India eyes Israel's Iron Dome to counter Pak, puppets

[gambit]

Not tactics , but just increase the production and deployment of Norinco A100 and KRL-21 ( which are produced in Pakistan at the moment ) ...

The US have about a 90-days stockpile of war munitions. That is the estimated duration of on hand munitions readied for deployment. Then manufacturing ramps during that 90 days to support war expenditures and continues once the war ended to replenish that 90-days stockpile.

It is actually costlier for the attacker than the defense even if some defensive measures are more expensive than some offensive capabilities the attacker can bring because the objective of the attacker is to conquer, which requires the attacker to numerically overwhelm the defense in some areas, asymmetric tactics in some, avoidance of some, or combinations of both. But no matter what, there has to be sufficient reserves for when numerical superiority calls for it.

That 90-days figure is well studied and has ample historical support...

Chemical Warfare Service in the Southwest Pacific During World War II

Chemical Warfare Service in the Southwest Pacific During World War II

by Dr. Burton Wright III

Some relief, but not enough, occurred when the Army established a general depot for materials left behind by Army divisions passing through Australia on their way to the front. Although the stockpiles obtained from these units seemed more than adequate at first, planners in the United States were developing a logistics strategy to ensure that adequate supplies would reach every corner of the far Pacific. This high-level planning culminated in February 1942 with a document on an overall supply system for Australia. It called for stockpiling 90 days' worth of supplies of all classes, to include ground ammunition.

Quartermaster Activities in World War I - extracted from America's Munitions 1917-1918

The overseas forces were the particular concern of the Subsistence Division. It was planned to have approximately three months' advance supply of food sent over each month for the number of troops actually sent to France during that month. This was called the initial supply. In addition to this, there was sent over a monthly automatic supply, equivalent to the amount of food the troops already in France would consume during that month. In this way a 90 days' reserve was usually maintained overseas.

Ninety days in successful defense will start to have decreased morale in the offense. It essentially deteriorated into a siege and no one likes sieges, least of all the siege creator. For the defense, that 90-days figure is important because there might be openings where that stockpile may be enough to take the offense and win the war.

Since the Iron Dome or ID-like system is essentially a defensive method, the wielder can successfully intercept only %50 of incoming rockets or artillery shells in order to have deleterious effects on the goal of victory by the other side.

 

[Secur]

Since the Iron Dome or ID-like system is essentially a defensive method, the wielder can successfully intercept only %50 of incoming rockets or artillery shells in order to have deleterious effects on the goal of victory by the other side.

War in this part of this world between these two countries wont even last two weeks , let alone 90 days my friend and to fight for that period , Pakistan maintains enough reserves for about 34 days and it doesn't plan to invade - but rather just defend its homeland so the defense like you yourself say is easier for us ... There's no one here saying Iron Dome isn't a good system , it just isn't made for the threats that IA will be facing on its borders fighting with proper armies and not insurgents ... I have told people here before that " What is your definition of " protected zone " and most important how " large " can that be ? The increase in the area of the protected zone will increase the probability of more artillery making its way into it , hence increasing the credible threats and making it extremely difficult for the system to detect , identify and engage every one of them with astronomically high cost about $ 90,000 per missile and $ 50,000 per battery , it will be quickly overwhelmed since PA can always field more artillery at a relatively very low cost than the IA can field ID systems ... The theatre level warfare isn't the same what Israel faces with Iron Dome ...

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Israel Could help Modify Iron Dome for India specific role...Without modification, It wouldn't serve Indian purpose...India could even fund that project.

 

[Trisonics]

I told you about that ... You aren't facing Hamas which fires a few rockets with a delay of hours or days ...

The assumption is being made by you since you have narrowed the scope by ignoring everything else. You forget in all your posts that India will go all out on its offensive, which means Iron dome is not the only thing you will need to concentrate on. The strategy you seem to advocate about trying to overwhelm the system is flawed since you never consider the Indian offense. I can understand the fixation and even the strategy to an extent since we saw similar methods employed with kargil where the fixation was on the idea while the procedures involved, in particular the counter measures for the Indian offense was not considered.

