India Developing, but still a long way to go

[walle990]

All developing countries need physical infrastructure. Better infrastructure is a major and necessary components of development. A child cannot grow without food, and a developing nation cannot develop without infrastructure. Therefore the topic is essential and very much relevant here.

Of course, you were referring to the 'soft' social infrastructure; but remember, having better physical infrastructure also helps building social capital. The two are intimately connected and if done right, form a virtuous, mutually reinforcing cycle.

Cheers!

Is building skyscrapers and high speed rails the key to alleviating abject poverty in the rural areas and reduce infant mortality? The whole notion was on how China manged to drastically improve their HDI without the fancy infrastructure it boast today on its eastern sea board is what India should aim for. India and China are on very different stages of development.

Majority of Indian miss the whole point of development, development is for the advancement of the people, its not a GDP figure or a growth percentage. Rather than showing off new apartment complexes how about showing something about improving the electricity distribution networks?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

living in the self deluding bubble will get India no where, there are very serious problems with your society. And it affects the people at the lowest levels the most, but people like you are too ignorant to care about it.

Goddamn &^%$&T%#$Q!! Sticks on to you like a tick and never lets go while draining the thread of all sense.

 

[patentneer]

I welcome this healthy discourse.

Indians pls. stop being so touchy. China is not competing with India. China has pulled off a miracle. Unlike India, many Global jobs and industries have been impacted by China. Mexican outsourcing, Eastern Europe and Spain's industry come to mind.

Like India, China has problems too.
The world will be a better place if China and India could share experiences. They both have a lot to offer each other.

To give credit where credit is due is maturity, grow up!

While China and Dubai did it's infra. stuff a gen., like 25 yrs., ago with some finishing up lately ; India's infra. story is unfolding in full glare of a Global, media and internet world. Far more interesting.

 

[Backbencher]

Plz no lectures and dumb farts from now on . This thread is made to post INDIAN development pictures and I repeat INDIAN development pictures .
It will be more than appreciated if these good for nothing Chinese don't visit this thread .

 

[Guynextdoor2]

All developing countries need physical infrastructure. Better infrastructure is a major and necessary components of development. A child cannot grow without food, and a developing nation cannot develop without infrastructure. Therefore the topic is essential and very much relevant here.

Of course, you were referring to the 'soft' social infrastructure; but remember, having better physical infrastructure also helps building social capital. The two are intimately connected and if done right, form a virtuous, mutually reinforcing cycle.

Cheers!

And when was democratic politics ever 'rational'?

 

[by78]

And when was democratic politics ever 'rational'?

Well, politics is never rational, democratic or not. Regardless, infrastructure development has been pulled off successfully in many countries with different socio-political systems. I think politics doesn't explain all. Just my two cents.


Cheers!

living in the self deluding bubble will get India no where, there are very serious problems with your society. And it affects the people at the lowest levels the most, but people like you are too ignorant to care about it.

Now that was unnecessary and unprovoked. The title of this thread clearly states that India still has 'a long way to go', which doesn't sound like deluded to me.

Regarding social inequality, you have a point, but this is a problem that afflicts many countries. Gini co-efficients for the U.S. and China are off the charts compared to India.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Cheers!

 

[Abingdonboy]

You are right, I don't understand Indian politics. But could you provide a simple explanation for a novice?

Well I'm no expert either mate but the way I've come to understand it is in a land of 1.21++ billion people for every project/policy there is going to be a few isolated groups who oppose them for whatever reason (ideological, ignorance, monetary gain etc) and then local politicians who are looking for votes jump on the bandwagon so you eventually have a political storm that takes horrendous amounts of time to clear. It is sheer opportunism and stupidity, but that's how it is right now.


Projects you think would be beneficial for everyone and no one could possibly will oppose will bring out the lowlifes.

 

[by78]

Is building skyscrapers and high speed rails the key to alleviating abject poverty in the rural areas and reduce infant mortality? The whole notion was on how China manged to drastically improve their HDI without the fancy infrastructure it boast today on its eastern sea board is what India should aim for. India and China are on very different stages of development.

Majority of Indian miss the whole point of development, development is for the advancement of the people, its not a GDP figure or a growth percentage. Rather than showing off new apartment complexes how about showing something about improving the electricity distribution networks?

You are fighting a straw man. I've never said that social capital was unimportant. It was you who had kindly ascribed this position to me, but you should have at least verified with me beforehand.

India is over 30% urbanized, and since this is India, 30% represents a lot of people. These people need better urban infrastructure, which includes skyscrapers, high-speed rail, and city parks. How does neglecting the needs of these 350 million people make India's development better?

But I do see your point, which is that India should do more for its poorest citizens, most of whom live in rural areas. I agree with that. Although I don't have any numbers, but I'm sure India has made progress there as well. Has there been enough progress? Well progress is never enough, thus the title of the thread says, 'still a long way to go'.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!

 

[by78]

Well I'm no expert either mate but the way I've come to understand it is in a land of 1.21++ billion people for every project/policy there is going to be a few isolated groups who oppose them for whatever reason (ideological, ignorance, monetary gain etc) and then local politicians who are looking for votes jump on the bandwagon so you eventually have a political storm that takes horrendous amounts of time to clear. It is sheer opportunism and stupidity, but that's how it is right now.


Projects you think would be beneficial for everyone and no one could possibly will oppose will bring out the lowlifes.

I think a much faster court system in India would help a lot. I heard many projects are needlessly delayed due to legal disputes not being settled because cases take years to resolve.

Maybe it'd be better to fast track infrastructure related disputes. Just a thought.

And if there is a way to keep the politicians away from projects, that'd be great too, not just for India, but for the U.S. as well.


Cheers!

