India fails to supply wheat to Afghanistan

[VkdIndian]

You should take lessons from Pakistan, you fools, none of that happens in Pakistan. Since independence Pakistan has only had barely a few riots, India has had tens of thousands, you shameless fools.

Itna gussa?

I accept that Pakistan is most pious and pure nation in this part of the world and India is opposite.

Just don’t be this angry.

 

[peagle]

Itna gussa?

I accept that Pakistan is most pious and pure nation in this part of the world and India is opposite.

Just don’t be this angry.

Ghusa?
How did you sense that, are you feeling OK?

I mentioned mere facts, they seem to escape almost all Indians. Because you guys are stuck in your hate filled fantasy towards Muslims, Islam and especially Pakistan.
You guys keep repeating lies created in that echo chamber called India. The number of lies I've been told by Indians are just astounding, it surprises me how repetitive they are, and what kind of mind-set creates those lies.

Pakistan has hosted the largest official refugee population in the world for 3 decades, till Turkiye took in more from Syria. Unofficial numbers are much higher.

Pakistan does not have a history of communal riots, that's a fact, nor does Pakistan have a history of minority persecution, baring occasional incidents.
These are facts.
I'm surprise that you are so touchy that you felt compelled to label facts as ghusa.

If you wish to discuss, then please, by all means, let's go.
But based on reason, facts and comparative analysis, not fantasies.

 

[VkdIndian]

Ghusa?
How did you sense that, are you feeling OK?

Every second word you used was a cuss word.
Generally that is what is done when someone is very angry.

But based on reason, facts and comparative analysis, not fantasies.

Colours of reason, facts etc can vary based on many factors that include your nationality, religion, upbringing and few other factors. Now we are talking India and Pakistan here.

Your last two posts try to indicate that India is a failed state and you quoted few aspects to prove it.
You are right that we have had communal violence right since independence and that too when congress was in power. Casteism is a cancer too that has afflicted us.

What about Pakistan? After independence Pakistan had all the opportunities to do better than India. Religious homogeneity was one important factor that could have been used nicely. You couldn’t properly treat your Muslim brothers from East Pakistan.
Has it been able to achieve any of the goals that it should have by now?

India may not be at the top of the world but has become better in a lot of parameters. Sadly, it is still far from where it should be. It is work in progress.

Had Pakistan attacked India in 1962, it would have done this and that is a conjecture. Claiming these kind of things in hindsight has no value.

Your assessment that India is going to break up is nothing but a fanciful flight. India has seen insurgences in NE, Gorkhaland, militancy in Punjab and Kashmir and Maoism issues right since 1947. We know that few of them have vanished. Others will take their course for all to see. India has enough wherewithal to ensure that no group is able to divide India the way you have prophesied.

Your summary that India is a failed state appears a little too aggressive. Your abusive language indicates a desperation to drive home your POV.

You can go a little easy.

 

[ARMalik]

Can someone change the Thread Title to:

" Terrorist Indian Government Officials Fail to Supply Wheat aka Weapons to Murder Civilians In Afghanistan"

 

[jk007]

Every second word you used was a cuss word.
Generally that is what is done when someone is very angry.


Colours of reason, facts etc can vary based on many factors that include your nationality, religion, upbringing and few other factors. Now we are talking India and Pakistan here.

Your last two posts try to indicate that India is a failed state and you quoted few aspects to prove it.
You are right that we have had communal violence right since independence and that too when congress was in power. Casteism is a cancer too that has afflicted us.

What about Pakistan? After independence Pakistan had all the opportunities to do better than India. Religious homogeneity was one important factor that could have been used nicely. You couldn’t properly treat your Muslim brothers from East Pakistan.
Has it been able to achieve any of the goals that it should have by now?
Look where it is now.

India may not be at the top of the world but has become better in a lot of parameters. Sadly, it is still far from where it should be. It is work in progress.

Had Pakistan attacked India in 1962, it would have done this and that is a conjecture. Claiming these kind of things in hindsight has no value.

