India army chief calls for Pakistan nuclear cap

[paritosh]

It is india that wants to be superpower... Both China and Pakistan are hardly busy with getting titles. So if crazy India wants to act stupid it will get what it shoudl get. India is hostile and dangerous. Uour not patriotic but nationalistic. Care to change your name?

nobody gives you the title of a superpower...so it doesnt involve your getting busy in pursuing it...it's a ploy used by the political parties of india to stem and instigate people into electing them.
i remeber BJp going gaga about it while congress sticked to the "aam admi" image.
india is hostile and dangerous...no it is not.We were enjoying a period of good relations before ajmal kasab came calling.

and what is wrong with my name...it neither means nationalistic nor does it mean patriotic...bot of which are foolish vices.
at best call me an anthropologist.

 

[Xeric]

Yup especially when I see funny posts which become too difficult to digest!

Ya truth is sometimes difficult to digest, no doubts!

At the same time, we supposedly know associated structures in the region of the balls you are talking. In short, quite a lot of sensitive area of yours we have idea of

Source: courtesy Pakistan Army

Ooooooo...!! that sends shivers down my spin!!

So when are you preempting and bowing them up?!

I know the details. Thank you very much. Not talking with a novice here be rest assured.

Yeah right!
i can understand the level of indian nuke security that even a doc (tom,dick and harry) knows the details and considers himself as an expert on indian nuclear safety!

Hats off!

Ever heard of building a concept and working on it which requires a foundation? were you even able to appreciate what that point was meant to be? I seriously doubt it.

Useless, doesnt merit a reply!

Ah atleast am not a Military Professional you see, who gets stuck at a certain point as the inherent training does not allow them to see at a point beyond their immediate visual axis

Refer above!

Ok here we come to the point. Now you mean to imply you have not dispersed your weapons components, so you mean to imply they are in ready to use assembled state. Neither have you kept them away from a delivery vehicle (read missiles/ACs etc lest you talk about Mazdas here !!!) so you have mated missiles waiting, nor have you installed electronic measures to further secure them which need authentication before deployment from a political authority in addition to the COAS, so in short , you have your section commanders calling the shots here?

Keep up the guess work!! It may lead you to our nukes.

Or have you sent your weapons to Mars?

May be!

Now I can understand why your weapons are foolproof!!!

You bet!

There are only so many ways you can secure weapons,

And you know them all!! right?
Think again!

especially in conditions where the loyalty of troops and the officer cadre is suspect!!

Oh so you are referring to the IA here? Thnx for the clarfiction.

So stop with the crap of using your services background to try and being an absolute authority.

Well if you being a non-military boast around on being an 'expert' on Pakistan and indian nukes, atleast give me some credit for being in the uniform!

You are certainly not sir.

From did you came to know that i have to prove my authority to an indian?

And yes I know lot of aspects of the secure measures can not be discussed on public/private forums, so am not asking you to. But at the same time, dont take the other person to be a novice as he is a "Doc", that is all.

Yes i can see the 'expertise'!!

Point to be noted, read my line again. What the hell are holding troops? A different force from an attacking force? Dont give me discourse on joint CI ops please. I know the intricacies of the same very well. The statement is clear, its the PA which is taking the offensive and the ground and FC is holding it (and you know the roles of holding forces so lets stop jesting over who has a bigger size here)

Hey doc dont teach me holding and striking, it is us who are fighting the war, not you, so please spare us the BS! Dont dare to tell us what falls completely in our domain.
You getting screwed in Kashmir did give us enough evidence of your coin experience!

Propaganda? Anything that discomfits you, you guys call it propoganda. We called Swat treaty as grave mistake - its a propaganda, Talibs are law abiding citizens holding legitimate demands of imposition of sharia thats all!! And you gave same shite to us that time too blah blah, blah blah and blah blah, yet you see where you landed, wait further ..... and forever, who cares?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Undermining would be visible if there were steps initiated to bolster the Talibs who are fighting your forces.

Any such steps would not be overt and announced to the world, so it may still be the case, as in Baluchistan.

