India has 10 Satellite Monitoring Borders

[MilesTogo]

Just curious - does Pakistan have any parternships with China for space exploration?

There have been recent developments but the focus (and obsession) has always been solely with defending the country against any aggression and conducting an offensive strike. For that, the best of SUPARCO lot have been stolen always for the missile program leaving the poor ones behind to look after satellite development and the SLV program has been a victim of the obsession with missile development. I won't say it's a thin line but we could have and can have an SLV if we put an emphasis on it within a couple of years. However what would we launch on it? A single communications satellite is in development and it's a seriously archaic one.

However, the space program was one of our initial national scientific successes with numerous regional breakthroughs and the entire organization was successful in developing local capabilities. Since the late '80s it has become a victim of the sole focus on missiles, more advanced warheads and the military machine has at least for now stolen the dream of a SLV.

I seriously hope we launch a number of comm and EO satellites, but let us feed and teach the poor first. This can be halted for sometime.

 

[brahmastra]

what satellite pak use for communication purpose(if they don't have military then the civil one.)? which country helped you to put it in the orbit? how many total satellites?

 

[sparklingway]

what satellite pak use for communication purpose(if they don't have military then the civil one.)? which country helped you to put it in the orbit? how many total satellites?

PAKSAT-I is the only communication satellite in orbit. It was not launched by us, it was known as Palapa and owned by an Indonesian company.

Two other experimental satellites are in orbit. The first was Badr-I launched in 1990 aboard a Chinese LM-2E and the other is Badr-B which was launched in 2001 aboard a Zenit-2 from the famous Baikonour.

 

[sparklingway]

Just curious - does Pakistan have any parternships with China for space exploration?

Yes. Not as expansive as in other fields though.

 

[brahmastra]

sorry for the off topic,

if pak has onlt one sat. in the orbit than communication costs in the country must be high. ex. telephone,mobile,cable service. if i'm not wrong than you need sats. for those things.

 

[gowthamraj]

But we have no radar on space like uncle sam

 

[AliFarooq]

sorry for the off topic,

if pak has onlt one sat. in the orbit than communication costs in the country must be high. ex. telephone,mobile,cable service. if i'm not wrong than you need sats. for those things.

for some odd reason communication costs are cheap

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is one of those threads that should never have been begun, or should have been posted in a healthier manner right from the outset.

Really intresting that as we speak Indian military as access to real time data from space re China & India from 10 satalites

Pakistan does not have even one as yet

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

I wish you had not quoted this news-source. Bharat Rakshak is given to twisting perfectly normal bits of information to make it appear like a military breakthrough. It is to be consulted with care and scepticism.

India does NOT have a policy of militarising space. The Indian Space Research Organisation does NOT have a policy of building missiles for military applications, or of building satellites for military applications. Several of its best scientists are committed to peace, and would have nothing to do with building weapons of mass destruction.

Both missiles and satellites, however, are capable of dual use. ISRO does not dictate the payload; it merely puts it into orbit. It has its own programme of satellites, and this is one of them, intended for purely peaceful purposes. However, every peaceful application can be put to military or non-peaceful uses; viewers of the movie ‘Marathon Man’ may get the point!

In this case, it might help to understand the nature of work done by a cartographic satellite. It takes pictures of the earth, in larger or lesser detail, using high-resolution cameras on board. While it passes across a certain ‘swathe’ of earth, covering a ribbon on the surface, it takes continuous pictures. Thereafter, when it returns to ‘visibility’ of a download station, it downloads the pictures to the earth station, the download station. As readers can understand, when taking pictures in the same general location of the earth station, the satellite has to wait for the time taken to make a complete circuit of the earth to download. As readers will also understand, the satellite continues to make passes, every pass typically slightly offset from the first; this gives a ‘stereoscopic’ effect, which is later pieced together to give a complete picture of the relevant surface features on earth.

Pictures are NOT taken and inspected in real-time, they are inspected after downloading and thereafter on receipt by the cartographic section. Please recall this is not designed for military applications but can be used for these applications.

I request 'Storm Force' to indicate where in the original report it says that real-time monitoring is possible. In fact, it is not; it is complete lack of comprehension by 'Storm Force' that has created the further controversies and silly arguments around the subject.

To be the kind of military satellite that posters seem to have visualised in their posts, a completely different technology is needed. A military application specifically tasked to military observation of the country’s borders would probably be a low-earth orbit geo-stationary satellite, permitting ultra-high resolution, and on-line downloads and even on-line analysis, with a delay of a small amount of time.