Your assessment that India is going to break up is nothing but a fanciful flight. India has seen insurgences in NE, Gorkhaland, militancy in Punjab and Kashmir and Maoism issues right since 1947. We know that few of them have vanished. Others will take their course for all to see. India has enough wherewithal to ensure that no group is able to divide India the way you have prophesied.

Your summary that India is a failed state appears a little too aggressive. Your abusive language indicates a desperation to drive home your POV.

You can go a little easy.

Please ask him simple questions. He appears so self-righteous.
A) what is the % of minorities in pak in 1947 vs now.
B) what is the % of minorities in India in 1947 vs now.

Amazing, what kind of wrong thoughts indiaphobia & hinduphobia (that liberal media love to propagate) can produce.

 

[peagle]

I would like to start with an apology because I usually do not like multiple quotes, because I think they unnecessarily elongate a discussion, but you have raised so many different separated points so it might be easier for sake of clarity.
Also, I get sense of reasonableness from you so, I wish to show respect to you by providing an accurate reply. I've met few other reasonable Indians on this forum, good to know there are more out there.

Every second word you used was a cuss word.
Generally that is what is done when someone is very angry.

OK so if Indians do it, then it is fine, right?

And for the record a cuss word is far strong then idiot, stupid or fool. If a person is deliberately trying to spread lies and deliberately being obtuse, then that state of being has a meaning. Idiot, fool and stupid are meaningful terms to describe that person, and only used when they truly apply.

Cuss words are very much real and very much recognisable, those are not cuss words, but describing a person who has deliberately chosen to forgo all sense of decency by actively and repeatedly trying to spread lies, hate and false information.

I use the above to differentiate those trying to have a reasoned argument or discussion from those with ill intent, because we can disagree and still have reasoned discussion. But when someone is obviously trying to spread lies, then I'm sorry but to me that is far worse then any so called cuss word.

Lies and spreading false information, especially repetitively like a troll is simply not acceptable, and a far far worse thing.
A person cannot, and should not be allowed to get away with it, no matter what.

Colours of reason, facts etc can vary based on many factors that include your nationality, religion, upbringing and few other factors. Now we are talking India and Pakistan here.

Facts are facts, they do not change with any external factors, the interpretation of facts can change due to other factors, but not the fact itself, facts always remain the same, that is why it is a fact. They only change if the available information on which they are based changes.
In discussing a interpretation there is a general understanding of what is reasonable, and that has to be applied, when someone is being deliberately unreasonable and malicious in their approach, that should not be acceptable, by any measure.
So no, facts do not depend on external factors, such as race and religion.

Your last two posts try to indicate that India is a failed state and you quoted few aspects to prove it.
You are right that we have had communal violence right since independence and that too when congress was in power. Casteism is a cancer too that has afflicted us.

Please understand, that discussion is based on who you are discussing with, the nature, the tone and extent of a discussion is also dependant on the other party. Most Indians here present simplistic hate filled arguments and they get repeated in a boring manner, and there is constant attempt to troll by bringing in every subject under the sun in what should be a concentrated discussion.
It is unfair of you to concentrate on my discussion, and ignore his.

I did not believe that India is a failed state, I can highlight points that do provide credence to that argument, but I do not believe it. If an Indian comes attacking then they will hear those points.
I am sick of the boring hate filled points about Pakistan that are simply not true, and total disregard for the truth and the widespread effort to spread lies. that simple is not acceptable

What about Pakistan? After independence Pakistan had all the opportunities to do better than India. Religious homogeneity was one important factor that could have been used nicely. Has it been able to achieve it?
Look where it is now.

I'm sorry but you completely misunderstand history, and it shows.
Pakistan had nothing after independence, whereas India was a top 10 economy even in 1947. The opportunities all belonged to India, not Pakistan.

Pakistan had zero medium or heavy industry, baring few light industrial units. Pakistan only had half a University in the whole country, just half. It had no state apparatus to operate a nation, a country. The only country in the world with two halves split by a thousand miles, in the middle an active enemy state, with which there was a year long war right after independence. Those are issue that cannot be ignored.

