What's new

India-China: The real military equation

Anony

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
677
Reaction score
-1
Country
India
Location
India
thumb.php


Leave aside economic growth parameters and astounding leaps in infrastructure that only increase the disparity between India and China with every passing day, the story is repeated about the increasing gap between the military capabilities of the two countries. China’s expenditure on defence is three times ours – if we accept disclosed figures – and could actually be more. It has improved its India’s border infrastructure considerably, thereby enabling quick mobilisation and redeployment of troops. China’s land forces mustered on the border outnumber those of India, whose own quite dismal efforts in improving infrastructure inhibit mobilisation and effective conduct of operations.

Modernisation of its air and naval power are key ingredients of China’s objective to be able to fight “high technology limited wars”, and steady progress is apparently being made in both these sectors. An old Soviet aircraft carrier, initially bought by the Chinese for conversion to a recreational platform, has now been refurbished as a full-fledged aircraft carrying ship – no small achievement – and more such platforms can be expected to be built locally in the years to come. China has realised that credible distant operations are impossible without access to organic air support and surveillance. Newer types of warships, surface and underwater, are being built. Reportedly, a Stealth fighter has also been developed.

India, on the other hand, is languishing – unable either to build or to develop, and indeed, even to buy, as most recently seen in the chopper deal. Enough money is not being provided, say some; what is provided is not being spent, say others. Insufficient focus on indigenisation is given as one reason for this state of affairs – as if that is something that can be achieved with simple changes of policy. The number of countries that can build their own tanks, guns, planes, ships and submarines and fit them with their own weapons and sensors can be counted on the fingertips. The US, the UK, France, Russia, Italy, Germany and Japan have not been in this business for just decades – they have been turning out major warships for more than 100 years.

The inability to bring in the private sector as a major supplier of defence equipment is another drum that gets beaten with increasing regularity – as if that route would quickly resolve the difficulties. This ignores the fact that some of the most common technologies – used in even ordinary consumer electronics – still have to be imported. Military technologies are several cuts above and manufacturing is not India’s strongest suit. How and why China has been able to do so much better is something that merits separate discussion, but the present reality is that, in terms of its military capabilities, India is falling way behind China.

Quite clearly, in terms of land power, the Chinese are ahead of us not just in numbers, but in their ability to move forces quickly and in the required numbers, both force multipliers. That said, this does not immediately make our cause a lost one. We are not about to see a war being fought a la World War II in which the fight will go on until one side is, ultimately, forced to surrender. What is more germane is whether, in a limited conflict, like the one in Kargil, we have the capability to inflict a degree of punishment that the adversary might not find acceptable – militarily and politically. In 1978, Vietnam achieved this objective against the invading Chinese army easily, despite being seriously outnumbered and outgunned. The moot question, therefore, is whether we are equipped and able to do something similar or not. Frankly, not even the most cynical among our military will doubt the Indian Army’s ability to do much more to the adversary than what Vietnam could do more than three decades ago. Our capabilities may not deter in the absolute sense, but are sufficient to dissuade the Chinese.

In the air, the situation is different. The Chinese have many more aircraft, but a good number are relatively old and unsuited to today’s war fighting. Even though they have lengthened and strengthened airfields in the Tibetan plateau, Chinese aircraft are more constrained in their operating parameters, such as endurance and weapon loads, compared to ours operating from airfields located at sea level. So, if it comes to a fight in the air, do not expect the Chinese air force to have a free ride. On the contrary, India has enough in its inventory to give the Chinese a run for their money, and more. Despite delays in inducting more fighter aircraft, the Indian Air Force, in its Sukhois, MIG-29s and Mirages has a quite potent punch. In short, in air power, the equation is pretty even.

At sea, the equation is decidedly tilted towards us. In the Indian Ocean region, India has advantages that the Chinese will be hard put to match. Availability of organic air power through dozens of airfields strung across the Indian coast and island territories enable not just credible operating capability across the large water space, but also surveillance over critical energy and shipping routes. Not only do the Chinese have limited resources to facilitate credible operations, their access to the Indian Ocean is constrained by the narrow channels of the South East Asian archipelago. These potential vulnerabilities in this maritime theatre must weigh heavily in Beijing.

This brings us to the nature of a possible military conflict. A skirmish at a couple of places on the land border cannot be ruled out and will soon be controlled, but anything more substantive will almost certainly bring air and sea power into play. China has an exposed energy lifeline across the Indian Ocean that it will find difficult to safeguard in the face of opposition. This serious vulnerability at sea cannot be kept out of the calculations that it will, inevitably, have to make, should it decide to take the military option.