The article quoted has been given a mischievous spin, and should be seen for what it is.

Please note, however, that except for battlefield or real-time observation, this method is also completely satisfactory for military applications of mapping technology. The resident military aviation expert will be able to tell us – I am not at liberty to do so – about the applications that an interdiction mission, flying hi-lo-hi, would use in this regard.

nice...10 more should be there

Redundant; unless one wants on-line surveillance applications, not cartographic like this was designed to do.

That's where China comes in. I bet you have heard of the Kohuta attack by Indian and Israeli jets, right?

Chinese satellites detected them WAY before they even got near the border, they informed PAF and within minutes they were off and the attack was a failure.

There are projects proposed with Turkey and China at the moment.

We have indigenously made sattelites, but no space port. Those satellite are used for civil purposes only. Until then China has Pakistans back.

No, I have not heard of such a fabulous incident. There was no such incident. There was specifically no collaboration between Indian and Israeli jets. If Indian jets had been involved, Chinese surveillance WOULD NOT have detected them before they got to their sites. For your information, the flight time required is less than the time for download, analysis and communication of the information from Chinese analysts to Chinese leadership, and added to that is the decision cycle, the time to communicate to the Pakistani leadership and the decision cycle at the Pakistani end, before jets start to taxi on the runway. And please don’t tell me that the PAF runs 24 * 7 CAP over their nuclear sites; that itself would be a dead giveaway.

Secondly, your facts about your own country's capabilities are utter nonsense. You do have satellites but the wrong kind. The following quotation makes the point clear. You do have space ports, but do not use them, because of an obsession with things military.

Please do not manufacture folk tales out of thin air. It is utterly disgraceful that such concoctions are put out to satisfy fan-boy egos.

No we don't have. Weather satellites don't really count as satellites. We nearly lost our only reserved spot and rely on an Indonesian satellite that suffered numerous problems and was abandoned. It was relocated to our reserved orbital location and caters to our communication needs now.

PAKSAT-IR, the one in development is utterly an archaic design. I have studied it and I've got numerous friends still working on the project. SUPARCO is one big sinkhole of an organization.

Patriotism need not make one claim what is not true. India is way, way, way ahead of us in the space department. They've got numerous EOS and Cartosat-II just added another one to their list. And we do have a spaceport(s). Both Tilla and Sonmiani have been upgraded recently.

One of the few sound and knowledgeable interventions.

Thank you.

It is a great pity that Pakistani effort got diverted. Space is a fascinating frontier, and extremely rewarding, without going anywhere near any military application.

Hairat hai yar they have ten satellites protecting their border, still they were unable to detect Pakistani boat with Ajmal entering mumbai on 26/11. Interesting

Would you be annoyed if I called this silly and immature? A geographical mapping satellite is not designed to inform its launchers and users about hostile intent within a small fishing boat, ostensibly a peaceful fishing boat of Indian origin within Indian waters.

So where were ur satellites when Pakistani capturing the boat and where were they when they entered in ur area with weapons or whatever. Your statement is a weaking one by its ownself.

I notice that this poster is insistent on proving himself; he has done so successfully, but not what he hoped to. Unfortunately, the proof that emerges is vastly derogatory of his intellectual capabilities.

The sequence of events is clear from the lone surviving perpetrator’s confession before a judicial magistrate.

A Pakistani boat was launched from Pakistan, from an institutional jetty, isolated from the commercial stream. It proceeded to sea, and intercepted an Indian fishing boat. The crew were immediately slaughtered like animals, and only the Tindal, the steersman, was kept alive to complete the navigation until the port of Mumbai was reached. He was then killed and the last leg of the journey completed by the band of terrorists themselves, navigating by visual direction to a jetty.

A geographical application is not designed, nor was the surveillance system designed to put together both a Pakistani boat setting out from harbour, and connecting to an Indian boat also set out from an Indian harbour, and the two boats then separating. What was to have been made of that? To make proper sense of this incident, every Pakistani craft has to be monitored to track its passage from and to its originating harbour, and every Indian craft has to be monitored likewise.

The intelligent reader will have noticed that there is yet another method of achieving these mid-sea interceptions, but there is no point in highlighting this.

where was the satellite ?? the sattelite had gone for a lunch break...

whats so difficult for you to understand here ? lol..

It was an Indian fishing boat entering Indian shore...the boat was captured miles away in the deep waters away from shore, our sattelites are for monitoring the borders and not small boats fishing miles away from the land....then we will need more than thousand of sattelite if we start monitoring these boats...

