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India, China step on the gas on oil sourcing plan

GeraltofRivia

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26 Apr 2019

New Delhi: China and India, the world’s second and third largest oil importers, respectively, are nearing an arrangement to form a buyers’ bloc to bargain collectively for oil supplies and reduce the influence of the Saudi Arabia-led cartel on oil prices, according to three officials aware of the development.

The two strategic rivals have made progress on joint sourcing of crude oil, with Li Fanrong, deputy administrator of China’s National Energy Administration, visiting New Delhi last month.

India and China are attempting to form a buyers’ club that may also persuade the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) oil cartel to pare the premiums placed on oil sold to Asian nations.

Tightening US sanctions against Iran and Opec’s production curbs have driven oil prices to more than $75 a barrel for the first time in 2019. Higher oil prices stoke inflation and hurt economic growth in India, which imports more than 80% of its oil requirements.

The US’s conditional waiver for Iranian oil imports to eight countries, including China and India, is set to expire on 2 May. China and India are among Iran’s top oil customers.

The visit by Fanrong, who earlier headed China’s largest offshore oil and gas producer CNOOC, followed India’s petroleum secretary, M.M. Kutty’s visit to Beijing last October. Kutty had led a delegation of officials from the oil ministry and state-run oil marketing companies.

This initiative is being effectively followed up because it is part of our India-China Wuhan spirit. Petroleum secretary’s visit to China was in that spirit. It was an exploratory visit to see where we can converge in our interest areas. The Chinese visit was a follow-up to that visit. The traction will grow," said a government official, one of the three people cited earlier, requesting anonymity.

The Wuhan summit in April 2018, for which Prime Minister Narendra Modi travelled to China for an informal meeting with Chinese president Xi Jinping, set the stage for the two countries to stabilize ties rocked by a 73-day-long military standoff at Doklam in Bhutan in the previous year.

The coming together of China and India may change the global energy architecture. India has been trying to stitch together alliances and has also proposed that Japan and South Korea, the world’s fourth and fifth largest oil importers, respectively, join the buyers’ front. However, detailed engagements between New Delhi and Beijing are the first off the block.

Petroleum secretary visited China last year. The visit wasn’t advertised as desired by the Chinese side," the second Indian government official said on condition of anonymity.

A joint energy sourcing strategy will help in negotiating better terms with producers such as those in West Asia, which have been charging a so-called Asian premium. With most Asian countries being primarily dependent on West Asia to meet their energy needs, customers from the continent are forced to pay a premium due to their dependence as compared to the US and the European Union. India has consistently pitched for a price and terms correction.

The question is, as consuming countries, do we have any bargaining power? While we may not be able to form a coalition like Opec, we have certain common objectives that we want to achieve," the first official said.

Energy consumers have been trying to minimize their supply risks at a time when Opec, which accounts for about 40% of global production, is continuing with supply cuts and the US administration is imposing sanctions on Venezuela’s state-owned oil firm, Petróleos de Venezuela SA.

The third person cited earlier said, “The proposed combine is a work in progress."

Indian Oil Corp. Ltd (IOC) chairman Sanjiv Singh and China National Petroleum Corp. chairman Wang Yilin were earlier tasked with exploring such an engagement.

The need to work together has dawned on their side as well. We are trying to take advantage of that," said the first official.

India is in discussions with oil producers in West Asia as well as other producers to procure extra crude over the year to urgently bridge a supply gap that will be caused by the exit of Iran from its energy basket. While there may not be supply-side constraints, pricing is certainly an issue. “There will be no shortages starting May and there will be enough to be refined to ensure that enough fuel is available at the pumps," the first official said. “Our imports from Iran have been tapering off since November. The supplies can’t be at the same rates as Iran. Crude oil price has gone up by 1$ per barrel since Wednesday."

Queries emailed to spokespeople of India’s ministries of external affairs and petroleum and natural gas, the Chinese embassy in New Delhi, IOC, Bharat Petroleum Corp. Ltd and Hindustan Petroleum Corp. Ltd remained unanswered.
https://www.livemint.com/industry/energy/india-china-step-on-the-gas-on-oil-sourcing-plan/amp-1556224759083.html
 
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Good initiative...Like OPEC, there should be a buyer club involving top 5 importers of the world..For start, we can make a group of China, India, Pakistan, BD, Sri Lanka, Japan and other developing economies of Asia..
Totally. If China and India can form a buyer club, the smaller buyers like Japan and SK will join otherwise they will be left out.
 
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Replace Gasoline with Ethanol. Even though less efficient, it can be produced cheaply. :-)
 
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There is one thing that I like about Indo China relations is that even with plethora of issues and differences, in the matters of external trade factors which can have massive impacts on their economy, India and China always stand together.
PS:- this doesnt mean China suddenly becomes good guy for India. Its just a textbook example of diplomacy from both sides
 
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Replace Gasoline with Ethanol. Even though less efficient, it can be produced cheaply. :-)

Ethanol as a primary fuel source will add strain on the food supply chain by taking resources away from farming for food.