So, no, Pakistan did not have any advantages, but they have done far better then people recognise, that's another discussion. Pakistan overtook India in about a decade, and up till the 1980s Pakistan was doing better then other South Asian states.
To not recognise that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and all its aftermath had massive negative effect on Pakistan is to be dishonest with the truth. Even now, Pakistan is doing great. I am happy to discuss, but that discussion cannot be based on an assumed bubble, you have to recognise the realities on the ground and the active factors in play.

India may not be at the top of the world but has become better in a lot of parameters. Sadly, it is still far from where it should be. It is work in progress.

The fact is India was at the top of the world, India has been a top 10 economy, or near constantly since independence.
It has received massive amounts of aid from all over the world. The largest aid recipient from just America is India, far more then was given to Pakistan, that's official figures. But, people only remember and point at Pakistan. that's not right.
But, under normal circumstances it doesn't bother me, I hope you guys do well, but in a different argument, I know what needs to be highlighted and pointed out. That depends on the nature of the argument.

Had Pakistan attacked India in 1962, it would have done this and that is a conjecture. Claiming these kind of things in hindsight has no value.

It does have value, because based on available set of facts, the conclusions are obvious. India was losing badly, and China was pushing Pakistan to attack and if Pakistan had attacked, it would have achieved the same results India achieved in 1971. The conclusion is very obvious.
If the Americans and the British had not come to help India in so many ways, The LAC also would be a lot different.

Your assessment that India is going to break up is nothing but a fanciful flight. India has seen insurgences in NE, Gorkhaland, militancy in Punjab and Kashmir and Maoism issues right since 1947. We know that few of them have vanished. Others will take their course for all to see. India has enough wherewithal to ensure that no group is able to divide India the way you have prophesied.

I do not think India is going to break up, again this point depends on the nature of the discussion. India can be broken up, if proper efforts are made, there are far too many fault lines, far too many. And, if western powers stay out, it is not too difficult. The west has saved India in 1962, and pressured Pakistan in the 1990's, given India so much aid, and supplied India heavy water for its nuclear power plants right after its illegal 1974 nuclear explosion. Help that keeps getting ignored.
India is easy to break up, but I do not think it will, neither do I want it to break up. And in my view neither Pakistan, nor China wants such a result.

You summary that India is a failed state appears a little too aggressive. Your abusive language indicates a desperation to drive home your POV.

I wouldn't call it aggressive exactly, forthright and very direct, yes, because it was called for.
My language was not abusive, it merely continued the nature of the discussion, calling out liars and hate mongers isn't aggression.
When you rely on facts, there is no need for desperation, I backed my arguments with facts, but for some people those facts need to be hammered in, that isn't aggression but an appropriate answer.

 

[SIPRA]

I would like to start with an apology because I usually do not like multiple quotes, because I think they unnecessarily elongate a discussion, but you have raised so many different separated points so it might be easier for sake of clarity.
Also, I get sense of reasonableness from you so, I wish to show respect to you by providing an accurate reply. I've met few other reasonable Indians on this forum, good to know there are more out there.


OK so if Indians do it, then it is fine, right?

And for the record a cuss word is far strong then idiot, stupid or fool. If a person is deliberately trying to spread lies and deliberately being obtuse, then that state of being has a meaning. Idiot, fool and stupid are meaningful terms to describe that person, and only used when they truly apply.

Cuss words are very much real and very much recognisable, those are not cuss words, but describing a person who has deliberately chosen to forgo all sense of decency by actively and repeatedly trying to spread lies, hate and false information.

I use the above to differentiate those trying to have a reasoned argument or discussion from those with ill intent, because we can disagree and still have reasoned discussion. But when someone is obviously trying to spread lies, then I'm sorry but to me that is far worse then any so called cuss word.

Lies and spreading false information, especially repetitively like a troll is simply not acceptable, and a far far worse thing.
A person cannot, and should not be allowed to get away with it, no matter what.




Facts are facts, they do not change with any external factors, the interpretation of facts can change due to other factors, but not the fact itself, facts always remain the same, that is why it is a fact. They only change if the available information on which they are based changes.
In discussing a interpretation there is a general understanding of what is reasonable, and that has to be applied, when someone is being deliberately unreasonable and malicious in their approach, that should not be acceptable, by any measure.
So no, facts do not depend on external factors, such as race and religion.