Our satellites are specifically for mapping the land and discovering those features that identify potential mineral resources. Unlike others, our space programme is a peaceful programme; it would have been ridiculously easy to have converted it to a military programme or started it as a military programme at the outset.

Unfortunately, as perhaps some are beginning to realise to their cost, military programmes drink money, in the billions; peaceful programmes earn a dividend. That is an essential difference in two ways of looking at the world.

Surprising that Pakistan does not have a space program considering that Pakistan has an active missile program. The line between launching warheads and satellites is very thin.

Of course Satellites have to be made to be launched but that is usually the easier part.

There is nothing surprising about this. The reasons are obvious. To mention them would be to slight our hosts, and I shall leave it to the imagination of the reader to fill in the gaps.

u r right..Indian missiles is purely Indian missile...

This is incorrect; no missile system in the world today is an original discovery with no foreign injection of technology. Not the American, not the Russian, not the Chinese, not the Korean – none. The originators are dead and gone.

Ya sure...and all India's missiles are of course by Indians without Russian help.

No, that is not true.

The Indian integrated missile programme took existing missiles, reverse engineered them and re-built them to their own specifications. These were short-range and medium-short range missiles, largely derived – I am generalising now – from surface to air missiles in our inventory.

The space programme went about it in a completely different way. Engines were bought, components were bought, but in a painstaking way, every aspect of space launch missiles was developed in house.

I speak with complete authority and credentials on the subject.

However, for our American (apparently) poster, since he is stuck in an unimaginative and ignorant mental position, let me remind him of Tom Lehrer's immortal couplet:

"Once the rocket goes up, where does it come down?
" 'That's not my business', said Werner von Braun."

I hope he, and others, will get the hint, although, considering his antecedents, I am not hopeful.

There have been recent developments but the focus (and obsession) has always been solely with defending the country against any aggression and conducting an offensive strike. For that, the best of SUPARCO lot have been stolen always for the missile program leaving the poor ones behind to look after satellite development and the SLV program has been a victim of the obsession with missile development. I won't say it's a thin line but we could have and can have an SLV if we put an emphasis on it within a couple of years. However what would we launch on it? A single communications satellite is in development and it's a seriously archaic one.

However, the space program was one of our initial national scientific successes with numerous regional breakthroughs and the entire organization was successful in developing local capabilities. Since the late '80s it has become a victim of the sole focus on missiles, more advanced warheads and the military machine has at least for now stolen the dream of a SLV.

I seriously hope we launch a number of comm and EO satellites, but let us feed and teach the poor first. This can be halted for sometime.

I can only say that this poster has the only grip on reality in the series that I have had the misfortune to plough through so far.

This is a sad reflection of a downward spiral of development. I sincerely hope that the peaceful uses of space will take a larger portion of the Pakistani establishment mindset than hitherto.

PAKSAT-I is the only communication satellite in orbit. It was not launched by us, it was known as Palapa and owned by an Indonesian company.

Two other experimental satellites are in orbit. The first was Badr-I launched in 1990 aboard a Chinese LM-2E and the other is Badr-B which was launched in 2001 aboard a Zenit-2 from the famous Baikonour.

Perfectly correct.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to the notice of the readers that the missile-craft developed by ISRO is vastly different from the missile-craft developed by the integrated missile development programme.

The missiles for our space programme are not suitable for quick launch under conditions of a first strike already airborne and coming our way. They are typically designed for a different set of parameters, where speed of response is not an issue. A space launch takes up to two weeks from inception; only the final count-down gets publicised, with complete obfuscation of what really happens.

Sincerely,

 

[Joe Shearer]

Delusional people from all sides.....

Dear Sir,

While this is decidedly off-topic, would you like some tutoring on the origins and development of the American missile programme, since you appear to be labouring under a lot of delusions? It may be slightly painful, but I understand that an American saying goes,'No pain, no gain'.

You just have to say the word.

Sincerely,

 

[indushek]

Dear Sir,

While this is decidedly off-topic, would you like some tutoring on the origins and development of the American missile programme, since you appear to be labouring under a lot of delusions? It may be slightly painful, but I understand that an American saying goes,'No pain, no gain'.

You just have to say the word.

Sincerely,

Man ur on helluva poster u are. Hatsoff

 

[nForce]

The report creating all this turmoil::::

10 eyes in the sky give India space edge​

CHENNAI: With the successful launch of Cartosat-2B on Monday, India has reached a `critical constellation' of 10 active remote sensing satellites in space, which gives it a clear edge in the region for monitoring borders and movements across them.