In short, there is power asymmetry on land to our disadvantage, reasonable equality in the air and credible advantages in our favour at sea. It is this totality of the military interface that any adversary has to consider. The balance is not as lopsided as many of our people would have us believe, but it could become that if we are not careful. We must look at the military equations in their totality – and not just those limited to the land border – and develop our capabilities accordingly. Military planners are not concerned with what potential adversaries may or may not do; their task only is to ensure that the equation is not allowed to alter to our disadvantage. This calls for calm and continuing analysis – not alarm.
 
. . . . .
sometimes they call for alarm,sometimes for a calm analysis..:meeting:
 
. .
India press need to be less obsessive with China and focus on the actual problems. Compare with others will not solve any issues.
 
.
Actually it's the reach of China's ballistic missile and that to in very large numbers where they beat India hands down. With the help of their BMs they can target all the very vital military bases of India. Thus till India don't build a credible BMD and induct Agni-V in large numbers, these little obsessive Chinese influence will keep coming up.
 
.
300+ j-10s alone

or 300+ j-11s,su 27s alone

can handle 170 su30,60 mig29 and 50 ungradred mirages...

Its not going to be all against all, like an uninspired video game. The article itself states why China's numbers don't tell the whole story. China has a huge landmass, and the Tibetan plateau stands between India and China's plains. So their fighters have operational constraints on how much fuel and armament they can carry, the length of runways required and so on. That is why placing merely two squadrons of MKIs on the India-china border came as a huge augmentation of our defensive and offensive capability WRT China.

Also, there are hundreds of other factors that come into play during wartime. For example: Suppose India strikes some of the runways in Tibet. Until they are repaired, how would China bring any fighters to the border? In India's case, even if our border runways are hit, we can still have aircrafts taking off from across east India and reaching the borders. (That's not a permanent solution for India, just a short window of opportunity to attain local air superiority, for just enough time to allow ground operations in that area.)

There are many such things that both sides will do to each other to defeat the other temporarily. That's how a real border war will be fought. Not by bringing an air armada of 300 flanker clones on one side and 270 MKIs and mirages on the other side and then a complete free for all in the skies. Real battles are not fought by numbers, but by capabilities, tactics, the ability to sustain operations longer than the enemy.

The situation is different from an India-pak scenario, because Pakistan has a geographical disadvantage, lack of depth. There is no sprawling plateau between India and pak, so numbers and technological superiority matters.

China's big advantage WRT India is not the number of aircrafts it has. As long as we have aircrafts of comparable technology, and in semi decent numbers, they will still have to fight for their money. Their superior position is on the ground, and not by accident. In the past decade or so they built up a remarkable amount of infrastructure near the borders, with the ability to keep bringing troops into the theater. India will either have to match this infrastructure in the east (which is not possible because we have bigger priorities), or has to look for cost effective ways to tilt the balance.

Airpower is one way. Every rupee spent in upgrading airfield infrastructure will bring a lot more value than spending for ground infra. That is why several airfields (including ones abandoned after WW2) are being comprehensively modernized, so that ground forces will always have air cover, and if the air force does well, then even temporary air superiority. Even with the numbers we have today, that is more than possible. With the super MKIs and rafales, it will be easier for India to maintain offensive air formations in that area. It will be much easier for India to sustain air operations on the border than for China, because most of India's air bases are not that far away. China's airbases and aircrafts are spread across their country, especially in their east. If we have temporary air superiority in one region, we can use our MKIs and other deep strikers to carry out air interdiction of their rail and road networks, and hamper their ability to transport troops, despite the commendable infrastructure they have built up.

Another measure India is taking is that instead of matching the PLA soldier for soldier, it is building more effective formations to take the war into enemy territory, defense through offense. Hence the mountain strike corps that is being raised. Instead of defending our territories to the last man, we will capture some of their own territory and then bargain and negotiate. Since India has ZERO offensive ambitions against China, and our strategy is only to be able to fully defend against China, this strategy plays well.

Anyway, to keep things short, my point is that if we play it right, numbers wont matter much, thanks to the geography and ground realities. If we are talking about a limited border war, India can easily defend against any Chinese aggression, with the numbers it has now, and will have in future. A full scale, all out war is a different kettle of fish. India will need a lot more of everything to be able to emerge victorious in that. We will need a bigger army, navy, air force, thrice the number of missiles, nukes, satellites, everything. It wont be possible for India in the foreseeable future to do that against china.
 
