India can do nothing if there is another Mumbai

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

'What can India do if there's another 26/11? Nothing!'​

Najam Sethi, editor-in-chief of Pakistan's Daily Times and Friday Times newspapers and one of that country's most influential journalists, has said that even if there is another Mumbai-type terrorist attack that emanates from his soil, there is absolutely nothing India can do, and warned that if India launches a military strike, there would be all-out war that would de-stabilise the entire region and have an adverse impact on India's quest to be a global power.

In an interaction with leading think-tanks and scholars, who focus on the subcontinent, and heads of South Asia programmes hosted by the Asia Programme of the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars, Sethi said there was no guarantee that there could not be another Mumbai [ Images ] "because many of these former non-State actors, which became State actors, are now back to their non-State actor role -- some of them fairly autonomous."

Arguing that India's demand that the composite dialogue cannot be resumed unless and until there is a crackdown on some of these elements as 'unreasonable', he said: "It took 30 years to make these non-State actors effective and they are not going to be disbanded and demilitarised overnight. It will take a long time. And it will take a transition period in which Indo-Pakistan relations have to get into conflict-resolution mode."

Sethi, whose reporting has frequently put him at odds with successive governments as well as with extremist religious and militant groups, and who was recently awarded the 2009 Golden Pen of Freedom -- the annual freedom prize of the World Association of Newspapers -- said: "The tragedy is that while we prepared to accept India's position before the election, it is very inexplicable why India is persisting with this position right now."

"It is hurtful to the cause of democracy in Pakistan, it is hurtful to the cause of Indo-Pak relations, it is hurtful to the cause of finding solutions in Afghanistan because India and Pakistan are fighting their proxy wars all over the place and because India already has a huge footprint in North Afghanistan and the Indian consulates are doing their bit there," he said.

Sethi said, "Therefore, this is something that India and Pakistan have to come to grips with and America has to weigh in discreetly if necessary to get a dialogue moving again and to get some conflict resolution done."

"The Indian and Pakistani proxy wars are spoiling the terrain completely," he reiterated, "and there is a mindset in Pakistan, especially in the Pakistan Army [ Images ] that finds this unacceptable."

He said consequently, "When we say we want the composite dialogue with India to continue -- to get on with and want the back-channel activated -- we don't want any conditions put on the composite dialogue."

Sethi said, "We find it inexplicable that a Congress government that is flushed with victory, still finds it difficult to get on with it, still is having to defend its commitments made in Sharm-el-Sheikh and that the Indian media is not part of the solution, it is still part of the problem just as the Pakistani media was part of the problem some time ago. Indian nationalism is still coming in the way."

He asserted, "If America wants Pakistan to cooperate and find solutions within Pakistan on terrorism, on domestic violence, on the economy, then we need peace on our borders. We can't have peace on our borders if the first thought that comes to India is, if there is another Mumbai."

"If there's another Mumbai, what then," he asked and said, there is no way India can launch military strikes.

"What could they do? The nuclear deterrent is alive and kicking, it's in place."

Sethi said, "Therefore, if another Mumbai happens, what does India do? Nothing. India can't do anything."

"If India does something, we are in very deep trouble. Therefore, we have to find a solution that makes that (another) Mumbai doesn't happen, and if it does -- because there's lots of non-state actors are there who are not listening to the Pakistani military and even less so to the Pakistani opposition and Pakistani government, what if another Mumbai happens? What will India do -- will this dialogue be derailed forever? Will the terrorists succeed in driving that wedge? Will the terrorists stop the road from Delhi [ Images ] to Islamabad [ Images ] and the road from Islamabad to Kabul?"

Sethi said, "It is in India's interest to build peace with Pakistan, because if India doesn't build peace with Pakistan, then we will fall into the Mumbai trap. Then India would have to take action, there will be war."

"If there is war, the war on terror will get lost and the terrorists will become part of Pakistan's arsenal against India," he warned.

Sethi recalled, "We saw a glimpse of that when Mumbai happened. The first thing the Taliban [ Images ] did was that they said we are going to stop fighting the Pakistani army and we are going to come to the border and fight with the Pakistani army against India in the event of an Indian strike."