While mapping and infrastructure development are seen as primary applications of a remote sensing satellite, its use in spying is often underplayed. A combination of four Cartosats (1,2,2A and 2B) hovering 630 km above earth allows India to keep areas under close and prolonged surveillance. Multiple satellites ensure that a particular geographical area can be `revisited' every 48 hours.

Three of the cartosats now in orbit have a spatial resolution of less than one metre (0.8 m for Cartosat-2B), which means that they can observe and photograph objects smaller than a car. Cartosat-2B's steerability of 26 degrees allows it to stay focused on the object for a longer duration while on the move as compared to the other remote sensing satellites, which have a range of applications.

"The latest addition enhances our revisit capability and ensures continuity of services. The revisit capability of one such satellite is about 10 days, but with four such satellites, we can revisit an area almost every other day. With Cartosat-1 (launched in 2005) likely to complete its mission in another year, Cartosat-2B ensures there is no break in services,'' Isro spokesperson S Satish told TOI.

China has launched nine remote sensing satellites in the `Yaogan' series since 2006 using its Long March range of rockets. With the addition of Cartosat-2B to the constellation, India has matched if not outdone China in remote sensing. Pakistan, meanwhile, is still working on its first remote sensing satellite PRSSS, which it plans to launch next year with China's help.

Asked specifically about Cartosat-2B's applications in surveillance, Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan said: "Depending on the user's imagination, it can be used for surveillance and intelligence (gathering).''

India was working on its indigenous radar imaging satellite Risat-1, an all-weather satellite which uses a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) and multiple antennas to see through clouds and darkness, when the 2008 Mumbai attacks happened. This prompted the nation to speed up and launch the Israeli Risat-2 satellite with SAR on April 20, 2009. Risat-1 is scheduled for launch late this year.

Cartosats use panchromatic cameras to take black and white pictures of earth. While cartosat-1 weighed 1560 kg and had a spatial resolution of 2.5 metres and a swathe of 30 km, the later versions had a finer spatial resolution of less than a metre and a swathe of 9.6 km.

Going around in a 630-km high polar sun synchronous orbit, Cartosat-2B carries a 64GB solid state recorder which stores images which can be later transmitted to the ground station when the satellite comes within the visibility range. The Spacecraft Control Centre, Bangalore will be continuously monitoring the satellite's health with the help of the ISTRAC network of ground stations at Bangalore, Lucknow, Mauritius, Biak in Indonesia, Svalbard in Norway and Troll in Antarctica.


10 eyes in the sky give India space edge

The news has been posted before in some other thread.

 

[toxic_pus]

This is one of those threads that should never have been begun, or should have been posted in a healthier manner right from the outset.

<snip>

Joe, another gem of a post.

No, that is not true.

The Indian integrated missile programme took existing missiles, reverse engineered them and re-built them to their own specifications. These were short-range and medium-short range missiles, largely derived &#8211; I am generalising now &#8211; from surface to air missiles in our inventory.

SA-2 SAM (NATO codename 'Guideline') was reverse engineered, and later heavily modified, to make a liquid fueled engine for the single stage Prithvi. Prithvi's single stage later on became the Agni 'Technology Demonstrator's' 2nd stage.

True, but reverse engineering of SA-2 probably can't be called 'Russian help' in same sense, or of the same nature, that our western neighbour received from their 'deeper than ocean' friends.

....let me remind him of Tom Lehrer's immortal couplet:

"Once the rocket goes up, where does it come down?
" 'That's not my business', said Werner von Braun."

Reminds me of Kalam's 'bouquet of flowers' comment.

 

[gowthamraj]

Good post by joe.

India going to launch military sati in 2014 and that also formed by DRDO

 

[Choppers]

MODS plz Close this Meaningless Thread

 

[JF-17_Thunder]

No we don't have. Weather satellites don't really count as satellites. We nearly lost our only reserved spot and rely on an Indonesian satellite that suffered numerous problems and was abandoned. It was relocated to our reserved orbital location and caters to our communication needs now.

PAKSAT-IR, the one in development is utterly an archaic design. I have studied it and I've got numerous friends still working on the project. SUPARCO is one big sinkhole of an organization.

Patriotism need not make one claim what is not true. India is way, way, way ahead of us in the space department. They've got numerous EOS and Cartosat-II just added another one to their list. And we do have a spaceport(s). Both Tilla and Sonmiani have been upgraded recently.

China does gives us satellite intel.