ceaseless stream" of CIA and Pentagon specialists who traveled to the secret headquarters of Pakistan's ISI on the main road near Rawalpindi, Pakistan.

There the CIA specialists met with Pakistani intelligence officers to help plan operations for the Afghan rebels. At any one time during the Afghan fighting season, as many as 11 ISI teams trained and supplied by the CIA accompanied the mujaheddin across the border to supervise attacks, according to Yousaf and Western sources. The teams attacked airports, railroads, fuel depots, electricity pylons, bridges and roads, the sources said.

CIA and Pentagon specialists offered detailed satellite photographs and ink maps of Soviet targets around Afghanistan. The CIA station chief in Islamabad ferried U.S. intercepts of Soviet battlefield communications.

Other CIA specialists and military officers supplied secure communications gear and trained Pakistani instructors on how to use it. Experts on psychological warfare brought propaganda and books. Demolitions experts gave instructions on the explosives needed to destroy key targets such as bridges, tunnels and fuel depots. They also supplied chemical and electronic timing devices and remote control switches for delayed bombs and rockets that could be shot without a mujaheddin rebel present at the firing site.

The new efforts focused on strategic targets such as the Termez Bridge between Afghanistan and the Soviet Union. "We got the information like current speed of the water, current depth of the water, the width of the pillars, which would be the best way to demolish," Yousaf said. In Washington, CIA lawyers debated whether it was legal to blow up pylons on the Soviet side of the bridge as opposed to the Afghan side, in keeping with the decision not to support military action across the Soviet border, a Western official said.

Despite several attempts, Afghan rebels trained in the new program never brought the Termez Bridge down, though they did damage and destroy other targets, such as pipelines and depots, in the sensitive border area, Western and Pakistani sources said.

The most valuable intelligence provided by the Americans was the satellite reconnaissance, Yousaf said. Soon the wall of Yousaf's office was covered with detailed maps of Soviet targets in Afghanistan such as airfields, armories and military buildings. The maps came with CIA assessments of how best to approach the target, possible routes of withdrawal, and analysis of how Soviet troops might respond to an attack. "They would say there are the vehicles, and there is the [river bank], and there is the tank," Yousaf said.

CIA operations officers helped Pakistani trainers establish schools for the mujaheddin in secure communications, guerrilla warfare, urban sabotage and heavy weapons, Yousaf and Western officials said.

The first antiaircraft systems used by the mujaheddin were the Swiss-made Oerlikon heavy gun and the British-made Blowpipe missile, according to Yousaf and Western sources. When these proved ineffective, the United States sent the Stinger. Pakistani officers traveled to the United States for training on the Stinger in June 1986 and then set up a secret mujaheddin Stinger training facility in Rawalpindi, complete with an electronic simulator made in the United States. The simulator allowed mujaheddin trainees to aim and fire at a large screen without actually shooting off expensive missiles, Yousaf said. The screen marked the missile's track and calculated whether the trainee would have hit his airborne target.

Ultimately, the effectiveness of such training and battlefield intelligence depended on the mujaheddin themselves; their performance and willingness to employ disciplined tactics varied greatly. Yousaf considered the aid highly valuable, although persistently marred by supplies of weapons such as the Blowpipe that failed miserably on the battlefield.

At the least, the escalation on the U.S. side initiated with Reagan's 1985 National Security Directive helped to change the character of the Afghan war, intensifying the struggle and raising the stakes for both sides. This change led U.S. officials to confront a difficult question that had legal, military, foreign policy and even moral implications: In taking the Afghan covert operation more directly to the Soviet enemy, how far should the United States be prepared to go?

(c) 'Washington Post', 1992. Posted for Fair Use Only

i think this article will be enough to answer your question. US was not only involved with money but also provided weapon for fighting Russians.
 
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secondly, you are right and this is what i was talking about, you can not blame only Pakistan for the afghanistan and creation of taliban. Pakistan and US were equal partners in this, for their own benefits. USSR got broken and cold war finshed with US as a winner and for pakistan we get many high tech defence and military equipment during that era from US which may be would not be easy to get.
 
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Let India built roads in Afghanistan.....but how come are they going to do trade without bypassing Pakistan?

India first sends goods and other stuff via sea to Chabahar port in Iran which India is developing there. Then from Chabahar it goes via Iranian Railways to Afghan Border from there the roads are ready. Last year a strategic highway in Afghanistan was inagurated by Pranav Mukerjee.
 