"That is the danger of India not defining its interests in a particular way," he said.

Sethi argued that "if there is a war between India and Pakistan, India's economy and that whole notion of a resurgent India that is going to be the new emergent power, that's all going to get lost. We are talking nuclear weapons here and there's no way the Pakistani army is going to allow India to walk in or even to be humiliated."

"The entire political galaxy of Pakistan, including the people of Pakistan are going to line up solidly behind the Pakistani army on this one," he said.

And, Sethi added, "We are not talking of an army of a 100,000 people. We are talking of an army and a mindset in Pakistan -- a 60-year-old mindset in Pakistan, a national security State was that built on the basis of an enemy without, on the border. And, that's not going to change so quickly."

"So, if there is conflict with India, it will be an all-out conflict. I say that with full responsibility. I don't wish to say it, but I have seen it at very close quarters," he said.

"How the entire media, the entire opposition and even the Taliban suddenly folded right behind the Pakistani army on the mere mention of a threat of war with India."

Sethi, continued to hammer away saying that consequently, "It is in India's interest also to resolve some of these disputes, build trust with Pakistan. Give the new civilian dispensation the space and the opportunity to turn some of these things back."

"Therefore, this government needs space. We need to give Pakistan the space in which its interests can be protected with out crumbling from within," he said.

'Another 26/11? There's nothing India can do!': Rediff.com news

------------------------

Very realistic and pragmatic assessment from a man largely considered liberal, pro-peace and 'anti-establishment' in Pakistan and often highly critical of the military.

 

[paritosh]

it's a very good article...
well it's not that we are averse to the peace talks...we had a good atmosphere before mumbai happened.
It's true that there is a slow dying hate on both sides but the nature of that hate is contrasting.While the Pakistani hate can be summarized as based on the Kashmiri angle...of the belief that a part of their own is occupied...and it needs to be liberated.
The Indian hate is based on Pakistan being considered the enemy of three wars and just that.
In my own experience I have seen and heard more Indians talking of lasting peace than Pakistanis...now I don't say that the Pakistanis are not peace loving but just that we don't share views even in hatred.
so considering the above...there is a likelihood of this Pakistani hatred manifesting itself again and again as attacks like mumbai due to sheer desperation....and there has to be a proper course of action and a follow up to it.
If an incident like mumbai is repeated...there would be a war imo...and as the article points out...might be a full-scale one as we did play the diplomacy card...and a repition of mumbai would only mean that it failed.

 

[Kasrkin]

This is a deeply flawed logic in India that the actions of half a dozen guys in Mumbai represent a manifestation of 'hate' from the entire nation of Pakistan. If the majority of Pakistan wanted war with India then the situation would be very different for both of us today. Indians need to realize that the face of Ajmal Kasab is not the face of Pakistan. Ofcourse Indian extremists would not prefer to think of Pakistan as anything but an inhuman entity hell bent on ruining India out of jealously and spite alone. But the fact is that if the two countries make comprehensive and reasonable peace then such attacks would not only become meaningless, but they would stop (i.e. if Kashmir is resolved). India has issues (including with its Muslim populations) that cannot all be blamed on Pakistan. And Pakistan has issues that wil not be settled in a day for example that of the tribal areas. So indeed MUCH of what the Indians ‘demand’ is unreasonable, especially when its apparent that they still want see everything through the old lens of Indo-Pak rivalry and are ABSOLUTELY incapable of compromising on anything themselves. Even talking with Pakistan is seen as a big 'concession' in India, what India will get in the future i.e. peace with Pakistan or not depends how it behaves now.

 

[muse]

This is a deeply flawed logic in India that the actions of half a dozen guys in Mumbai represent a manifestation of 'hate' from the entire nation of Pakistan. If the majority of Pakistan wanted war with India then the situation would be very different for both of us today.

Unfortunately, the Indian are very comfortable in these ideas - best to let them continue in their ignorance is bliss routine, Pakistan continues to get stronger and stronger and Indian further removed from reality - when they wake up, we may still be interested -- or not.

