I have a long history with both (and others that may seem decent at relative cursory glance) hehe. They also are a mixed bag capable of some very foul unnecessary interaction/escalation (prompting same from me over time unfortunately which I wish I never did looking back, it just degraded my own name), depends on the topic though...and how much they decided to invest into the rumble. Way too much bad blood has flown between us overall as result....the kinds of gory videos and pictures topcat (aka iajdani) for example posted on my profile page (or even post in a thread and insta-delete after he thought i clicked on them)...maybe
@Aung Zaya remembers those...or how species went into drone mode about Tamil this and that and Indian PISA scores and whatever else struck his fancy to feel better about lack of attention to anything of the sort in the first place in his country....by attempting to degrade another. Both are very capable of ad hominem and personal attacks if you rumble with them on the right topics and long enough.
Then they would start their pack mentality by herding all their commentary (over more members) together to bait and then delete the worst ones before the mods could react...let the rest ferment and then cry foul at whatever is left standing to virtue signal and create another egoistic escalation down the road.
After all what royally angers them (and sustained more of the foul trolling wars) that they could never fix is the impression observers got of 1 lion versus multiple hyenas...because of that pack strategy they used for a good year or so when things were rapidly deteriorating after our initial (optimistic) contact period....and it got exacerbated by me prodding around and exposing their weak sensitive points often by just re-posting what they themselves posted/claimed earlier. Most relatively neutral observers pretty much stumbled across only 10% or so of the threads (given repetitive nature of the threads back then and still today)....so they didn't quite grasp how extensive this rot was back then and still is (if you care to look into it). Anyways that is all water under the bridge now.....time to move on....maybe at some point some renaissance of how things were when I first joined can happen, guess we will see.
I am wise to their tactics now, I just do not engage for most part now (and many of them do the same on their end, label me as psycho or whatever to help with it). Mostly focus on just "final word/karma" kind of threads now, as much as possible reported in their own media....so maybe 1% of what I used to post here....because I know they all read it (and refer to what I told them earlier about it in a lot of the "mad mood" as joe puts it) and maybe it rankles them and hopefully they get shaken out of their fantasy stupor over time for benefit of their own people who mostly have not had the luck to been born into equivalent circumstances to waste this much time here on some forum theatrics.
BTW I measure "best" members here by their consistency basically. Do they contradict themselves?...do they consistently present their views fairly and squarely?...and how much do they use facts (posting clear strong evidence) in their reasoning to get to the truth (and accept/compromise wherever the logic chain deviates from their original hypothesis)?....rather than rely on emotion (and thus run into opinions only). There are literally 3 (mainstream decent post count) members that have done it at a high threshold here, unfortunately none really post anymore (I do see loki from time to time though). A further dozen or so are on and off regarding this in varying degrees (i.e they can show this attitude, but often the complete reverse too...I seen the best of them and the worst of them...often the worst far exceeds the best unfortunately but they are only human and its a forum after all). The rest multiple dozens (and however many are cloned accounts I don't bother to think about anymore) are abject failures for this forum and are either totally scatterbrained or completely droning parrots....and the bad influence they exert on the rest is never far behind.
After all Supa-powa BD, force plan 2030 STRONK 
