India Cancels Deal for Six Airbus Tankers

[punit]

They Are Not Fools

Now Calculate It In Billion $ I Don't buy your Naive views or Amatuer Perspective
What is you Profession

dont show me these Memes and my profession is not your concern.

 

[cerberus]

dont show me these Memes and my profession is not your concern.

This Official report of MOD Submitted in Parliament By DM MP in 2016

Link
http://mod.gov.in/writereaddata/accomplishments.pdf

PS: I just Ask you Profession Because It Don't Look as you are Expert or Analyst

 

[Blue Marlin]

The buzz is that there will be a combined procurement of 6+6 = 12 and 12 more options for a new tender.
The tender usage will be

• MRTT
• Hosting Phalcon Awacs

Contenders are

• IL76/78MKI
• A330 platform

Both of these are looked at with special focus on

• Operational uptime/ Availability rate
• Localisation of Spares
• Meeting DPP 2016 under which offsets needs to be defined where they will invest

Challenge seen is

• Wishing for commonality
• Cheaper maintenance
• Spare localisation and availability
• Better bargaining power and reduced costs upfront and LCC via spare localisations like points
• Competition would be tough surely but for this combined need will make both bid and we get a situation away from single bid

Talk about Indians being genius.. we find solutions to all complex problems with cunning street smart ways

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ssions-thread-2.351407/page-288#ixzz4FtGmcd2v

there a bogey man in the shadows. something even you have missed and no its not from boeing.
so now think to yourself if its not from airbus or boeing who else can it be? but it must be able to refuel the rafale so that leaves only one. guess what it is ?

 

[punit]

This Official report of MOD Submitted in Parliament By DM MP
Link
http://mod.gov.in/writereaddata/accomplishments.pdf

PS: I just Ask you Profession Because It Don't Look as Expert or Analyst

what is the status of and tentative date of completion of these deals ?

1. MRCA/Rafel Deal,
2. Replacement for INSAS.
3. Aerial Tankers.
4. Project 75I-class submarine


ps : before u get any ideas.. i have nothing against Mr Modi Govt. its just that MOD is Turing into dog house.

 

[Roybot]

The buzz is that there will be a combined procurement of 6+6 = 12 and 12 more options for a new tender.
The tender usage will be

• MRTT
• Hosting Phalcon Awacs

Contenders are

• IL76/78MKI
• A330 platform

Both of these are looked at with special focus on

• Operational uptime/ Availability rate
• Localisation of Spares
• Meeting DPP 2016 under which offsets needs to be defined where they will invest

Challenge seen is

• Wishing for commonality
• Cheaper maintenance
• Spare localisation and availability
• Better bargaining power and reduced costs upfront and LCC via spare localisations like points
• Competition would be tough surely but for this combined need will make both bid and we get a situation away from single bid

Talk about Indians being genius.. we find solutions to all complex problems with cunning street smart ways

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ssions-thread-2.351407/page-288#ixzz4FtGmcd2v

Please explain that to @Joe Shearer

 

[cerberus]

what is the status of and tentative date of completion of these deals ?

1. MRCA/Rafel Deal,
2. Replacement for INSAS.
3. Aerial Tankers.
4. Project 75I-class submarine


ps : before u get any ideas.. i have nothing against Mr Modi Govt. its just that MOD is Turing into dog house.

So you Want 10 yrs work 2 years Why So hurry MOD have to Look
Things in Many Angles
Tanker Deal is off With Airbus
But MoD Selected 2 Airbus A330 for DRDO AWACS Project
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-sole-bidder-for-indian-awacs-project-409208/

 

[punit]

So you Want 10 yrs work 2 years Why So hurry MOD have to Look
Things in Many Angles
Tanker Deal is off With Airbus
But MoD Selected 2 Airbus A330 for DRDO AWACS Project
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-sole-bidder-for-indian-awacs-project-409208/

so how many years more required? last 10 years were darkest ,, it does not mean the next 5 should also share same fate,

 

[cerberus]

so how many years more required? last 10 years were darkest ,, it does not mean the next 5 should also share same fate,

India is Not Rich you want Rafale,Super SuKhoi upgrade,F-18/F-16 ,2 Aircraft carrier ,6 SSBN ,200 LCA other Etc Which will cost money

Like I said Reason given in article Its not cost effective Better By Few More Il-78MKI for Future needs

 

[punit]

India is Not Rich you want Rafale,Super SuKhoi upgrade ,2 Aircraft carrier ,6 SSBN ,200 LCA

Like I said Reason given in article Its not cost effective Better By Few More Il-78MKI for Future needs

then cancel the deals or make it reasonable, but MOD is busy moving in circle sniffing its own arse !