 

[deep.ocean]

This is a deeply flawed logic in India that the actions of half a dozen guys in Mumbai represent a manifestation of 'hate' from the entire nation of Pakistan. If the majority of Pakistan wanted war with India then the situation would be very different for both of us today. Indians need to realize that the face of Ajmal Kasab is not the face of Pakistan. Ofcourse Indian extremists would not prefer to think of Pakistan as anything but an inhuman entity hell bent on ruining India out of jealously and spite alone. But the fact is that if the two countries make comprehensive and reasonable peace then such attacks would not only become meaningless, but they would stop (i.e. if Kashmir is resolved). India has issues (including with its Muslim populations) that cannot all be blamed on Pakistan. And Pakistan has issues that wil not be settled in a day for example that of the tribal areas. So indeed MUCH of what the Indians ‘demand’ is unreasonable, especially when its apparent that they still want see everything through the old lens of Indo-Pak rivalry and are ABSOLUTELY incapable of compromising on anything themselves. Even talking with Pakistan is seen as a big 'concession' in India, what India will get in the future i.e. peace with Pakistan or not depends how it behaves now.

Its not a flawed logic, It is based on individuals observation and thinking. If these butchers do not represent Pakistan then why your govt is still hesitating to take action against masterminds of 26/11.
Kashmir issue has been hijacked by Jihadis a longtime back. Now there is only Jihad in name of Religion and it will stay there after resolving Kashmir issue.

 

[Goodperson]

I do not agree fully with the logic,

The paper does not deny such attacks will not happen from Pakistan which is against so called Pakistan's official position.
India is better prepared for Mumbai type attacks and there will be a sure shot response next time. Last time the response was held back. I am afraid no Indian government can survive without surgical military response next time. Even the present Indian government is compelled to take tough stance against such attacks.

 

[Cholan]

I dont agree with this logic... this more sounds like Nuclear Blackmail... like..we will send and support terrorists (knowingly or unknowingly) ..but india shldn't do anything... what the hell is this?

Pakistan..ask for unconditional talk...but asking for such a talk itself..is a big condition...IF pak has certain requirement for talk..then why not india ?

Overall., one hard reality...yes we can't do much about Pak, unless otherwise they totally cut loose their beloved terrorists...

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I do not agree fully with the logic,

The paper does not deny such attacks will not happen from Pakistan which is against so called Pakistan's official position.
India is better prepared for Mumbai type attacks and there will be a sure shot response next time. Last time the response was held back. I am afraid no Indian government can survive without surgical military response next time. Even the present Indian government is compelled to take tough stance against such attacks.

My dear get ur facts right, Indians first said that Lakhvi was master mind now thye have shifted their Claim to JuD chief, here another factor comes into play, there is not enough proof to convict JuD chief & moreover JuD has been involved in lot social work in Pakistan, well it be Earth quake of 2005 or recent IDP problem, then they have schools for orphans & the list goes on, with these many good things they are doing its not that simple to keep some one in custody, there is a public factor involved here, when there is just a 'cosmetic dossier' to convict him & Indians keep shifting the title of 'mastermind', India needs to provide more proof so that some one can be convicted
& yes after 26/11 i was hearing from every Channel & every Indian that unlike those parliament attacks this time there will be response coz Gov is under pressure from Public & Bla Bla, & Indian Media which was is a part of Problem rather than solution was discussing the military options, Bomb Mureedk, Commando action along LoC & god know what else, Indians need to understand that talks are the way out, putting conditions is now way out,what are we going to do if we won't talk push each other back to the stone age, Indian leaders must also take into account the the commitments made in Sharm Al Sheikh, how easily Indian establishment has turned away from its commitments

 

[Spitfighter]

I'm not sure how anyone could agree with a word this guy has said. He's obviously in too deep and has no clue where he is going with his assessment.