Please understand, that discussion is based on who you are discussing with, the nature, the tone and extent of a discussion is also dependant on the other party. Most Indians here present simplistic hate filled arguments and they get repeated in a boring manner, and there is constant attempt to troll by bringing in every subject under the sun in what should be a concentrated discussion.
It is unfair of you to concentrate on my discussion, and ignore his.

I did not believe that India is a failed state, I can highlight points that do provide credence to that argument, but I do not believe it. If an Indian comes attacking then they will hear those points.
I am sick of the boring hate filled points about Pakistan that are simply not true, and total disregard for the truth and the widespread effort to spread lies. that simple is not acceptable



I'm sorry but you completely misunderstand history, and it shows.
Pakistan had nothing after independence, whereas India was a top 10 economy even in 1947. The opportunities all belonged to India, not Pakistan.

Pakistan had zero medium or heavy industry, baring few light industrial units. Pakistan only had half a University in the whole country, just half. It had no state apparatus to operate a nation, a country. The only country in the world with two halves split by a thousand miles, in the middle an active enemy state, with which there was a year long war right after independence. Those are issue that cannot be ignored.

So, no, Pakistan did not have any advantages, but they have done far better then people recognise, that's another discussion. Pakistan overtook India in about a decade, and up till the 1980s Pakistan was doing better then other South Asian states.
To not recognise that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and all its aftermath had massive negative effect on Pakistan is to be dishonest with the truth. Even now, Pakistan is doing great. I am happy to discuss, but that discussion cannot be based on an assumed bubble, you have to recognise the realities on the ground and the active factors in play.


The fact is India was at the top of the world, India has been a top 10 economy, or near constantly since independence.
It has received massive amounts of aid from all over the world. The largest aid recipient from just America is India, far more then was given to Pakistan, that's official figures. But, people only remember and point at Pakistan. that's not right.
But, under normal circumstances it doesn't bother me, I hope you guys do well, but in a different argument, I know what needs to be highlighted and pointed out. That depends on the nature of the argument.


It does have value, because based on available set of facts, the conclusions are obvious. India was losing badly, and China was pushing Pakistan to attack and if Pakistan had attacked, it would have achieved the same results India achieved in 1971. The conclusion is very obvious.
If the Americans and the British had not come to help India in so many ways, The LAC also would be a lot different.


I do not think India is going to break up, again this point depends on the nature of the discussion. India can be broken up, if proper efforts are made, there are far too many fault lines, far too many. And, if western powers stay out, it is not too difficult. The west has saved India in 1962, and pressured Pakistan in the 1990's, given India so much aid, and supplied India heavy water for its nuclear power plants right after its illegal 1974 nuclear explosion. Help that keeps getting ignored.
India is easy to break up, but I do not think it will, neither do I want it to break up. And in my view neither Pakistan, nor China wants such a result.



I wouldn't call it aggressive exactly, forthright and very direct, yes, because it was called for.
My language was not abusive, it merely continued the nature of the discussion, calling out liars and hate mongers isn't aggression.
When you rely on facts, there is no need for desperation, I backed my arguments with facts, but for some people those facts need to be hammered in, that isn't aggression but an appropriate answer.

Excellent post

 

[VkdIndian]

OK so if Indians do it, then it is fine, right?

Nope. It is not.

So no, facts do not depend on external factors, such as race and religion.

Agreed. But, facts can be distorted by narratives dished out to a certain society. They can be controlled by a state. Good examples are China and North Korea.
Same goes for all the countries to varied degrees. In Pakistan the Establishment controls a lot of information. And these become facts over time.

India is easy to break up

I disagree with this assessment. Ifs and buts don’t have any meaning in this assessment.

but I do not think it will, neither do I want it to break up. And in my view neither Pakistan, nor China wants such a result.

That’s good to hear.

When you rely on facts, there is no need for desperation, I backed my arguments with facts, but for some people those facts need to be hammered in, that isn't aggression but an appropriate answer.

Your own assessment of your own post. I would still feel that it was too aggressive.