 

[cerberus]

then cancel the deals or make it reasonable, but MOD is busy moving in circle sniffing its own arse !

MOD Already Signed Contract Signed Worth Above 17 Billion $ It Not possible if MOD was busy moving in circle sniffing its own arse



DAC Released Funds for Contract Worth 36.05 Billion $ Which are On Pipeline or Almost Inked



Better than Previous regimes Like i Said MOD have to Look
Things in Many Angles

 

[punit]

MOD Already Signed Contract Signed Worth Above 17 Billion $ It Not possible if MOD was busy moving in circle sniffing its own arse



DAC Released Funds for Contract Worth 36.05 Billion $ Which are On Pipeline or Almost Inked



Better than Previous regimes Like i Said MOD have to Look
Things in Many Angles

ok sir .. i congratulate u on ur optimism !

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

The buzz is that there will be a combined procurement of 6+6 = 12 and 12 more options for a new tender.
The tender usage will be

• MRTT
• Hosting Phalcon Awacs

Contenders are

• IL76/78MKI
• A330 platform

Both of these are looked at with special focus on

• Operational uptime/ Availability rate
• Localisation of Spares
• Meeting DPP 2016 under which offsets needs to be defined where they will invest

Challenge seen is

• Wishing for commonality
• Cheaper maintenance
• Spare localisation and availability
• Better bargaining power and reduced costs upfront and LCC via spare localisations like points
• Competition would be tough surely but for this combined need will make both bid and we get a situation away from single bid

Talk about Indians being genius.. we find solutions to all complex problems with cunning street smart ways

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ssions-thread-2.351407/page-288#ixzz4FtGmcd2v

" 24-32 " A330 platforms , along with "2-8" Il76/78...
For Tankers (~28needed) and AWACS( DRDO AESA on A330 is not coming soon...)
Both will be G2G....

Rumors about American option is totally wrong here.

 

[Blue Marlin]

there a bogey man in the shadows. something even you have missed and no its not from boeing.
so now think to yourself if its not from airbus or boeing who else can it be? but it must be able to refuel the rafale so that leaves only one. guess what it is ?

@PARIKRAMA its no good liking the post when you dont answer the question?
what is the supprise in the hat?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA its no good liking the post when you dont answer the question?
what is the supprise in the hat?

I was taking a shower man...

there a bogey man in the shadows. something even you have missed and no its not from boeing.
so now think to yourself if its not from airbus or boeing who else can it be? but it must be able to refuel the rafale so that leaves only one. guess what it is ?

There are 3 big names
Boeing - USA
Airbus - France/Euro
and Iluyushin - Russia

Of course Russian are pressurizing for the IL76/78MKI but there is a choice of Airbus bcz we wish to see what more under MII we can get. You know Low Cost Airlines like Indigo has ordered massive numbers of A320 Neos. So we are trying to see how best with so much deals from our side we can use the civil and military aircraft giant to benefit our MIC.

The Russians is difficult to comment on what they will offer under MII. Normally they wont like to do any work but then who knows . They may change as well.

 

[Abingdonboy]

HO, AFP

In this undated handout picture, released on October 14, 2009, an Indian Air more

NEW DELHI — India has withdrawn the tender for a much-awaited contract for the purchase of six multi-role tanker transport (MRTT) aircraft with Airbus Defence and Space, worth more than $1 billion, on grounds of the planes’ high operational cost.

This is the second MRTT aircraft global tender to be cancelled by the ministry of defense since 2006.

"We have [recently] cancelled the MRTT deal with Airbus because platforms are too expensive and not economically viable to operate", said an MoD official who declined to be identified.

"We have examined this deal very carefully and the [budgetary] approval has been rejected thrice by the Indian finance ministry," the MoD official said.


"This is indeed a setback to us, as we want the MRTT aircraft desperately, and a fresh [global] procurement will take at least five more years", said a senior air force official said who requested anonymity.

The A330 MRTT came out on top of a Russian offering twice in the technical evaluation and, according to the air service, would have proven comparatively economical to operate over its lifespan.

Airbus Defence and Space executives here were unavailable for comments.