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think a much faster court system in India would help a lot. I heard many projects are needlessly delayed due to legal disputes not being settled because the cases take years to resolve.

Maybe it'd be better to fast track infrastructure related disputes. Just a thought.

And if there is a way to keep the politicians away from projects, that'd be great too, not just for India, but for the U.S. as well.


Cheers!

I agree a faster judiciary would greatly improve things in many ways but there would still be these hurdles as many of the masses in India who protest for the sake of protesting don't care what some court says. Take the example of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant even after the project was cleared by the highest court in the land (Supreme Court) those fools were still out on the beaches and obstructing the project.
@by78 this is why I say it is unfair to compare India and China on this front. China being a one party authoritarian state has much more ease in pushing these major projects through than India where there are hundreds of political parties all with a different agenda and there are a billion plus people all with the right to object and exercise this regularly.

 

[by78]

I agree a faster judiciary would greatly improve things in many ways but there would still be these hurdles as many of the masses in India who protest for the sake of protesting don't care what some court says. Take the example of the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant even after the project was cleared by the highest court in the land (Supreme Court) those fools were still out on the beaches and obstructing the project.
@by78 this is why I say it is unfair to compare India and China on this front. China being a one party authoritarian state has much more ease in pushing these major projects through than India where there are hundreds of political parties all with a different agenda and there are a billion plus people all with the right to object and exercise this regularly.

Mmmm... That's a real pickle, no doubt about it. Sounds like to me that India might need more and better riot police. If many of these protestors are not protesting for genuine reasons, then their resistance should fall away quickly after spending a few days in jail for disrupting approved projects.

And you are right, authoritarian governance is not the solution for India. It's culturally incompatible with India and also impractical. As Amartya Sen would say, Indians are too 'argumentative' for authoritarianism and maybe for democracy as well.

But if the Golden Quadrilateral got done, then there has to be a way forward.

Cheers!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Mmmm... That's a real pickle, no doubt about it. Sounds like to me that India might need more and better riot police. If many of these protestors are not protesting for genuine reasons, then their resistance should fall away quickly after spending a few days in jail for disrupting approved projects.

I agree in part but I think there are sufficiently well trained equipped riot police in India if needs be (see Rapid Action Force) but yes this may prove important in some cases. But I think even with the best trained riot police in the world the problems wouldn't be eradicated as the right to protest would be thrown around by all and sundry and the local authroties would have to allow these people to do what they do.

 

[sms]

I don't understand how you can politicize the things I have mentioned in my posts. How do India's socio-political factors prevent her from setting up free trade zones, or building sufficient green spaces in her cities, or building a nation-wide high-speed rail network? All of these things are tried and true and have succeeded in both democratic and non-democratic countries.

Please enlighten me as to what is it about India that is different from the rest of the world that the above things are somehow impractical?

It seems to me that my posts have struck a raw nerve, which is rather unnecessary and just a bit strange. As I've mentioned, and I'm sure you'll concur, the topic of India vs China is rather popular in India due to the two countries' shared population, resource, and developmental challenges. So why not extend that discussion here to elevate the discussion?

Cheers!

You missed the very basic I've mentioned in my post "the approach" and system empowering govt. in China and India to execute the intended plan.

No one here said that India is not putting up required infrastructure. We are but or system put hurdles and makes it very slow. Just to start of every project land is required and unlike in China land in India belongs to people and they and millions of reason to deny or delay the land sale to Govt.

If you look at last 10 year you'll know how much roads, industrial zones, EPZ, power plants etc put in place but that's nowhere close to requirement.

In short we are on right track eventually we'll reach the destination . we just need a catalyst (big change in system) to be there swiftly.

In short comparing India and China approach is futile as both cannot emulate the process and have to live with the law of land and limitation of the existing laws.

 

[by78]

I agree in part but I think there are sufficiently well trained equipped riot police in India if needs be (see Rapid Action Force) but yes this may prove important in some cases. But I think even with the best trained riot police in the world the problems wouldn't be eradicated as the right to protest would be thrown around by all and sundry and the local authroties would have to allow these people to do what they do.

Get tough, get really tough with those who protest frivolously. If a project benefits the majority and has been approved by the courts after multiple appeals, then jail the protestors, not for days or weeks but months and years if necessary. Fine them severely, deny them government subsidies, and deny their children admission to government subsidized schools and colleges. Let the reasonable majority ostracize these crazed idiots. If these idiots are not willing to sacrifice a bit for the good of the majority, then why should any taxpayers' money be spent to benefit them?

As I said, if these protestors have no genuine grievance, then they will give up after a few weeks in jail. This is how basic human psychology works. The idiots may make a big cue and cry, but their resistance will crumble before sufficient disincentives.

In life, sometimes you've got to be nasty. It's not pleasant, but if idiots don't give you a choice, you've got to do what you've got to do.

Cheers!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Mumbai-Pune Expressway

Get tough, get really tough with these protestors who have no good reason. If a project benefits the majority and has been approved by the courts after multiple appeals, then jail the protestors, not for days or weeks but months and years if necessary. Fine them, deny them government subsidies, and deny their children admission to government funded schools and colleges. Let the reasonable majority ostracize these crazed idiots. If these idiots are not willing to sacrifice a bit for the good of the majority, then why should any taxpayers' money be spent to benefit them?

As I said, if these protestors have no genuine grievance, then they will give up after a few weeks in jail.

In life, sometimes you've got to be nasty. It's not pleasant, but if idiots don't give you a choice, you've got to do what you've got to do.

Cheers!

I agree with you but this is the difference between India and China. These things will never happen in India. Whatever way you cit it there is more accountability in a democracy so there will always be a politician who stands up for the rights of these degenerates. In China you can make someone disappear and no one pays much attention.