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secondly, you are right and this is what i was talking about, you can not blame only Pakistan for the afghanistan and creation of taliban. Pakistan and US were equal partners in this, for their own benefits. USSR got broken and cold war finshed with US as a winner and for pakistan we get many high tech defence and military equipment during that era from US which may be would not be easy to get.

if you read what I wrote then you will see I didn't blame only Pakistan. What I saw was though Certain Pakistani posters that refuse to admit Pakistan has played far more direct role in directly establishing the Taliban. They wanted to cast stones at India for giving economic aid. And while the U.S. did support the mujaheddin during the Soviet occupation. The Taliban were not even in existence then. What you did have were large numbers of Islamic extremists with nothing to do after the Soviets left. The U.S. made a big mistake in simply walking away after the Soviets left. Instead of helping to rebuilding Afghanistan.

And for those that still support the supposedly good Taliban of Afghanistan. just remember back to thesummer of 1998 when the Taliban swept north from Herat to the predominantly Hazara and Uzbek city of Mazar-i-Sharif, the largest city in the north. Entering at 10 am on 8 August 1998, for the next two days the Taliban drove their pickup trucks "up and down the narrow streets of Mazar-i-Sharif shooting to the left and right and killing everything that moved — shop owners, cart pullers, women and children shoppers and even goats and donkeys. More than 8000 noncombatants were reported killed in Mazar-i-Sharif and later in Bamiyan. Contrary to the injunctions of Islam, which demands immediate burial, the Taliban forbade anyone to bury the corpses for the first six days while they rotted in the summer heat and were eaten by dogs. In addition to this indiscriminate slaughter, the Taliban sought out and massacred members of the Hazara, a mostly Shia ethnic group, while in control of Mazar-i-Sharif.
 
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if you read what I wrote then you will see I didn't blame only Pakistan. What I saw was though Certain Pakistani posters that refuse to admit Pakistan has played far more direct role in directly establishing the Taliban.

And for those that still support the supposedly good Taliban of Afghanistan. just remember back to thesummer of 1998 when the Taliban swept north from Herat to the predominantly Hazara and Uzbek city of Mazar-i-Sharif, the largest city in the north. Entering at 10 am on 8 August 1998, for the next two days the Taliban drove their pickup trucks "up and down the narrow streets of Mazar-i-Sharif shooting to the left and right and killing everything that moved — shop owners, cart pullers, women and children shoppers and even goats and donkeys. More than 8000 noncombatants were reported killed in Mazar-i-Sharif and later in Bamiyan. Contrary to the injunctions of Islam, which demands immediate burial, the Taliban forbade anyone to bury the corpses for the first six days while they rotted in the summer heat and were eaten by dogs. In addition to this indiscriminate slaughter, the Taliban sought out and massacred members of the Hazara, a mostly Shia ethnic group, while in control of Mazar-i-Sharif.

i agree to the fact that both US and pakistan were equally involved.:cheers:

by the way, i am not a supporter of taliban (whether good or bad)and do not like their ideology as well. i want Pakistan to be cleaned from them and our forces are doing a great job.:yahoo:

about indias role in afghanistan, i do not want to comment on that because i am not sure about it but rumors on this forum and otherwise are that they are involved in either helping taliban against Pakistan or whatever. as far as strategic importance of this area is concerned, i think india and US will definitely get benefited a lot if they stay in afghanistan (US can sit and watch China, Russia, Pakistan[all are nuclear powers] from there and India can sit and keep an eye on china and pakistan [really good friends and bad relations with india] will be surrounded by them from 2 sides). i mean, i am not a defence person but this is what i am able to understand. i dont know how correct is my imagination in this regard. may be some pak army personal can shed some light on it.

regards
 
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How about all that 'aid' to the brutal Northern Alliance warlords to perpetuate war and death so that India's 'strategic interests could be served and Pakistan denied influence?

How about the aid given to Khalistani's by Zia so that Pakistan's ole interest of destabilizing India can be served?

Now tell me who was the first here?

Pakistan aiding Khalistan or India aiding NA who is apparently enemy of Taliban who is (Taliban) are apparently friends of Pakistan.

These warlords were so bad that the Afghans welcomed the Taliban initially remember ...

Nope. Not a single Afghan welcomed Taliban ever. NA and especially Ahmed Shah Mehsud is only hated by Hazara's as he had crimes against them.

As of today Ahmed Shah Meshud (slain leader of NA) is a National Hero of Afghanistan officailly.

These warlords were so bad that the Afghans welcomed the Taliban initially remember ...

India has plenty of blood on its hands in Afghanistan by virtue of supporting its own proxies.

By supporting and recognizing Taliban, Pakistan is a bigger villian. Not to forget how Pakistan betrayed its own proxy post 9/11.

GB
 
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