For the millionth time, Nuclear weapons are NOT halwa. Both the Indian and Pakistani nuclear arsenal is based on deterrence and NOT on war fighting i.e, they serve to complicate the opponents strategy when it comes to conventional war and make unconventional (NBC) war too 'expensive'. Therefore, when the launch button is pressed the war has been lost, because the idea of deterrence is to keep the war from happening in the first place (counter intuitive, I know, google it up)

Consider this, what options will Pakistan have left AFTER it has initiated nuclear war? expect the international community to step in and stop India? who would be willing to come in the way? China? (hint: '71, '99) It may surprise some of you, but we have nukes too.

Nuclear weapons cannot prevent a conventional war. So if that helped you sleep better at night, sorry.

Consider the author's own assessment, if India retaliates, Pakistan joins hands with the terrorists, gets hammered by the Indian military, uses nukes, and ends up committing national suicide. The war on terror will be compromised, the terrorists will gain ground in Pakistan, and the country would be torn to shreds.

Pakistan won't press the losing button so easily, this is meant to comfort Pakistanis into thinking that they are permanently shielded by their nuclear arsenal. One shouldn't underestimate their enemy. India is busy ramping up its military capabilities, I would think that a military the size & strength of India's is capable of doing some serious damage. India might not realize its dreams of becoming a global power, , but we'll still be here to try again tomorrow.

In spite of realizing the gravity of the situation, what credible action has Pakistan taken against terrorists? besides those that target your own security forces? The onus of change is upon Pakistan, the threat is emanating from your soil and thus the solution should also come from within your borders before someone else gets dragged into the mess. Kashmir will not be solved anytime soon, its taken us 6 decades to get here. Kashmir cannot be a prerequisite to peace, peace is a prerequisite to Kashmir, there is no other way. No self respecting country would ever cede to terrorists.

Plausible deniability worked for a while. Time's up.

 

[R.A.W.]

I think if Pakistan is not capable enough to take its non state actors out from Indian aggression then war is not the solution. Indian should start the covert operations within Pakistan without hurting the interests of public and government interests of Pakistan.

India cannot sit ideal with government of Pakistan raising their hands for non state actors at one end and blackmailing on nuclear half at the other end. We need to take them out before they fancy out something new.

May be this is the new tool by Pakistan to get the Kashmir into picture once again. If Pakistan thinks that they can blackmail India to solve Kashmir issue else the attacks will continue then I think they are misinformed.

But the only thing which should be kept in mind is that people of Pakistan has nothing to do with it. So they should not be the targets for the same. If they are non state actors they are required to be taken out either with the co-operation of government of Pakistan or without that.


now the question arises what should India if the government of Pakistan itself is trying to protect them as in case of Hafeez Saed which I feel is more of protection against India rather then in arrest.

 

[blueoval79]

'What can India do if there's another 26/11? Nothing!'​

Najam Sethi, editor-in-chief of Pakistan's Daily Times and Friday Times newspapers and one of that country's most influential journalists, has said that even if there is another Mumbai-type terrorist attack that emanates from his soil, there is absolutely nothing India can do, and warned that if India launches a military strike, there would be all-out war that would de-stabilise the entire region and have an adverse impact on India's quest to be a global power.

In an interaction with leading think-tanks and scholars, who focus on the subcontinent, and heads of South Asia programmes hosted by the Asia Programme of the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars, Sethi said there was no guarantee that there could not be another Mumbai [ Images ] "because many of these former non-State actors, which became State actors, are now back to their non-State actor role -- some of them fairly autonomous."

Arguing that India's demand that the composite dialogue cannot be resumed unless and until there is a crackdown on some of these elements as 'unreasonable', he said: "It took 30 years to make these non-State actors effective and they are not going to be disbanded and demilitarised overnight. It will take a long time. And it will take a transition period in which Indo-Pakistan relations have to get into conflict-resolution mode."

Sethi, whose reporting has frequently put him at odds with successive governments as well as with extremist religious and militant groups, and who was recently awarded the 2009 Golden Pen of Freedom -- the annual freedom prize of the World Association of Newspapers -- said: "The tragedy is that while we prepared to accept India's position before the election, it is very inexplicable why India is persisting with this position right now."

