India did it all Eons Ago Cars, Stem Cell research & All that

[Kinetic]

why UK and US will have the a$$ burn????? Its out history after all???? So it is the problem that we reject history narrated by them???

 

[paritosh]

An example of where you are wrong in terms of weapons research is Damascus steel. Research it and you will know how Indian it is.

oh I know about Wootz steel and Damascus steel. The question is implementation again. We have a couple of inventions here and there but then thats it. Do you know that the traditional sword that was used by Indian armies was a heavy, chunky one called a "Khanda" which was held by both hands and caused us to lose a lot of battles? The "Talwar" is an imported concept too, lifted from the turks, who took the Roman swords and gave them a backwards curvature to add strength and increase the shearing area.

Every culture has different priorities. I have already listed out what we did achieve. I dont believe you actually perused the list.

yeah I did go through the list. What do you think was our priority?
How did we fare in that regard vis-a vis other cultures?

You are solely focusing on what we did not. And you are looking at those things from a western cultural paradigm. That is hardly something that can be debated about.

The sole reason that we were invaded a million times and never could project any power was because we failed on a million fronts. I do not think there can be a debate on that.

 

[paritosh]

This is one thing which makes me think ancient Indians were much more technologically advanced than us..

There a lot many ways to develop and deploy rust-free iron pillars now than there were in the time of antiquity.

The problem with ancient Indians is that instead of writing it down, all the knowledge was shared to students through vocal.. I am not sure about aeroplane or hydrogen bomb but there were things our ancestors did which we should be very proud of..

That obviously is very unscientific isn't it?
There obviously was no airplane nor a hydrogen bomb. Would they have men using nukes on one side and some other men in the same battle hacking each other with clubs and arrows fighting bare-foot? has that ever seemed strange to you?

 

[Star Wars]

oh I know about Wootz steel and Damascus steel. The question is implementation again. We have a couple of inventions here and there but then thats it. Do you know that the traditional sword that was used by Indian armies was a heavy, chunky one called a "Khanda" which was held by both hands and caused us to lose a lot of battles? The "Talwar" is an imported concept too, lifted from the turks, who took the Roman swords and gave them a backwards curvature to add strength and increase the shearing area.

The Design of Khanda was changed several times in the Mauryan Empire , not to mention the design was actually effective against armors of Islamic Invaders .

The sole reason that we were invaded a million times and never could project any power was because we failed on a million fronts. I do not think there can be a debate on that.

We failed militarily , thats about the only thing i can think about on the invasion part .

There obviously was no airplane nor a hydrogen bomb. Would they have men using nukes on one side and some other men in the same battle hacking each other with clubs and arrows fighting bare-foot? has that ever seemed strange to you?

Just because some retard talked about nukes doesn't mean you take that as a reason to dish at history.

There a lot many ways to develop and deploy rust-free iron pillars now than there were in the time of antiquity.

Soo ? , how does that make any difference ?

 

[livingdead]

@paritosh .. thanks for maintaining sanity here...

 

[Contrarian]

oh I know about Wootz steel and Damascus steel. The question is implementation again. We have a couple of inventions here and there but then thats it. Do you know that the traditional sword that was used by Indian armies was a heavy, chunky one called a "Khanda" which was held by both hands and caused us to lose a lot of battles? The "Talwar" is an imported concept too, lifted from the turks, who took the Roman swords and gave them a backwards curvature to add strength and increase the shearing area.


yeah I did go through the list. What do you think was our priority?
How did we fare in that regard vis-a vis other cultures?

The sole reason that we were invaded a million times and never could project any power was because we failed on a million fronts. I do not think there can be a debate on that.

There is a debate on that. The reason we were invaded frequently was because we had zero unity and our focus was never on territorial expansion beyond Bharat. Inward looking so to speak.

And that is exactly what I am saying. We were quite good in the ancient era, we as a civilization and as a culture entered a period of decadance and decline post that in the medieval age.That was when we were successfully invaded.. And it kept going downhill since then.

On the flip side, those who invaded us could never forge an identity strong enough to retain their empires and large kingdoms and fragmented into small countries whereas India with its various states agreed to join together to form one of the largest countries in the world.

And history always comes full circle, in the modern age, we have been gaining strength each passing decade vis-a-vis the rest of the world and certainly those that once colonized us - whether it be the Central Asians or the British.

@paritosh .. thanks for maintaining sanity here...