.
Ok taking your proppsed scenario:
When Indian jets attempts to attack Chinese air fields in Tibet, the advantages of having higher topographymeans Chinese air defnce radars will pick up your fighters much earlier, from then it's a turkey shoot. Chinese targets in Tibet are spread out, none of china's 18 army group is stationed in tibet. For india to take out chinese positions they will be stretched thin.
 
.
Ok taking your proppsed scenario:
When Indian jets attempts to attack Chinese air fields in Tibet, the advantages of having higher topography, it a
So means Chinese air defnce radars will pick up your fighters much earlier, from then it's a turkey shoot. Chinese targets in Tibet are spread out forcing Indian jets to fly in certain paths to get picked off easily. Will the Indian army be joining the air force climbing up mountains lacking oxygen?
In retaliation new Delhi is well within range of dirt cheap rocket platforms such as the ws2.

That part just ain't true. While radars see better with height, the effect of a plateau on an air scan radar is negligible. They are still land based radars. Just because they are on slightly higher ground doesn't give it any operational advantage. If they were aerostats, tethered to the ground but flying high, that would make a difference. Your point is somewhat akin to saying that people on top of a 20 story building will feel hotter, since they are closer to the sun. That height is negligible in comparison to the earth-sun distance.

Sure, New delhi can be targeted by Chinese artillery. (Rockets is debatable, but short range missiles for sure.) But my entire post was about a limited border war, as I made clear. In an all out war targeting inner cities, the whole scenario would be different. Besides, its not like delhi is an unprotected and vulnerable city, and its not like a few rockets can bring that city to its knees.

I did not understand your sentence about climbing mountains without oxygen.
 
.
Chinese don't even consider a puny state like india a threat...:lol:

China prepares itself with the U.S military in mind....

y are they buliding ports in IOR and trying to maintain their navy here??please dont tell me because of pirates...

Ok taking your proppsed scenario:
When Indian jets attempts to attack Chinese air fields in Tibet, the advantages of having higher topographymeans Chinese air defnce radars will pick up your fighters much earlier, from then it's a turkey shoot. Chinese targets in Tibet are spread out, none of china's 18 army group is stationed in tibet. For india to take out chinese positions they will be stretched thin.

in a wvr scenario u really think that chinese jets will win over russian and french jets??i'll leave that to u..besides our airforce would be used not to attack anybody but to defend home so when ur jets enters indian air space and to ur badluck none will get out.
 
.
besides our airforce would be used not to attack anybody but to defend home so when ur jets enters indian air space and to ur badluck none will get out.

That's not true. In the event of a border war, the air force WILL have to disrupt Chinese supply lines and border infrastructure, otherwise they will be able to overwhelm our troops on the ground through sheer numbers. The air force is not simply for air defence, part of its duty is to assist ground troops, and change the situation on the ground. If the IAF doesn't disrupt their rail and road networks, they can keep bringing as many troops as they want, for a lot longer than we would be able to, train by train. Just because the 1962 war didn't see the employment of air forces, doesn't mean that that is how future wars will be fought. Unlike back then, today both sides have capable 4th gen multirole fighters with good range, and the ability to influence the ground battle using very few aircrafts.
 
.
Chinese don't even consider a puny state like india a threat...:lol:

China prepares itself with the U.S military in mind....

Before Indian members laugh themselves off at a Pakistani speaking on behalf of China.

Make yourself clear, If China doesn't consider India a threat , then why China maintains half-million troops in Tibet and recent military infrastructure upgrade in Tibet?

China - "I envy your tech man."

India - "How the hell do you churn up so many fighting units?"

China - "Who's churning, me? I simple fool Russian and provide something 80% similar to their's!" :devil:

India - "We have our tech lying around , Israel chips in and Russians too sometimes."

India - "BTW why don't we tie up and you dump the parasites!"

China - "We need a place to dump our excess junk! Say what in 10 yrs lets kick Western dominance and those *** tight Yorkies!"

India - "Deal"

:cheers:

And then 1962 war happened.

Ok taking your proppsed scenario:
When Indian jets attempts to attack Chinese air fields in Tibet, the advantages of having higher topographymeans Chinese air defnce radars will pick up your fighters much earlier, from then it's a turkey shoot. Chinese targets in Tibet are spread out, none of china's 18 army group is stationed in tibet. For india to take out chinese positions they will be stretched thin.

Chances of India performing strikes into China in the event of war are low due to political compulsions.

Though one wonder why SU - 30 MKI were stationed along Chinese border.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom