India far behind China’s combat power

[SrNair]

Thank god you guys finally accepted the fact.

So what is your point? we know our limit .China a big economy than us so they have large military.India has military within its own econmic capacity.Fact is that pakistan try to increase their military beyond their capacity.Through aid or through soft loans.India or China is not like that.You can ask yourself why china cant increase their military budget to 600billion$,so they can out class USA.
Same reason Economy ,US economy is that much and it is a developed country .In present case if China increase their military budget to 600billion$ ,they will severly bleed Chinese economy because is competing US and same goes to India ,If India try to match more than 100billion$ budget ,Indian economy will bleed.But we already take enough measures for that and it is mentioned in article.But even it is present case they cant defeat India.
But India measures to counter China will trouble Pakistan .And it is already happen
,now we can see pak leaders cry on daily basis over Indian military modernization

They compares Numbers and not the quality.

Quantity has it own quality

 

[IND151]

Total strength of IAF is 1,473 aircrafts

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...cO10iy5H_BNTVVGaCOMqEvg&bvm=bv.57967247,d.bmk

 

[SrNair]

This is weird from Indian members, I never understood it. Nobody I talked to in Canada, US ever considering buying Indian the same as buying American or European.

India doesn't produce quality.

India is not a developed country it's technology is actually worse than China, but for some reason, so many Indian members seems to think their tech is superior just because the Americans laugh at our quality.

Guess what, Americans being the sole super power could laugh at us. India is neither developed nor a great power. What the Americans can do, India can't.

Man you cant even understand what he posted.HARIPRASAD post is correct ,We dont develop large number of weapon system ,with high quality,because we have no infrastructure ,money and technology for that.But in some field like missiles and all weapons inducted by Indian Armed Forces
is world class quality.We are still large arms importer because our armed forces dont compromise in the field of quality .If IAF dont care about quality and only care about quantity ,then they already
induct LCA in large numbers,but you can see it not like that.Our DRDO is not get funding like chinese or Americans get.But when if Indian Armed Forces induct a product of DRDO ,you can be sure it has world class capability.period

 

[Iggy]

I think Rahul Singh woke up from a deep slumber now.. I mean did he take this much time to figure it out??

 

[SrNair]

True but China has an ally that is more than willing to go to war with you....But India's allies(Russia and USA) won't be actually willing to go to war with China....would they?

Really?If China will give their heart for their friends,If china will suffer anything for their friends,then what are they doing when pakistan met trouble in 1971 and 1999?We cant see China friendship for pakistan at that time ,But USA coming for the help in 1971 by mobilise their seventh fleet against Indian Navy.
Then tell me can China be real friend?.US already proved they value their allies.USA will fight war for their friends and allies.USSR now Russia also prove that by helping India in 1971.
But we dont from china like that expect some usual warnings

Yes they don't have JF-17 because they have J-10 and J-11 and SU-27 and SU-30 and really very soon J-15 and J-16


The massive speed they are growing these threats will be not much and their main focus is still on you Sir

Their main focus is USA.One can easily assume from their actions,which country China is taken as their bench mark

 

[jhungary]

Very funny, but here what i was trying to bring your attention to . Let's just take air force, U.S air force was always the best in world but if you look now days,its aging. Right now it has air crafts like F-15 which is as old as 40 years. And F-35 is the only new coming bird of U.S.
And if we look at China then their future birds are J-10B, J-15, J-16, J-18, J-20, J-31.
All i am saying is that U.S was the best in past but is now loosing the race of new technology. Where as China is rapidly developing in all fields of military when you compare it with other countries.

So, what you essentially saying is

The F-15E strike eagle being build today is the exact crap that was build in.1970s?

The F-16 Block 62 build today is the same aircraft we build again during the 80s?

The F-18 super hornet we build today is the same standard of the F-18A we first build in 1979?

Lol you would think we just keep building aircraft over the span of 40 years without updating it? Lol

And what do you know about new aircraft being build in the US, do you even know while the rest of the world are scratching their head on fifth gen aircraft, Boeing and LM are scratching their head on a sixth gen?

Either you are very stupid or you are very arrogant

 

[rameshpak123]

yes but 40 yr old F-15 orF-16 is still better than J-10, J-16,J-15 and for J-20. And J-31 however they good might be arent comparable to F-22 or F-35.