However it is still true that the COAS is attempting to undermine Pakistan by suggesting that the international community act to stop Pakistan's nuclear weapons development.

Though he's a week or so late with his comments - they would have had far more effect and received more publicity had they been aired at the height of the media campaign against Pakistan's Plutonium program expansion. They sort of got lost in the furor over NK's test and other events. But the intention to undermine Pakistan internationally was clear.

In additionally, the problem is not how good is your C & C, or how effective your security electronics are, but the pro-Talib sentiment which is held by some personnel inspite of anything ....... and this you can not pooh-paah in your usual style as even your Prez was forced to admit the same and he declared that PA has been purged of pro-Talib officers!!

Using Musharraf's comments in isolation, without understanding the context of his comments, to bolster your argument is disingenuous. Pro-Taliban officers does not automatically mean that those officers were secretly aiding and abetting the Taliban, despite the GoP's decision to stop that support. It likely implied that he removed officers that continued to disagree with the GoP's policy to stop supporting the Taliban.

Were there possibly 'rogues' who willfully disregarded the official policy? Certainly possible, but what nation or military does not have that problem? Spies and traitors exist everywhere.

So incase a nutter of that lot gets into your inner circle, it shall be fun for all involved. So while you are laughing at it now, as you laughed at our denouncing the SWAT deal, you may well regret the same along similar lines (and I hope not)!

The chances of a 'nutter' getting into the inner circle are probably lower than that of a Hindutva extremist nutter getting into the IA's inner circle.

Actually, most informed commentators (including myself) agreed with the Swat deal while acknowledging that it had little chance of success given past Taliban 'deal breaking'. However, it was a necessary last attempt to negotiate a non-military solution to the insurgency, and I still support it.

Note that had it not been for the NAR being implemented, there would not be the massive political and popular consensus and support for the Military operations being conducted right now, and the Taliban threat would not be as widely condemned as it is right now.

Implementing the NAR accomplished in weeks (with help from the Taliban's desire to publicize their 'faith' through video's) that which the GoP had struggled to do for years. So I see the entire process of implementing the NAR differently than you, for the reasons mentioned, and therfore do not see how it in any way bolsters your COAS's rather uninformed and whiny argument about Pakistan's nuclear program.

 

[fatman17]

Warning to all: Mr. Hellfire's main objective is to Bait & Goad the pak forum members - the best way is to ignore this guy!

 

[afriend]

Pakistan is highlighting its WMD development as a deterrence to india. Which indirectly indicates to the acceptance by Pakistan that india is much bigger economically and militarily and they doubt that they stand a chance in the conventional warfare.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/27533-pak-survived-after-26-11-due-nukes-expert.html
However I would like a scenario where in you put more efforts in modernising your existnig conventional warfare and defence capabilities rather than going for WMD. India/Pakistan/China should all come together and take lead to initiate a global movement towards complete nuclear disarmament..!! Coz all knows WMD is distructive..!!! And i am proud that India stands out of the pack by advocating complete nuclear disarmament..!!! So our concerns are genuine as the concern of any other ordinary Pakistani citizen regarding this issue..!!!!

And to add to it, it was nice to see reports of india/pakistan/china coming together to block a move by the west to intervene in srilanka..!! We need more such cooperation among ourselves.!!!

 

[muse]

WTF
Pakistan can secure India-like civil N-deal with US: Reidel




Monday, June 01, 2009
NEW YORK: US President Barack Obama’s key Adviser on South Asia Bruce Riedel has said Pakistan, too, can secure a civil nuclear deal with the US, similar to what Washington recently had with India, but it will need certain assurances from Islamabad to qualify for the same.

Riedel, in his article published in The Wall Street Journal, said Pakistan needed to show that the days of AQ Khan, Kargil and Mumbai were over for good and that it was addressing all the challenges it faced.

He said Pakistan must fulfil the pledge, made by President Asif Ali Zardari, of not using nuclear weapons first, back on the table with India. Besides, Islamabad should also sign the CTBT first without demanding the Indian adherence, Riedel added.

