India court convicts 24 over Gujarat riots massacre

[ayesha.a]

Not necessarily. It may lead to increased crime. But that is different from treason or sedition.

Oh it can lead to treason and sedition as well, and has happened a lot of times in India. OK, maybe not necessarily, - but very possibly. If by crime you mean pickpocketing and petty theft and credit card fraud, no that is not what will increase under these circumstances. It is a resentment against the nation that will arise, if the nation-state is seen to fail in its duty of avenging the victims. And that provides a fertile breeding ground of recruits for foreign or domestic anti-national groups to exploit.

If you are aware of the North-East insurgencies, you would know that they all began due to collective resentment that the GoI is ignoring their region, and that their voices were not being heard. Loss of faith in the Delhi led central govt, and the lack of trust that New Delhi would address their grievances (of which they had many), is what motivated so many people there to taking up arms against the Indian state.

If there is effective policing and good governance and speedy resolution of grievances in central India, the Maoists would not find so many recruits to wage war against the Indian state.

The Gujarat riots were an effective propaganda tool for Pakistan based organizations to recruit hundreds of disenchanted Muslims, some of whom helped in the Akshardham attacks. (Manzoor Chaudhry is an example.)

Make no mistake, the sufferings of victims at the time, and the sense of despondency and hopelessness for justice, did substantially contribute to a spike in anti-national activity.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The Gujarat riots were an effective propaganda tool for Pakistan based organizations to recruit hundreds of disenchanted Muslims, some of whom helped in the Akshardham attacks. (Manzoor Chaudhry is an example.)

Yes. But the most ferocious terror attacks were not inspired by Gujarat riots.

Your point is correct, except it misses a critical point. That of religion.

Persecution of minority population in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt etc does not lead to the people rioting in the streets or attacks on the other religious centers.

Even the choice of location was also motivated by religion. For example, the ex militants of NE attacks military convoys, army camps, informers etc. Indian Mujaheedin and SIMI etc attacked the Akshardham temple. This is a valid point that can't be wished away.

That said, it is important to maintain the rule of Law and deliver justice to all. And this process should be strengthened. Regardless of faith.

Make no mistake, the sufferings of victims at the time, and the sense of despondency and hopelessness for justice, did substantially contribute to a spike in anti-national activity.

No doubt. Please read above.

I guess you will get my point. Else please ask, I will elaborate.

 

[ayesha.a]

Yes. But the most ferocious terror attacks were not inspired by Gujarat riots.

Your point is correct, except it misses a critical point. That of religion.

Persecution of minority population in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt etc does not lead to the people rioting in the streets or attacks on the other religious centers.

Even the choice of location was also motivated by religion. For example, the ex militants of NE attacks military convoys, army camps, informers etc. Indian Mujaheedin and SIMI etc attacked the Akshardham temple. This is a valid point that can't be wished away.

That said, it is important to maintain the rule of Law and deliver justice to all. And this process should be strengthened. Regardless of faith.


No doubt. Please read above.

I guess you will get my point. Else please ask, I will elaborate.

There always has to be an Us v/s Them, and religion is one cause for that to happen. It could be ethnicity or regionalism or language also, to name a few.

The Tamil insurgency in Sri Lanka? Happened because of the Black July pogrom, the state's complicity in that, and the unwillingness of the state to bring the perpetrators to justice. This led to the Tamils losing faith in the nation, and...you know the rest. It became ethnic Tamils v/s State of Sri Lanka.

BTW Indian Mujahideen and Simi have attacked a lot of religion neutral places too, like the train blasts in Mumbai 2006, or the Diwali blasts in New Delhi around that time. Yes they may have attacked Akshardham as a religious retribution, but their main enemy is the nation itself. For them it is very much a war against India.

Since the riots were Hindus v/s Muslims, of course there was bitterness against each other on those lines. But my point is that when the state fails to deliver justice, it also becomes a resentment against the state. Muslims have been recruited by anti-Indian groups because after the riots, just as Tamils became anti Sri Lanka and so on.

Short version:

Religious riots happen due to, and may breed further, religious animosity. But the failure of the State to bring perpetrators to justice, causes resentment against the State itself.

Persecution of minority population in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt etc does not lead to the people rioting in the streets or attacks on the other religious centers.

I think this is where you are missing my point. Persecution by majority groups is not what leads to resentment against the State - it is the failure or compicity of the state itself that makes it a minority v/s country issue. The minority Shias and Hazaras are targeted by the TTP, LeJ etc, but from the victims' PoV, they can see that the Pak army is at war with these groups. The state is not deliberately ignoring their plight.

But after the Gujarat riots there was a widespread feeling that the policemen were complicit in the riots, and that the courts and legislators were unwilling to take much action. That is the feeling that causes hatred against the nation itself, and that is what can be prevented by speedy trials and punishments.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

There always has to be an Us v/s Them, and religion is one cause for that to happen. It could be ethnicity or regionalism or language also, to name a few.

The Tamil insurgency in Sri Lanka? Happened because of the Black July pogrom, the state's complicity in that, and the unwillingness of the state to bring the perpetrators to justice. This led to the Tamils losing faith in the nation, and...you know the rest. It became ethnic Tamils v/s State of Sri Lanka.

BTW Indian Mujahideen and Simi have attacked a lot of religion neutral places too, like the train blasts in Mumbai 2006, or the Diwali blasts in New Delhi around that time. Yes they may have attacked Akshardham as a religious retribution, but their main enemy is the nation itself. For them it is very much a war against India.

Since the riots were Hindus v/s Muslims, of course there was bitterness against each other on those lines. But my point is that when the state fails to deliver justice, it also becomes a resentment against the state. Muslims have been recruited by anti-Indian groups because after the riots, just as Tamils became anti Sri Lanka and so on.

Short version:

Religious riots happen due to, and may breed further, religious animosity. But the failure of the State to bring perpetrators to justice, causes resentment against the State itself.



I think this is where you are missing my point. Persecution by majority groups is not what leads to resentment against the State - it is the failure or compicity of the state itself that makes it a minority v/s country issue. The minority Shias and Hazaras are targeted by the TTP, LeJ etc, but from the victims' PoV, they can see that the Pak army is at war with these groups. The state is not deliberately ignoring their plight.

But after the Gujarat riots there was a widespread feeling that the policemen were complicit in the riots, and that the courts and legislators were unwilling to take much action. That is the feeling that causes hatred against the nation itself, and that is what can be prevented by speedy trials and punishments.

Yes, I agree with all your points almost.

Only that the consequences of not getting justice varies for communities. Disillusionment is common and natural for all people. But for Muslims, (if they don't get justice) it takes epic proportions. The Hindus, the Sikh may hate the judge, the political leaders, even the system - but very very very rarely the nation. Some continue the fight legally, some give up, some move on, some reach a compromise, some join rival political parties and take revenge against individuals. But many Muslims join terror organizations and plot against the State in general.* It may be due to the fact that they very strongly identify themselves as belonging to a brotherhood of Islam. Even unharmed prosperous Muslims with friendly non Muslim friends and neighbors turn into spokesmen of ISIS.

This is my hypothesis. I can be wrong. Especially without a survey. I don't intend any offense.

* They often perceive any attack against them as an attack on Islam.

 

[livingdead]

it took 14 years to reach this verdict? better late than never though.

 

[John Reese]

it took 14 years to reach this verdict? better late than never though.

Sikhs brothers are Still Waiting

 

[livingdead]

Sikhs brothers are Still Waiting

you should thank all the people who made sure this one did not go unpunished, otherwise it would have been like 84. Both congress and BJP have been involved in coverup of 84. Neither side wants culprits punished.