I don't think that's the case. For instance let's look at J-10A performance because J-10B is under development.And also J-10A is the oldest one of these air crafts i mentioned. In a virtual air combat exercise, J-10 successfully targeted Vietnam's Su-30 for about 20 times and each plane was locked twice. And according to Su-30 pilots, they didn't even knew they were there.
And these new Chinese birds are much more lethal then F-15 and F-16.
And as far as F-22 is concerned then you will be stunned to find its defects, no wonder they cancelled its production.Defects are below:
1 - Its not all weather fighter, completely useless in rain.
2 - Its armour is very thin, making it vulnerable to old tech defenses such as anti aircraft gun, its shrapnel can easily damage the plane.
3 - Now this is a very dangerous defect.Pilot cannot drive it for more then 30 minutes, incase he flies it for longer time, he suffers Hypoxia, which result in lack of oxygen to the brain causing dizziness, confusion, poor judgment and loss of consciousness.
4 - Only on hour of flight costs 66 thousand dollars.
5 - Now this has to be its worst defect, only one hour of flight needs atleast 30 hours of maintenance. Now this greatly reduces its lethality. And its parts are super expensive, this plane is nightmare to maintain.
6 - It can only take 4 missiles.
There are even more defects but the point here is F-22 is just useless when you look at this. They will also replace all F-22 with F-35 when it comes to service after 2018. All i am saying is U.S is falling behind in many ways now. These are just air crafts.Even the F-35 is now receiving criticism and a lot of basic structural defects are already being pointed, but still its in development and saying anything right now will be inappropriate.

 

[SrNair]

Instead of China vs India. Let us compare it with Russsia and U.S.

First here is the video of future and present of Chinese military.Very informative vid.

And now here we see future of Russia.Over here this guy did poorly on spell check but still a good informative vid.

And this video shows only U.S air force but as we look that U.S is now using air crafts as old as 40 years old. Important thing to note is that China is using much newer military hardware plus testing much more new stuff compared to both these countries. This vid also skips F-18 and harriers but maybe because its part of NAVY.

As you can see now, China in future will be much much more advance then both of these countries, and comparing it with India is; i guess not right

USA and Russia ,they are different class, man.Russia has surplus oil resources and their arms
production facility ,well you may know Russians arms capability ,similar goes to USA both of them can sustain a war for long time both have technology ,oil,large military -industrial complex.Still whole the world use two types of fighter aircraft design ,one is Russian and other is American.Last decade economy of Russia is declined ,but now they are again rising ,only obstacle for them is their declining population.
But china maintain their economy ,through export .So there are still vulnerable to external pressures.
Their military industrial complex are not matured.At present they are not in league of US and Russia

China can build , India can buy.

No China can stole ,India can buy with offset

China is not interested in a war with India, that's all.

India is too far away from China.

We are not interested in a war with any one,until we are provoked.
Keep it up good overconfidence ,an advantage for India in required time

 

[rameshpak123]

So, what you essentially saying is

The F-15E strike eagle being build today is the exact crap that was build in.1970s?

The F-16 Block 62 build today is the same aircraft we build again during the 80s?

The F-18 super hornet we build today is the same standard of the F-18A we first build in 1979?

Lol you would think we just keep building aircraft over the span of 40 years without updating it? Lol

And what do you know about new aircraft being build in the US, do you even know while the rest of the world are scratching their head on fifth gen aircraft, Boeing and LM are scratching their head on a sixth gen?

Either you are very stupid or you are very arrogant

I am not showing any arrogance to anyone, nor am i laughing on U.S or what ever you are taking it. F-15 or 16 etc they do get updated from time to time. For instance, just recently in 2013 the USAF contracted for the Defensive Management System Modernization program to replace the antenna system and other electronics to increase the B-2's frequency awareness. And other planes are also updated with time.
But when you make a new fighter then its way more suitable to current time as compared to updated one. In a lot of aspects. And what i am trying to say here is that U.S is currently only testing F-35, while on other hand Russia is testing Mig-35, Su-35 and Pak-FA, and china is testing J-10B, J-16,J-15, J-20 and J-31. And its the same story in other fields of military.
My whole point is China is advancing much more rapidly then any country. You can call this arrogance or what ever you want to call it. You might disagree, doesn't mean its arrogance or something.