Where exactly did you find insanity in the first place?
Did any member even remotely suggest that we must keep looking to the past and not advance now? No. Each one of us knows that the key to our success and future is to ensure we are on the cutting edge of science and technology today - by building and funding universities and having a vibrant private and production enterprises.

It is only the presumptuous minds who believe that those who look to the past with a sense of pride will never look to the future as pragmatists.

 

[livingdead]

There is a debate on that. The reason we were invaded frequently was because we had zero unity and our focus was never on territorial expansion beyond Bharat. Inward looking so to speak.

And that is exactly what I am saying. We were quite good in the ancient era, we as a civilization and as a culture entered a period of decadance and decline post that in the medieval age.That was when we were successfully invaded.. And it kept going downhill since then.

On the flip side, those who invaded us could never forge an identity strong enough to retain their empires and large kingdoms and fragmented into small countries whereas India with its various states agreed to join together to form one of the largest countries in the world.

And history always comes full circle, in the modern age, we have been gaining strength each passing decade vis-a-vis the rest of the world and certainly those that once colonized us - whether it be the Central Asians or the British.


Where exactly did you find insanity in the first place?
Did any member even remotely suggest that we must keep looking to the past and not advance now? No. Each one of us knows that the key to our success and future is to ensure we are on the cutting edge of science and technology today - by building and funding universities and having a vibrant private and production enterprises.

It is only the presumptuous minds who believe that those who look to the past with a sense of pride will never look to the future as pragmatists.

Can you tell me why you believe 'ancient bharatiyas were far more advanced in science than we are today'? I saw your replies to @paritosh but could not find anything that supports your belief.

 

[Contrarian]

Can you tell me why you believe 'ancient bharatiyas were far more advanced in science than we are today'? I saw your replies to @paritosh but could not find anything that supports your belief.

It depends on what you believe, dont you. Is there any historical record of the time of Ram now?
Is there any historical record of any God or his/her avatars?

Secondly, when we talk of those ages, there are zero historical records which quantify exactly in the modern sense of what had or had not been accomplished compared to today.

Ergo, my point is that whether or not people believe that the ancient ages were or were not more advanced, it makes no difference whatsoever to what has to be done today to ensure the success of India.

It is only the presumptuous and narrow minded who choose to believe that any who believe in the scripture or texts are incapable of modern pragmatism. Which is why this thread serves as an example of a thought process of some kind of Indians.

Paritosh's point however was that India as a civilization did not achieve anything worthwhile. I disagree with that. I have given a link that gives a snapshot of those things. You are free to peruse that.
Now asking whether or why 'x' was not achieved is butting your head against a wall.

 

[livingdead]

It depends on what you believe, dont you. Is there any historical record of the time of Ram now?
Is there any historical record of any God or his/her avatars?

Secondly, when we talk of those ages, there are zero historical records which quantify exactly in the modern sense of what had or had not been accomplished compared to today.

Ergo, my point is that whether or not people believe that the ancient ages were or were not more advanced, it makes no difference whatsoever to what has to be done today to ensure the success of India.

It is only the presumptuous and narrow minded who choose to believe that any who believe in the scripture or texts are incapable of modern pragmatism. Which is why this thread serves as an example of a thought process of some kind of Indians.

Paritosh's point however was that India as a civilization did not achieve anything worthwhile. I disagree with that. I have given a link that gives a snapshot of those things. You are free to peruse that.
Now asking whether or why 'x' was not achieved is butting your head against a wall.

well its your belief, and I dont want to argue about belief. Its counterintutive to believe that people of antiquity had more scientific knowledge than us, because knowledge is built upon previous knowledge.
Unless it is revealed to them by alien or some supernatural entity I dont see how that is possible. Also I have rarely seen instances of book / scripture that describes something which is completely new knowledge to us.

The current scientific knowledge of Indians is accumulated knowledge of all the civilizations and its difficult to believe that people in those age had advanced communication technology / storage technology that would have helped in storing and disseminating knowledge.

 

[paritosh]

It depends on what you believe, dont you. Is there any historical record of the time of Ram now?
Is there any historical record of any God or his/her avatars?

Secondly, when we talk of those ages, there are zero historical records which quantify exactly in the modern sense of what had or had not been accomplished compared to today.

Ergo, my point is that whether or not people believe that the ancient ages were or were not more advanced, it makes no difference whatsoever to what has to be done today to ensure the success of India.

It is only the presumptuous and narrow minded who choose to believe that any who believe in the scripture or texts are incapable of modern pragmatism. Which is why this thread serves as an example of a thought process of some kind of Indians.