"It is hurtful to the cause of democracy in Pakistan, it is hurtful to the cause of Indo-Pak relations, it is hurtful to the cause of finding solutions in Afghanistan because India and Pakistan are fighting their proxy wars all over the place and because India already has a huge footprint in North Afghanistan and the Indian consulates are doing their bit there," he said.

Sethi said, "Therefore, this is something that India and Pakistan have to come to grips with and America has to weigh in discreetly if necessary to get a dialogue moving again and to get some conflict resolution done."

"The Indian and Pakistani proxy wars are spoiling the terrain completely," he reiterated, "and there is a mindset in Pakistan, especially in the Pakistan Army [ Images ] that finds this unacceptable."

He said consequently, "When we say we want the composite dialogue with India to continue -- to get on with and want the back-channel activated -- we don't want any conditions put on the composite dialogue."

Sethi said, "We find it inexplicable that a Congress government that is flushed with victory, still finds it difficult to get on with it, still is having to defend its commitments made in Sharm-el-Sheikh and that the Indian media is not part of the solution, it is still part of the problem just as the Pakistani media was part of the problem some time ago. Indian nationalism is still coming in the way."

He asserted, "If America wants Pakistan to cooperate and find solutions within Pakistan on terrorism, on domestic violence, on the economy, then we need peace on our borders. We can't have peace on our borders if the first thought that comes to India is, if there is another Mumbai."

"If there's another Mumbai, what then," he asked and said, there is no way India can launch military strikes.

"What could they do? The nuclear deterrent is alive and kicking, it's in place."

Sethi said, "Therefore, if another Mumbai happens, what does India do? Nothing. India can't do anything."

"If India does something, we are in very deep trouble. Therefore, we have to find a solution that makes that (another) Mumbai doesn't happen, and if it does -- because there's lots of non-state actors are there who are not listening to the Pakistani military and even less so to the Pakistani opposition and Pakistani government, what if another Mumbai happens? What will India do -- will this dialogue be derailed forever? Will the terrorists succeed in driving that wedge? Will the terrorists stop the road from Delhi [ Images ] to Islamabad [ Images ] and the road from Islamabad to Kabul?"

Sethi said, "It is in India's interest to build peace with Pakistan, because if India doesn't build peace with Pakistan, then we will fall into the Mumbai trap. Then India would have to take action, there will be war."

"If there is war, the war on terror will get lost and the terrorists will become part of Pakistan's arsenal against India," he warned.

Sethi recalled, "We saw a glimpse of that when Mumbai happened. The first thing the Taliban [ Images ] did was that they said we are going to stop fighting the Pakistani army and we are going to come to the border and fight with the Pakistani army against India in the event of an Indian strike."

"That is the danger of India not defining its interests in a particular way," he said.

Sethi argued that "if there is a war between India and Pakistan, India's economy and that whole notion of a resurgent India that is going to be the new emergent power, that's all going to get lost. We are talking nuclear weapons here and there's no way the Pakistani army is going to allow India to walk in or even to be humiliated."

"The entire political galaxy of Pakistan, including the people of Pakistan are going to line up solidly behind the Pakistani army on this one," he said.

And, Sethi added, "We are not talking of an army of a 100,000 people. We are talking of an army and a mindset in Pakistan -- a 60-year-old mindset in Pakistan, a national security State was that built on the basis of an enemy without, on the border. And, that's not going to change so quickly."

"So, if there is conflict with India, it will be an all-out conflict. I say that with full responsibility. I don't wish to say it, but I have seen it at very close quarters," he said.

"How the entire media, the entire opposition and even the Taliban suddenly folded right behind the Pakistani army on the mere mention of a threat of war with India."

Sethi, continued to hammer away saying that consequently, "It is in India's interest also to resolve some of these disputes, build trust with Pakistan. Give the new civilian dispensation the space and the opportunity to turn some of these things back."

"Therefore, this government needs space. We need to give Pakistan the space in which its interests can be protected with out crumbling from within," he said.

'Another 26/11? There's nothing India can do!': Rediff.com news

------------------------

Very realistic and pragmatic assessment from a man largely considered liberal, pro-peace and 'anti-establishment' in Pakistan and often highly critical of the military.