 

[SrNair]

Very funny, but here what i was trying to bring your attention to . Let's just take air force, U.S air force was always the best in world but if you look now days,its aging. Right now it has air crafts like F-15 which is as old as 40 years. And F-35 is the only new coming bird of U.S.
And if we look at China then their future birds are J-10B, J-15, J-16, J-18, J-20, J-31.
All i am saying is that U.S was the best in past but is now loosing the race of new technology. Where as China is rapidly developing in all fields of military when you compare it with other countries.

Ha ha you dont know about upgradation of fighters in air force

 

[rameshpak123]

Ha ha you dont know about upgradation of fighters in air force

Read my recent thread on page 5.

Read my recent thread on page 5.

I mean reply on page 5

Dont worry mate our pakistani friend live in delusions so that China overtake USA and Russia.A good cheerleader for China

Sorry, i am cheering for China here, i am saying that China is growing rapidly compared to U.S and Russia.

 

[SrNair]

I don't think that's the case. For instance let's look at J-10A performance because J-10B is under development.And also J-10A is the oldest one of these air crafts i mentioned. In a virtual air combat exercise, J-10 successfully targeted Vietnam's Su-30 for about 20 times and each plane was locked twice. And according to Su-30 pilots, they didn't even knew they were there.
And these new Chinese birds are much more lethal then F-15 and F-16.
And as far as F-22 is concerned then you will be stunned to find its defects, no wonder they cancelled its production.Defects are below:
1 - Its not all weather fighter, completely useless in rain.
2 - Its armour is very thin, making it vulnerable to old tech defenses such as anti aircraft gun, its shrapnel can easily damage the plane.
3 - Now this is a very dangerous defect.Pilot cannot drive it for more then 30 minutes, incase he flies it for longer time, he suffers Hypoxia, which result in lack of oxygen to the brain causing dizziness, confusion, poor judgment and loss of consciousness.
4 - Only on hour of flight costs 66 thousand dollars.
5 - Now this has to be its worst defect, only one hour of flight needs atleast 30 hours of maintenance. Now this greatly reduces its lethality. And its parts are super expensive, this plane is nightmare to maintain.
6 - It can only take 4 missiles.
There are even more defects but the point here is F-22 is just useless when you look at this. They will also replace all F-22 with F-35 when it comes to service after 2018. All i am saying is U.S is falling behind in many ways now. These are just air crafts.Even the F-35 is now receiving criticism and a lot of basic structural defects are already being pointed, but still its in development and saying anything right now will be inappropriate.

I am not sure about vietnam Su-30 problem with J-10b.If it is that case then vietnam dont order
20 more SU-30 aircraft in 2013.
Next case is only the problem with avionics of vietnam Su-30 versions.
India Su-30MkI uses Indian and Israeli avionics .So far Su-30mki can track j-10 before they can track Su-30MKi in north eastern sector of India.
Your point of F-22 is correct in some cases .But Hypoxia problem is already resolved.
Actual caliber of F-22 is still classified.you are correct about F-22 maintenance costs.
But at air ,still F-22 is unbeatable .No one can see F-22 in radar ,it is actually invisible in radar
Enemy fighters will finish before they see F-22 Raptor.F-22 also has classified EW systems and can jam enemy electronics system.It is top in case of SEAD operation and signal intelligence
After all it is that much poor ,then USAF dont maintain F-22 in their inventory ,with that expense.

 

[akshay gehlot]

I don't think that's the case. For instance let's look at J-10A performance because J-10B is under development.And also J-10A is the oldest one of these air crafts i mentioned. In a virtual air combat exercise, J-10 successfully targeted Vietnam's Su-30 for about 20 times and each plane was locked twice. And according to Su-30 pilots, they didn't even knew they were there.
And these new Chinese birds are much more lethal then F-15 and F-16.
And as far as F-22 is concerned then you will be stunned to find its defects, no wonder they cancelled its production.Defects are below:
1 - Its not all weather fighter, completely useless in rain.
2 - Its armour is very thin, making it vulnerable to old tech defenses such as anti aircraft gun, its shrapnel can easily damage the plane.
3 - Now this is a very dangerous defect.Pilot cannot drive it for more then 30 minutes, incase he flies it for longer time, he suffers Hypoxia, which result in lack of oxygen to the brain causing dizziness, confusion, poor judgment and loss of consciousness.
4 - Only on hour of flight costs 66 thousand dollars.
5 - Now this has to be its worst defect, only one hour of flight needs atleast 30 hours of maintenance. Now this greatly reduces its lethality. And its parts are super expensive, this plane is nightmare to maintain.
6 - It can only take 4 missiles.
There are even more defects but the point here is F-22 is just useless when you look at this. They will also replace all F-22 with F-35 when it comes to service after 2018. All i am saying is U.S is falling behind in many ways now. These are just air crafts.Even the F-35 is now receiving criticism and a lot of basic structural defects are already being pointed, but still its in development and saying anything right now will be inappropriate.