 

[Storm Force]

I doubt Pakistan has enought rations/reserves/ ammo to FIGHT A 34 DAY WAR.

This is country with a TINY DEFENSE BUDGET of some $6 billion per year.

The country came to its knees after earthquakes in a small part of northern KASHMIR and the entire PAK army airfirce navy could muster a measly 50 helicopters to aid the hundreds of thousands civillians.

Gop was asking for aid worldwide.

NOW IMAGINE THE UTTER CAOS THE 4TH LARGEST MILITARY POWER WOULD INFLICT ON PAKISTAN a nation spending $40 billion per year with more resrves of cash gold than pakistan could generate inn a decade ...

GET REAL PEOPLE look at the state of pakistan today

 

[acid rain]

I doubt Pakistan has enought rations/reserves/ ammo to FIGHT A 34 DAY WAR.

This is country with a TINY DEFENSE BUDGET of some $6 billion per year.

The country came to its knees after earthquakes in a small part of northern KASHMIR and the entire PAK army airfirce navy could muster a measly 50 helicopters to aid the hundreds of thousands civillians.

Gop was asking for aid worldwide.

NOW IMAGINE THE UTTER CAOS THE 4TH LARGEST MILITARY POWER WOULD INFLICT ON PAKISTAN a nation spending $40 billion per year with more resrves of cash gold than pakistan could generate inn a decade ...

GET REAL PEOPLE look at the state of pakistan today

If Saudi / Iran give free oil, and China free weapons and ammunition's than they may be able to drag it for a few more days.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

If Saudi / Iran give free oil, and China free weapons and ammunition's than they may be able to drag it for a few more days.

From where it will reach PAK?

 

[acid rain]

From where it will reach PAK?

?? they have a border with both countries, plus oil can reach by sea provided it's not blockaded.

 

[Storm Force]

Each time PAK HAS FOUGHT INDIA other than china or USA no one has come to aid them during war.

VERY FEW COUNTRIES in this world wil side with pakistan OVER india and that includes saudi and iran.

 

[gambit]

War in this part of this world between these two countries wont even last two weeks , let alone 90 days my friend and to fight for that period , Pakistan maintains enough reserves for about 34 days and it doesn't plan to invade - but rather just defend its homeland so the defense like you yourself say is easier for us ... There's no one here saying Iron Dome isn't a good system , it just isn't made for the threats that IA will be facing on its borders fighting with proper armies and not insurgents ... I have told people here before that " What is your definition of " protected zone " and most important how " large " can that be ? The increase in the area of the protected zone will increase the probability of more artillery making its way into it , hence increasing the credible threats and making it extremely difficult for the system to detect , identify and engage every one of them with astronomically high cost about $ 90,000 per missile and $ 50,000 per battery , it will be quickly overwhelmed since PA can always field more artillery at a relatively very low cost than the IA can field ID systems ... The theatre level warfare isn't the same what Israel faces with Iron Dome ...

In order to win a war, you must have theater level victories. There are no technical barriers for the Indians to adopt and adapt the Iron Dome system to suit Indian needs. We already have one Pakistani foolish enough to tread into the technical waters and drowned. A 'protected zone' does not mean the area must not suffer damages and/or casualties. It means that despite damages and casualties, said zone and whatever resides within can still contribute to the war effort.

But here is the problem for your argument: Precisely because artillery and rockets (not missiles) are inaccurate and imprecise, whatever is a so called 'protected zone' can be absurdly large to hide a few important mobile items, forcing the artillery and rocket barrage to be wide area, which increases logistical stresses on the attacker.

The above is an example of a 'runway denial' operation by bombs and rockets. The entire base is one such 'protected zone' and for the sake is simplicity, we can assume the runway system to be worthy of focused defense. And even when the runway system is damaged, only a portion of it is necessary to launch a counter attack.

In contrast...

The above is what an accurate and precise attack can and will produce: Complete paralysis, no matter duration, of enemy air operation.

An ID-like system need to intercept only the few inaccurate and imprecise rockets and/or artillery shells that are deemed credible threats -- by chance -- to the ability to launch aircrafts. The attacker will know his rockets and artillery are not producing the desired goal because he will be on the receiving end of counter-air. He will either continue to try to disable the airfield's runway system, or cease because of perceived futility.

Accurate and precise attacks produced the effects of mass without having to mass. That mass is from inaccurate and imprecise weapons. That mean the defense's stockpile of ID-like interceptor can outlast the attacker's stockpile of inaccurate and imprecise rockets and artillery.

 

[Secur]

In order to win a war, you must have theater level victories. There are no technical barriers for the Indians to adopt and adapt the Iron Dome system to suit Indian needs. We already have one Pakistani foolish enough to tread into the technical waters and drowned. A 'protected zone' does not mean the area must not suffer damages and/or casualties. It means that despite damages and casualties, said zone and whatever resides within can still contribute to the war effort.

But here is the problem for your argument: Precisely because artillery and rockets (not missiles) are inaccurate and imprecise, whatever is a so called 'protected zone' can be absurdly large to hide a few important mobile items, forcing the artillery and rocket barrage to be wide area, which increases logistical stresses on the attacker.

An ID-like system need to intercept only the few inaccurate and imprecise rockets and/or artillery shells that are deemed credible threats -- by chance -- to the ability to launch aircrafts. The attacker will know his rockets and artillery are not producing the desired goal because he will be on the receiving end of counter-air.

True , but the question what I must ask now is why are you assuming Pakistan at the receiving end always from your very first post in the thread ? Even I haven't done that and compared both sides equally ... There are no technical barriers for Pakistanis either to increase the production of MBRL's and artilleries , overwhelm the system and if that isn't accomplished make the enemy pay an astronomical 90k per each missile to defend the " protected zone " against " credible threats " with low cost simple rockets and shells , because they are still 10x cheaper than what Iron Dome can ever be ! - leave the ID's slow reaction time ( criticized in Israel ) and ability to detect , identify and engage hundreds of credible threats which are a reality in India-Pakistan scenario ! What reply did I receive from the Indians or you for when I asked the definition of their " protected zone " ? Nothing ! They simply do not have an idea of what the system is used for and how different that scenario is from ours ... From " saving each and every troop " to " engaging every threat " - I had a heartily laugh

How will the " protected zone " be really left to contribute to war effort ? The larger it is , the more probability of incoming gaining access to it , true ? Now again , what are those few " important mobile items " and are they using plasma stealth so they cant be seen or detected by the systems we have ? Our artillery and tanks are sufficient for now - PA's not what you suppose it to be ...

Very inaccurate and imprecise , but yet low cost and easy to mass produce ... Quick to be fired and thus the increased probability to hit the target - being used by a proper army ... I take it those assumed targets aren't nano size , right ?

Again , the ID like system wont be facing a " few " ( and I cant stress on this enough ) rockets or shells like in the Gaza scenario - you are fighting a war with the 7th largest army in the world which is optimized for network-centric warfare ...

 

[Secur]

NOW IMAGINE THE UTTER CAOS THE 4TH LARGEST MILITARY POWER WOULD INFLICT ON PAKISTAN a nation spending $40 billion per year with more resrves of cash gold than pakistan could generate inn a decade ...

GET REAL PEOPLE look at the state of pakistan today

Honestly , I would written a lovely answer for your delusions of the " utter chaos " and shattered your myths of invincibility but it will only serve to derail the thread - something which I am never interested so better talk on topic ...

Still better in many areas than you country - do not ask me which ! Those topics are banned , right ?

 

[Storm Force]

Secur

Indians dont have daily bombing, kidnappng, terror attacks on any given day.

They dont have their generals and politicians stealing your grant aid

mr 10% your words etc.

 

[Secur]

mr 10% your words etc.

Still nothing on the topic ? ... Would you mind if I click the " report " button now ? Nobody asked you the state of Pakistan in the first place ... That 90 days reserve was Gambit's argument which I am sure you didn't understand and I simply stated what our reserves are ... Did we need your random bull **** about how Pakistan reacted to a natural calamity or terror attacks ?

 

[The SiLent crY]

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