The former CIA officer said Pakistan must also assure the international community that it was working sincerely to counter extremism emanating from its soil that was creating troubles for India and threatening the entire world. “Pakistan’s arsenal works and it does not need to test again,” Riedel said.

Throughout the article, he projects India as an innocent victim of Pakistan’s excesses, conveniently ignoring its aggressions against Pakistan, its oppression against the Kashmiri people and its attempts to establish hegemony in the region. Riedel lauded India for the “remarkable restraint it showed in response to the provocation from Pakistan.

 

[Hellfire]

Warning to all: Mr. Hellfire's main objective is to Bait & Goad the pak forum members - the best way is to ignore this guy!

thank you sir!!

 

[iioal malik]

i really want pak army to test shaheen3 in up coming weeks.. so all these retards shut up...

 

[Hellfire]

AgNoStIc MuSliM

However it is still true that the COAS is attempting to undermine Pakistan by suggesting that the international community act to stop Pakistan's nuclear weapons development.

I totally agree, although its not undermining but bringing diplomatic pressure to further underscore the need for Pakistan to act strongly on all fronts in its WoT by fanning the fear of US and West over the safety of its nuclear arsenal in wake of multiple internal threats.

Using Musharraf's comments in isolation, without understanding the context of his comments, to bolster your argument is disingenuous.

AM, I had given a link of Zardari's statement, who has tried to maintain a transparent operative style (atleast for internationally relevant issues) and has been backed by PA COAS at every step in this endeavour. As such, the same I think need not be reposted.


Pro-Taliban officers does not automatically mean that those officers were secretly aiding and abetting the Taliban, despite the GoP's decision to stop that support. It likely implied that he removed officers that continued to disagree with the GoP's policy to stop supporting the Taliban.


Agreed. PA is a professional force and as such its highly difficult for an officer to sway irrespective of his private views. However, it does tend to give a certain insecurity to issues in an overall picture. But there have been enough instances as reported by US and evidence presented to the higher echelons of GoP about complicity of ISI in outfits fighting the US in Afghanistan, so I think the relevance is there, even if it may not seem urgent.


The chances of a 'nutter' getting into the inner circle are probably lower than that of a Hindutva extremist nutter getting into the IA's inner circle.

Yes. Speculative from my side too I agree.


Note that had it not been for the NAR being implemented, there would not be the massive political and popular consensus and support for the Military operations being conducted right now, and the Taliban threat would not be as widely condemned as it is right now.

Implementing the NAR accomplished in weeks (with help from the Taliban's desire to publicize their 'faith' through video's) that which the GoP had struggled to do for years. So I see the entire process of implementing the NAR differently than you, for the reasons mentioned, and therfore do not see how it in any way bolsters your COAS's rather uninformed and whiny argument about Pakistan's nuclear program.

Totally agree with you here but still I stress that you have to take COAS IA's comments as a part of overall strategy to pressurise Pakistan in order to ensure it does not wane in its resolve. No one, not even in wildest dreams, can expect Pakistan to give up or roll back its nuclear program, its pretty much a legitimate program and one totally based upon national needs. And as such any intent towards same is useless.

 

[Omar1984]

I thought India would've figured it out by now that Pakistan is the only South Asian country that doesn't give a crap what India says. Now Sri Lanka doesn't give a crap about what India says either.

 

[Hellfire]

I thought India would've figured it out by now that Pakistan is the only South Asian country that doesn't give a crap what India says. Now Sri Lanka doesn't give a crap about what India says either.

Sir

Actually, that is debatable. LTTE was finished because India cut it off completely and Intelligence was being provided to SLA in real time by Indian recce flights as also satellite imagery.

Adequate noises were made for public consumption by Tamil regional parties as also GoI which "expressed" concerns. However, this time India did not intervene as LTTE was no longer on India's darling list.

Jaffna Airdrop is historically there, had there been a need, intervention would have taken place. But International Terrorism is a scourge on every nation and as such has to be dealt with in a collective manner.