Another MoD official said the ruling National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government intends to bring transparency and avoid controversy in all [defense] procurements.

• DEFENSE NEWS
  
  India Awards $1 Billion Contract to Boeing for Four P-8I Aircraft
  
  
  The defense ministry selected the Airbus A330 platforms over the Russian Ilyushin IL-78 aircraft in July 2012 to be operated by the Indian air force for the next 25 years.
  
  The air branch wants modern MRTT aircraft very badly to increase the range of the current fleet of Sukhoi SU-30MKI multirole fighters.
  
  In response to a July 2010 global tender, only Airbus Defence and Space and Ilyushin Design Bureau of Russia qualified the bids, as Antonov Design Bureau of Ukraine was technically rejected and Boeing and Lockheed
  Martin did not participate in the bids.
  
  Currently the air force operates six obsolete IL-78 tanker aircraft bought from Uzbekistan over two decades ago.
  
  "The Indian government has struggled to make purchases through the open tender mechanism and is increasingly relying on the government-to-government route to meet the needs of the armed forces," independent defense analyst Nitin Mehta said.
  
  "The Airbus A330 MRTT acquisition is a case in point where twice the bidder was technically selected, declared lowest bidder (L-1), and each time the government has withdrawn in the process," Mehta added.

• http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...dia-cancels-deal-six-airbus-tankers/87720726/

I'll post what I had said in another thread on this subject:

Funnily enough, I was wondering to myself what exactly the MoD was playing at wrt to the MRTT deal. This is an annoying and yet all to predictable setback. MP is beset by the same tendancies as his predeccesor wherein he has a allowed an entirely irrelevent complaint from literally DECADES ago to scupper an excellent purchase.


HOWEVER, I think there is some light at the end of this tunnel. If one is watching these matters from a broader perspective it is clear that Airbus Military is getting more than a toehold in the Indian market these days and MII coupled with DPP-2016 may see Airbus/France as the greatest beneficary. Look at the C-295 offer (Tata JV), H225M/Panther offers (Mahindra JV), AWACS (INDIA) project of DRDO (A330 has been selected as the platform) as well as the C-295 for DRDO's MPA project (for the Indian Coast Guard and Navy). There is certainly scope for the A330 MRTT to enter into IAF service but, alas, this is India so it will be later than intended. I'm aware that Airbus is stepping up outsourcing efforts to India so hopefully the next MRTT bid will see more Indian content and pursued through the "Make In India" policy AND will incorporate a greater scope considering the IN has an outstanding requirement for 3-6 platforms of its own (the latter point is more of a fantasy considering pooled purchases are almost unheard of between the services).


I wonder how my friend @PARIKRAMA sees these things.

It is not all gloom and doom at all, this is a rather predictable outcome but the A330 MRTT will be in INdian service sooner rather than later but now it will be coming with industrial benefits.

Like I said Reason given in article Its not cost effective Better By Few More Il-78MKI for Future needs

Nope, that is a total waste of money.

I was taking a shower man...



There are 3 big names
Boeing - USA
Airbus - France/Euro
and Iluyushin - Russia

Of course Russian are pressurizing for the IL76/78MKI but there is a choice of Airbus bcz we wish to see what more under MII we can get. You know Low Cost Airlines like Indigo has ordered massive numbers of A320 Neos. So we are trying to see how best with so much deals from our side we can use the civil and military aircraft giant to benefit our MIC.

The Russians is difficult to comment on what they will offer under MII. Normally they wont like to do any work but then who knows . They may change as well.

I'm telling you bro, the Russians don't stand a chance. Boeing isn't in the fray (for some reason) and in a head to head with Airbus, the Russians will only face embrassment- once again.

In the past few years, the Russians have lost EVERY SINGLE open bid when pitted with Western competitors:

Heavy lift helo- Mi-26 T2 vs CH-47F=CH-47F win
Heavy attack helo- Mi-28 vs AH-64E= AH-64E win
MMRCA- MiG 35 vs Gripen, F-16/18, EFT and Rafale= Rafale win
AAR- IL-78MKI vs A330 MRTT= A330 MRTT win (twice)
RSH- Ka-226T2 vs Fennec= Fennec win

Now Russia no longer enjoys a monopolistic position in the Indian market and India has started to incorportate a merit based weighting system that includes life cycle costs the Russians are just unable to compete. They only score success in G-G deals (MKI, S-400, SSN, T-90, Frigates etc).