Please ask him simple questions. He appears so self-righteous.
A) what is the % of minorities in pak in 1947 vs now.
B) what is the % of minorities in India in 1947 vs now.

A very valid question and an indicator of a society. I hope this link would satisfy your query. It gives data on Muslims considered to be most oppressed by FMs on PDF.

 

[Hiptullha]

Please ask him simple questions. He appears so self-righteous.
A) what is the % of minorities in pak in 1947 vs now.
B) what is the % of minorities in India in 1947 vs now.

Amazing, what kind of wrong thoughts indiaphobia & hinduphobia (that liberal media love to propagate) can produce.

Let me ask you a simple question since you appear to be educated on Pakistani demographics.
A) What is % of minorities in West Pak I 1947 vs now?
Now don't cheat and ask your kala nanga Yogi-Swami-Guru pracharak baap on Whatsapp for the answer to this! I'm sure you know it since you're so smart!

 

[SIPRA]

Please ask him simple questions. He appears so self-righteous.
A) what is the % of minorities in pak in 1947 vs now.
B) what is the % of minorities in India in 1947 vs now.

This is a loaded question, when you talk of percentages. Better gauge it in numbers and quantum. The fact of the matter is that mass-scale genocide, rapes, abductions and forced displacements, in 1947, were regional in nature, and were reciprocal and retributive, both in quantum and intensity. For example, by the end of 1947, no Hindu or Sikh was left in Pakistani Punjab; but equally, no Muslim was left in Indian Punjab.

Overall forced displacements and killings are estimated to be about 15 Million and 1 Million, respectively, equally distributed on either side of the border.

So, don't portray yourself on a higher moral pedestal. These crimes were committed from both sides in equal measure. Here "equal measure" implies quantum, not percentages, on a national scale.

 

[Hiptullha]

Same goes for all the countries to varied degrees. In Pakistan the Establishment controls a lot of information. And these become facts over time.

Dude you Hindus thought Karachi was in a state of civil war last year LMAO don't talk to us about disinformation.

 

[VkdIndian]

Dude you Hindus thought Karachi was in a state of civil war last year LMAO don't talk to us about disinformation.

Read your post again.
As per you all Hindus are bad. That’s why you said “HINDUS thought” as if all Hindus follow a certain narrative.
If you don’t see anything wrong then I know that your establishment has done a good job in telling you what to believe.

Secondly, this thread is about “Wheat supply from India to Afghanistan”.
Let’s keep the focus and discuss that and not derail this. I also played my part in it.
But no more.

 

[SIPRA]

Secondly, this thread is about “Wheat supply from India to Afghanistan”.
Let’s keep the focus and discuss that and not derail this. I also played my part in it.
But no more.

"Issi tarha baat say baat nikalti hae."

 

[Hiptullha]

As per you all Hindus are bad. That’s why you said “HINDUS thought” as if all Hindus follow a certain narrative.

Were did I say all Hindus are bad?? You're trying so hard to be a victim. Is India not Hindu majority? Do they not consume the bulk of media produced by Hindu fake news outlets? It's perfectly logical and reasonable to assume that enough of them become propagandized to make a generalized statement.

Note that I NEVER said they are evil, just like (I hope) you are not saying Chinese or North Koreans are evil when you claim their state brainwashed them.

See how refreshing it is when you think logically instead of doing this low IQ wailing and finger pointing? Suddenly not everyone is an evil bigot out to get you! Hope you understand.

 

[VkdIndian]

Were did I say all Hindus are bad

Please write what you mean and mean what you write.

Dude you Hindus thought Karachi was in a state of civil war last year LMAO don't talk to us about disinformation.

You should have said “some Indians thought Karachi…………..”. If you didn’t mean all Hindus are bad then I accept your explanation and request you to be a little careful with words.

Chinese or North Koreans are evil when you claim their state brainwashed them.

Read what is written and not between the lines.
I said “China and North Korea is a good example where state controls the narrative”. Did I say they are bad people?

@SIPRA you are right. Baat nikalte nikalte nikal hi jaati hai.
I would resist from derailing this now. Promise.