Thanks

 

[Zob]

i THINK indian COAS is a VERY VERY CONFUSED MAN!!! i guess this video shows his lack of attnetion to the CURRENT SITUATIONS....

the COAS of INDIA has to make bold statements given his POSITION however making bold statements tend to piss off the "enemy" and that i guess is the whole POINT!!

 

[Mujahid91]

i think this should be opposite India Nuclear Program should be CAP because of thier unproffesional CAOS and IAF personal are most of the time drunk and cluelessin thier statement well certainly if a CAOS like this India will surely provoke a Nuclear War Pakistan will lose 170Million people compare to India 1.1billion its not to be taken lightley.

 

[hj786]

hj786

So you have no idea about the security of each country's weapons are, all you have to go on is "they both went to USA to learn." Pakistan has more reasons to keep their arsenal under the best security systems they can come up and vet personnel properly than India does. USA, Israel and India don't like Pak having nukes and the first two have renowned intelligence institutions.

Well its like going to school, you have your basics and then you work through them.
So the point was about basics. Have even given you the name of the officers in this case, so apparently am not talking out of my hat or in blind, or without having some idea of what am talking about.
You can check up on the veracity of the concerned officer, he was in Somalia in UN and was posted as representative to UN under Musharraf if you have any suspicion that I have named an individual out of air
Contention of having better security in place was taken up and challenged, and your rebuttal was a poor excuse at one here.

All you have to go on is "a PA officer attended a US institution." Yes you are talking blind.
If you believe China gave Pakistan that nuclear arsenal, why isn't their command and control system implemented in Pakistan?

So how do you choose whether to believe what he says or not? He said Pakistan has no first-strike policy and you know that's BS. Why would they ever allow radicals to get inside, the first target could well be Pakistan's military institutions.

Infact he said it for Pakistan has reportedly developed a second strike policy, something now that they find is more conducive and in sync with image of a responsible nuclear power.
This has increased Pakistani defence posturing vis-a-vis India and has further underlined the end of any threat of a full scale conventional warfare.
A head of state does not make stupid statements and that includes your own Head of state.

Read this for your pleasure:

Pak develops second-strike N-capability - US - World - The Times of India

What are you talking about? I was referring to this: Asif Ali Zardari delights India with 'no first strike' policy | The Australian


Because those defences probably wouldn't work anyway.

Because there is something called kill probability which will be degraded due to MIRVs, not because of your ridiculous idea above. Ever heard of "swarm" concept in ABM defences? I doubt it So if you have any idea of the same, accept that and stop posting just for the heck of posting and being "in action"!

What ridiculous idea? Those defences have never been tested in battle and there is no evidence whatsoever they would work against a modern manoeuvrable/MIRV warhead using ECM and decoys, never mind a saturation attack.

 

[Hellfire]

What ridiculous idea? Those defences have never been tested in battle and there is no evidence whatsoever they would work against a modern manoeuvrable/MIRV warhead using ECM and decoys, never mind a saturation attack.

Actually the header about Zardari delighting India, was first public indicator that Pakistan is confident of surviving a first strike against its nuclear sites.

Also at the same time, an implied no first strike policy, while officially maintaining a public posture of first strike, is conducive for Pakistan to project itself as a responsible nuclear power, something which shall eventually see it being given a status as such.

At the same time, the specific name of the officer was mentioned to stress that posts may not necessarily be baseless in my case

Evolution of SOPs is independent undoubtedluy but few basics always remain the same irrespective of the region/country involved.

Also, speculative discussions are on in every thread. Even your accepted superiority in missile systems is "on paper" and not tested.

Every weapon system is conceptualised and then given certain parameters under test conditions. And we all know those tend to vary in actual field deployments.

Even your Brazilian made BVRs will not necessarilly be successful as opposed to tested Russian origin Indian BVRs.

Definitely in swarm concept multiple Air Defence missiles will be launched against an identified MIRV vehicle with aim to intercept the MIRVs ..... how many are eventually intercepted is at best a guess always.