Ethanol production leads to higher food prices and food shortages.

Something India can ill afford with over a Billion mouths to feed.
 
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Replace Gasoline with Ethanol. Even though less efficient, it can be produced cheaply. :-)
You can't replace Gasoline with Ethanol as Ethanol shortens the life span of your car engine..
 
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You can't replace Gasoline with Ethanol as Ethanol shortens the life span of your car engine..

That's when Ethanol is blended with Gasoline. Because it attracts water and is corrosive. But a purely Ethanol based engine won't face that much issue, since it will be customized for that. I guess the efficiency is the main issue. :-)
 
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Ethanol as a primary fuel source will add strain on the food supply chain by taking resources away from farming for food.

Ethanol production leads to higher food prices and food shortages.

Something India can ill afford with over a Billion mouths to feed.

Oh, come on. You are partially correct, especially in the contest of U.S or some European and Latin American countries where the main source of ethanol is corn. But in India the major source is Sugarcane. And FYI, Sugar and Sugarcane is not some staple food. We produce enough Sugarcane that the sugar farmers are currently distressed due to high supply and low demand. It is actually a Win-Win situation for both sugar industry and the government w.r.t India.

https://www.insightsonindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Sugar-Industry-Crisis.pdf
 
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Pipeline coming from Iran to Pakistan and than going to china and india.
Trade dependence and economy is the only solution for these 3 to stop hostilities
 
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Oh, come on. You are partially correct, especially in the contest of U.S or some European and Latin American countries where the main source of ethanol is corn. But in India the major source is Sugarcane. And FYI, Sugar and Sugarcane is not some staple food. We produce enough Sugarcane that the sugar farmers are currently distressed due to high supply and low demand. It is actually a Win-Win situation for both sugar industry and the government w.r.t India.

https://www.insightsonindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Sugar-Industry-Crisis.pdf

Do you know how many acres of farm land is needed to produce ethanol to one barrel equivalent of oil?

Add to that, you will need to also account for the increase in potable water used to produce ethanol fuel.

Through research performed at Cornell University, we know that 1 acre of land can yield about 7,110 pounds (3,225 kg) of corn, which can be processed into 328 gallons (1240.61 liters) of ethanol. That is about 26.1 pounds (11.84 kg) of corn per gallon.

Ethanol. 1 gallon = 84,600 Btu – HHV *. 1 gallon = 89.3 megajoules – HHV * ... Bio- diesel average density = .88 metric tons per ... 1 barrel oil equivalent = approximately 1.364 million.

Assuming the BTU is equivalent for oil and ethanol:
1 acre land = 1.241 m3 ethanol = 0.2 bbl
Therefore for 1 bbl of ethanol you will need approx. 5 acres of land.


India consumes on average 4.7 million bbl of oil per day day source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_consumption

Therefore in a year 4.7E6 * 365 = 1.7E9 bill of oil per year (1.7 billion bbl oil per year)

For a complete transition to ethanol (i know not reasonable but let just estimate) you will need 1.7 billion * 5 = 8.5 billion acres of farm land producing ethanol.

India's total arable land area of 159.7 million hectares (394.6 million acres ... 0.4 billion acres).

Therefore, a total conversion to ethanol is not possible. Even a 10% conversion is not feasible.... I am just doing a rough back of the envelope calculation.
 
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Do you know how many acres of farm land is needed to produce ethanol to one barrel equivalent of oil?

Add to that, you will need to also account for the increased in potable water used to produce ethanol fuel.

I don't care as long as I have substantial stakes in Praj Industries. :-):-):-)
 
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I just edited my post... Please re-read.

Well who told to completely ditch gasoline in the first place?? Even after great advancement in EV and battery technologues still no country have completely replaced gasoline based automobile engines. And there is I good reason for that. But it won't hurt to have ethanol vehicles along with gasoline and Brazil is one of the successful models.

And again, I don't care as long as I have my major stakes in Praj Industries. :-)
 
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Well who told to completely ditch gasoline in the first place?? Even after great advancement in EV and battery technologues still no country have completely replaced gasoline based automobile engines. And there is I good reason for that. But it won't hurt to have ethanol vehicles along with gasoline and Brazil is one of the successful models.

And again, I don't care as long as I have my major stakes in Praj Industries. :-)

My point is... Ethanol can only be a small part of that energy mix. Would it alone impact the overall consumption of hydrocarbons? I doubt it.

Yes; with other renewables and electrification of vehicles we may be looking at reducing the overall carbon footprint.
 
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