Paritosh's point however was that India as a civilization did not achieve anything worthwhile. I disagree with that. I have given a link that gives a snapshot of those things. You are free to peruse that.
Now asking whether or why 'x' was not achieved is butting your head against a wall.

Ok. I guess we are going in circles.
Let me break it down,
a) We are one of the oldest and mostly intact (relative to the world) civilization in the world
b) We have been one of the richest regions in the world (hence the invasions and plunder)
c) We have had a swelled-to-the-brim population for most part
d) We have had excellent river systems which were key to flourishing of a civilization
yet,
a) We never explored nor debated the existential politico-legal framework like the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans did
b) We never had great philosophers who published journals on human thought
c) We did not have a just social system, no serious attempt was never made (no record) to alter it
d) We did not have any historians of repute who logged history for us, Romans, Greeks and Persians always had historians and writers even in the armies
e) We never developed a successful irrigation system, till the mughals came. We did not even improve upon borrowed agricultural tools like a sickle or a bull's harness

The fact of the matter is, our true contribution to the world is spiritual in terms of schools of thoughts for discussing theology and god. An indicator of this is the number of successful religions that came out of India.
There were Deans and academicians in ancient Greece who taught subject that both you and I have read in school.
Nothing of that sort has been recorded in India.
We had Nalanda and Taxila where theology and Vedas were taught.
Yet people go gung-ho about the Achievements of ancient India.
IF There ever was a time when we had achieved something great, it would have shown. When we can dig-up diamonds and dino bones, a great culture is not that hard to find.
As far as Mahabharata is concerned, I like it as a good story and dont buy any of the gizmo-crazy stuff that is talked about in it.
I hope we are on the same page as far as crazy stuff written in our scriptures being deemed crazy is concerned.

well its your belief, and I dont want to argue about belief. Its counterintutive to believe that people of antiquity had more scientific knowledge than us, because knowledge is built upon previous knowledge.
Unless it is revealed to them by alien or some supernatural entity I dont see how that is possible. Also I have rarely seen instances of book / scripture that describes something which is completely new knowledge to us.

The current scientific knowledge of Indians is accumulated knowledge of all the civilizations and its difficult to believe that people in those age had advanced communication technology / storage technology that would have helped in storing and disseminating knowledge.

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. Science grows progressively mostly, unless some one comes up with a steam engine, every once in a while.
There is no evidence and being a scientific man myself, I dont belive any of it. I am sure neither would anybody else.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Right Wing Hindu Nationalist puts the record straight J - Hind
Indians must join RSS J - Hind
Mahabharata proves that Hindus performed Stem cell J - Hind
Cars originated in India 1000s of years ago J - Hind
Candles will be replaced with parsad on Birthdays. J - Hind
India will expand into Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Tibet J - Hind
and then Bhutan, Bangladesh & Afghanistan J - Hind

I did not find these in the book!

Ok. I guess we are going in circles.
Let me break it down,
a) We are one of the oldest and mostly intact (relative to the world) civilization in the world
b) We have been one of the richest regions in the world (hence the invasions and plunder)
c) We have had a swelled-to-the-brim population for most part
d) We have had excellent river systems which were key to flourishing of a civilization
yet,
a) We never explored nor debated the existential politico-legal framework like the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans did
b) We never had great philosophers who published journals on human thought
c) We did not have a just social system, no serious attempt was never made (no record) to alter it
d) We did not have any historians of repute who logged history for us, Romans, Greeks and Persians always had historians and writers even in the armies
e) We never developed a successful irrigation system, till the mughals came. We did not even improve upon borrowed agricultural tools like a sickle or a bull's harness

The fact of the matter is, our true contribution to the world is spiritual in terms of schools of thoughts for discussing theology and god. An indicator of this is the number of successful religions that came out of India.
There were Deans and academicians in ancient Greece who taught subject that both you and I have read in school.
Nothing of that sort has been recorded in India.
We had Nalanda and Taxila where theology and Vedas were taught.
Yet people go gung-ho about the Achievements of ancient India.
IF There ever was a time when we had achieved something great, it would have shown. When we can dig-up diamonds and dino bones, a great culture is not that hard to find.
As far as Mahabharata is concerned, I like it as a good story and dont buy any of the gizmo-crazy stuff that is talked about in it.
I hope we are on the same page as far as crazy stuff written in our scriptures being deemed crazy is concerned.



Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. Science grows progressively mostly, unless some one comes up with a steam engine, every once in a while.
There is no evidence and being a scientific man myself, I dont belive any of it. I am sure neither would anybody else.

Exactly. All this Hindu and India's past makes me cringe. Without Mughals we would never have had a country. But for the British we would never have had education.

Just take a look at the Taj Mahal or the Parliament building itself. The ugly mandirs and destroyed Nalanda are a pathetic sight in comparison.

All these Hindus want is to take us back to the savage days of the Mahabharata

Can you tell me why you believe 'ancient bharatiyas were far more advanced in science than we are today'? I saw your replies to @paritosh but could not find anything that supports your belief.

There were never anything called bharatiyas. There were Dravidians who were pushed back and butchered by Aryans who brought some semblance of civilization.

There is nothing to support anything, because Hindus/utvas are incapable of anything but chest thumping.

a) We never explored nor debated the existential politico-legal framework like the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans did
b) We never had great philosophers who published journals on human thought
c) We did not have a just social system, no serious attempt was never made (no record) to alter it
d) We did not have any historians of repute who logged history for us, Romans, Greeks and Persians always had historians and writers even in the armies
e) We never developed a successful irrigation system, till the mughals came. We did not even improve upon borrowed agricultural tools like a sickle or a bull's harness

True. We are just copy cats. Even our agricultural tools are borrowed. And guess what - we did not improve that either. Before the Mughals and other Sultanates came what were we? Vagabonds and cave dwellers living on forest produce alone.

And let not the Hindutvas bring their vast array of Shastras (on practically every discipline including Society, War, Culture and even Sex) which they claim to speak about a social system. In fact they were compiled entirely by Persians and Europeans and all we did was print an old date and claim it to be dated to 1000BC

Even Ashoka did not have a social system in place - the pillars with his edicts were a fiction planted by the British to build a pan Indian identity. We never had any ancient Indian scientists, philosophers, etc till perhaps al Biruni. But wait he was Persian. We did not even have a language until the Mughals invented Urdu. Before that what was here? Sign language that we claim to be Sanskrit. Oh wait, it is almost a dead language, being spoken in only two villages in India. Still the Fascist Hindus promote it as the ancient Indian language, while Pakistanis should have the sole legitmate claim on it.

Hindus

There is a debate on that. The reason we were invaded frequently was because we had zero unity and our focus was never on territorial expansion beyond Bharat. Inward looking so to speak.
And that is exactly what I am saying. We were quite good in the ancient era, we as a civilization and as a culture entered a period of decadance and decline post that in the medieval age.That was when we were successfully invaded.. And it kept going downhill since then.
On the flip side, those who invaded us could never forge an identity strong enough to retain their empires and large kingdoms and fragmented into small countries whereas India with its various states agreed to join together to form one of the largest countries in the world.
And history always comes full circle, in the modern age, we have been gaining strength each passing decade vis-a-vis the rest of the world and certainly those that once colonized us - whether it be the Central Asians or the British.
Where exactly did you find insanity in the first place?
Did any member even remotely suggest that we must keep looking to the past and not advance now? No. Each one of us knows that the key to our success and future is to ensure we are on the cutting edge of science and technology today - by building and funding universities and having a vibrant private and production enterprises.
It is only the presumptuous minds who believe that those who look to the past with a sense of pride will never look to the future as pragmatists.

You are a Hindu and hence biased. Come to light dear Fascist.

 

[Skull and Bones]

How gullible we are. Do we have a single piece of substantial evidence to support any of those scientific claims? It is like reading H.G Wells novels, and believing that time machine existed in the 1800s.

 

[Armstrong]

@SarthakGanguly - Are you telling me that you, @levina , @Ayush , @Indischer & @Ravi Nair were all driving Austen Martins from Delhi to Dhaka while I was trying to make my Donkey go another Kilometer by using everything from feeding him Strawberries to threatening to tell his Mrs. about him eyeing another Lady Donkey on the road ?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@SarthakGanguly - Are you telling me that you, @levina , @Ayush , @Indischer & @Ravi Nair were all driving Austen Martins from Delhi to Dhaka while I was trying to make my Donkey go another Kilometer by using everything from feeding him Strawberries to threatening to tell his Mrs. about him eyeing another Lady Donkey on the road ?

No. We were all driving raths perhaps And this includes you

...and @levina did not know how to drive Just like now.

 

[Armstrong]

No. We were all driving raths perhaps And this includes you

Yeh 'raths' kiyaa cheeez haii ?