1. India's Su-30MKI are very diffrent from vietnamese Su-30's both in terms of skill and quality and as everyone knows better than basic chinese Su-30 MKK .

2.All the defects you mentioned with F-22 are secondary ones like high maintenance and pilot comfort but that still doesnt change the fact that it is the best air superiority fighter in the world

3. F-35's are flawed but still better than j31. or j20 coz we dont know anything about them . they may be a made from stolen F-35 data or could be 4Gen. fighter with black paint.

4. If chinese fighter planes like J-10A or J-15, J-16 were anywhere as good enough as projected then why would china buy Su-35's.

 

[Echo_419]

We can earn a lot from trading with India every year. I hope peace.


You are so interested in war with China? Looks how excited you are. Gosh

Peace btw the 2 countries is the way to go
We need more economic growth to pull millions of people out of poverty here
Peace

 

[jhungary]

I am not showing any arrogance to anyone, nor am i laughing on U.S or what ever you are taking it. F-15 or 16 etc they do get updated from time to time. For instance, just recently in 2013 the USAF contracted for the Defensive Management System Modernization program to replace the antenna system and other electronics to increase the B-2's frequency awareness. And other planes are also updated with time.
But when you make a new fighter then its way more suitable to current time as compared to updated one. In a lot of aspects. And what i am trying to say here is that U.S is currently only testing F-35, while on other hand Russia is testing Mig-35, Su-35 and Pak-FA, and china is testing J-10B, J-16,J-15, J-20 and J-31. And its the same story in other fields of military.
My whole point is China is advancing much more rapidly then any country. You can call this arrogance or what ever you want to call it. You might disagree, doesn't mean its arrogance or something.

lol, that's where you were wrong.

Technology advance does not equate to how many type of fighter aircraft you induce over a period of time. It's not like since you bring out the J,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and you are seen as more advance or catching up to the country that only bring out the F-35.

The fact is, only what replace what is counted.

In military Aviation, you have several different tyupe of fighter aircraft. And you have to look at what they are replaced with original to see the different. The catagory is as follow

Air Superiority Fighter
Multi-role Fighter
Ground Support Fighter
Naval Fighter

If you have to compare what replace with what, you can only compare between what and what

for China

Air Superiority Fighter - SU-27/J-11 -> J-20 (IP - 2018)
Multi-role Fighter - J-10 .> J-10B
Ground Support Fighter - Q-5 -> J-16
Naval Aviation - Nil -> J-15

for USA

Air Superiority Fighter - F-15C/F-22 -> F-XX (6th Gen) (IP- 2030)
Multi-role Fighter - F-16 -> F-35A
Ground Support Fighter - A-10A -> F-15E/SE
Naval Aviation - F-18E/F -> F-35C
VTOL fighter - AV-8B -> F-35B

The fact is, US only have the one type of fighter coming out to replace them all does not mean they are anything behind or rolling backward. Infact this is where fighter aircraft should go. 40 years ago, we have the same stuff as in China doing now, we have F-4,F-14, F-15,F-16, F-18 using in tri-service (Air Foprce-Navy-Marine) but after 2014, we will only have 2 service fighter aircraft F-22/F-35 plus supporting F-15E/SE. This is infact the best thing American can do, as they simplified to a single or duo fighter, it simply logistic and maintanence facilities, now we order one replacement parts instead of 4, yet that one part can goes to 3 different aircraft that perform different function.

If Chinese are smart, they will do what the US do and trying to dedicate into a single or duo fighter, hence i don't consider building a single fighter have any technological lacking.

And you seems to underestimate the US fighter Tech a lot, we are currently the only one fielded 5th Gen Aircraft, and we are currently the only one out there building a 6th Gen Phototype, to be complete in 2025. By 2025, China would still be half way over their 5th Gen fielding. but we are already doing the total 5th Gen fielding now, infact, it had already started for 7 years now. We are already getting pass 100th mark

100th Jet In Final Production; First F-35 Bound For Luke · Lockheed Martin

while the Chinese have 3 or 4 J-20 in flight testing and 1 or 2 J-31 for flight testing.