Dil ke khush rakhne ko, Ghalib yeh khayal achha hai......

 

[R.A.W.]

My dear get ur facts right, Indians first said that Lakhvi was master mind now thye have shifted their Claim to JuD chief, here another factor comes into play, there is not enough proof to convict JuD chief & moreover JuD has been involved in lot social work in Pakistan, well it be Earth quake of 2005 or recent IDP problem, then they have schools for orphans & the list goes on, with these many good things they are doing its not that simple to keep some one in custody, there is a public factor involved here, when there is just a 'cosmetic dossier' to convict him & Indians keep shifting the title of 'mastermind', India needs to provide more proof so that some one can be convicted
& yes after 26/11 i was hearing from every Channel & every Indian that unlike those parliament attacks this time there will be response coz Gov is under pressure from Public & Bla Bla, & Indian Media which was is a part of Problem rather than solution was discussing the military options, Bomb Mureedk, Commando action along LoC & god know what else, Indians need to understand that talks are the way out, putting conditions is now way out,what are we going to do if we won't talk push each other back to the stone age, Indian leaders must also take into account the the commitments made in Sharm Al Sheikh, how easily Indian establishment has turned away from its commitments

See do you think will India be able to trust Pakistan with the kind of attacks and infiltration continues from the other sides of border. When we talked peace last time there was Kargil and mind it It was Pakistan who was occupying Indian peaks..

If the government of Pakistan is not able to or is incompetent enough to do the job then they should allow the other country to do the cleaning their mess. At the end of the it is India which is suffering because of it not Pakistan. When people are killed in India what should we do go to Pakistan and say "Oh our people died.. No issues lets talk and sort out Kashmir"

 

[R.A.W.]

At the end of the day Indians do not want any territory of Pakistan but we have to strike within Pakistan if government of Pakistan fails to control its puppets. But one thing should be kept in mind that the civilian damage should be minimum.... this would be war against these non state actors nor with the people or government of Pakistan

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I think if Pakistan is not capable enough to take its non state actors out from Indian aggression then war is not the solution. Indian should start the covert operations within Pakistan without hurting the interests of public and government interests of Pakistan.

India cannot sit ideal with government of Pakistan raising their hands for non state actors at one end and blackmailing on nuclear half at the other end. We need to take them out before they fancy out something new.

May be this is the new tool by Pakistan to get the Kashmir into picture once again. If Pakistan thinks that they can blackmail India to solve Kashmir issue else the attacks will continue then I think they are misinformed.

But the only thing which should be kept in mind is that people of Pakistan has nothing to do with it. So they should not be the targets for the same. If they are non state actors they are required to be taken out either with the co-operation of government of Pakistan or without that.


now the question arises what should India if the government of Pakistan itself is trying to protect them as in case of Hafeez Saed which I feel is more of protection against India rather then in arrest.

Are all the RAW ppl like u, start Covert Operations
ISI will sit & see u ppl doing Covert operations isn't it, seems u are infected by those TV Channels which run programs by title 'enough is enough'
Kashmir will be brought into picture at all costs, whats the problem with it? Go for its solution, If India think that it can keep kashmir aside & talk, then GoI is pretty much wrong, Kashmir will be discussed & highlighted on every forum
now the question arises according to India who is master mind, there is duality here is as well, First master mind was Lakhvi & now Mastermind is Hafiz Saeed, Strange

 

[DaRk WaVe]

At the end of the day Indians do not want any territory of Pakistan but we have to strike within Pakistan if government of Pakistan fails to control its puppets. But one thing should be kept in mind that the civilian damage should be minimum.... this would be war against these non state actors nor with the people or government of Pakistan

What!!! last them peace talks were going on i heard u ppl put claim on Gilgit & northern areas, don't lie plz

Man if people in RAW are like u then hats off for u, look here people we have got a person talking about covert operations even he has sorted out that there must be minimum 'collateral damage'
you think Pakistan will let go ur Covert ops & surgical strikes, come on man have some sense, please

this would be war against these non state actors nor with the people or government of Pakistan

hmmmmm