India and NSG-News, Updates and Discussions.

[Dungeness]

I am even more impressed you had the audacity to draw a comparison between Israeli-Palestine HR violation UN votes and Pakistan's NSG membership on a Pak forum, Amazing Chutzpah .

Not surprising since you even went as far as using racial slurs on Pakistanis here.

This is a pretty dirty "below belt" from an "Elite Member" of PDF. I have never used any kind of racial slur to our Pakistan friends here and anywhere, because there is none in China. In Chinese defense forums, we refer Pakistan as "Ba Tie", meaning "Pakistan Iron Brothers". If that particular term you are referring to were considered "racial slur", it was directed to some of your countrymen, and you know that too. Cheap shot!

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Maybe China was hoping to give India some time to put its act together in 2008? But you guys keep bragging about "China Killer", and finally pissed China leaders off this time around?

Actually not, as per American diplomats, China huffed and puffed against India's NSG waiver as well.

But eventually submitted to American pressure,
This part remains a big global mystery, how did great CCP leadership get get bullied into allowing India to have a larger nuclear arsenal, that too by the her main opponent Americans?
I mean what dirty little secret did the Americans threaten to reveal about the Hu Jintao, that he threw his nation under the bus for it?

Or maybe CCP grew a conscience and believed they deserved it

 

[Great Sachin]

Pakistan also filed application for NSG....how many countries supported Pakistan?..any idea

 

[forcetrip]

Hypocrisy is also when the Chinese ask India to adhere to NPT but they themselves violated by helping Pakistan in nuclear know how.

And america making way for India to be in NSG isn't about hypocrisy, but about reality.

The fathers of nuclear stuff - UK,France,US,Germany and Russia-all have favored India's membership. If the world knows anything about nuclear stuff, it is because of these nations, and the ones who are objecting to India, are the ones who merely followed the foot steps of these nations.

When all the fathers of nuclear stuff are supporting India's membership, it is only a matter of time before India becomes a member of NSG, rest of the opposition are bunch of jokers (except china).

India has come a long way in scientific and technological growth, it will only keep moving forward from here. There are multi billion dollar worth industrial houses in India which are now capable of designing and manufacturing extremely complex sub systems for nuclear stuff. Pakistan is light years behind India in Industrial and scientific fields...

The west recognized India's growth in industrial and scientific fields, only then it realized that it was better to put India under NSG guidelines than to not, and hence the NSG waiver. The NSG waiver didn't come for free nor it was about giving exotic nuclear stuff to India, rather it was about to bring unrestricted India under restrictions and demand strict standards of control on stuff. By securing NSG waiver for India, the US ensured that potential new global power will be an ally for US in the future.

The US didn't bend the rules for India at NSG waiver, rather it was India's growth and rise in economic, scientific and industrial fields that changed the minds of policy makers in the west to make India it's ally.

If India was in Pakistan's position-- with no economic power, with almost non-existent scientific and technological sectors--Americans would have never bothered to offer NSG waiver to India. And that is why they are not offering any such sort of NSG waiver to Pakistan right now.

And the talk of "India and Pakistan becoming NSG members simultaneously" is a joke to begin with.... it is only a matter of time before India becomes member of NSG

I would suggest we keep to facts instead of spinning stories of the maybe's. If there were facts of nuclear proliferation done by China it would not be in that seat denying NSG membership to India. Your attitude of calling other countries a bunch of jokers shows what kind of caliber you will have in real world arguments. Your science and technology has already put one of your nuclear reactors leaking by the papers lately. I am not sure what reality you are referring to but as the rules suggest if there is no signed NPT then there is no admission to the NSG. It does not matter how much of this so called science and technology you are flaunting with these nuclear sub system stuff. Lets see what this matter of time is. I will be here. India will never get into the NSG till the rules of membership are changed while China is sitting in that seat. What needs to be discussed and debated is how to change the rules to get into NSG without signing the NPT. Hence the word Hypocrisy.

 

[Dungeness]

Actually not, as per American diplomats, China huffed and puffed against India's NSG waiver as well.

But eventually submitted to American pressure,
This part remains a big global mystery, how did great CCP leadership get get bullied into allowing India to have a larger nuclear arsenal, that too by the her main opponent Americans?
I mean what dirty little secret did the Americans threaten to reveal about the Hu Jintao, that he threw his nation under the bus for it?

Maybe CCP grew a conscience and believed they deserved it

Actually, most Chinese except those who frequent defense forum don't really care about news about India that much. Announcing China agreed to or objected to the waiver for India on the matter of NSG doesn't really matter to everyday folks. You guys like to overestimate your importance. Chinese people's opinion maybe split on America, but they are pretty uniform about India.

You are right on one thing though, XJP administration is a little tougher than the previous one. Hey, China's size is there, it doesn't have to take shit anymore.

 

[Mufflerman]

That is very cute. Did "most Chinese" just give you mandate to speak for them?

Yes. Though if you could comprehend the language, you wouldn't conclude that I was speaking on behalf of Chinese. Bot.

Actually, most Chinese except those who frequent defense forum don't really care about news about India that much. Announcing China agreed to or objected to the waiver for India on the matter of NSG doesn't really matter to everyday folks. You guys like to overestimate your importance. Chinese people's opinion maybe spit on America, but they are pretty uniform about India.

You are right on one thing though, XJP administration is a little tougher than the previous one. Hey, China's size is there, it doesn't have to take shit anymore.

Yeah Chinese don't care about India,maybe true.

But CCP is shitting bricks cause it expended it's entire diplomatic core to stop India's membership. You guys must be exhausted. Guess who will look like idiots when the group finally cracks?

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Pakistan also filed application for NSG....how many countries supported Pakistan?..any idea

Two: Turkey and China

 

[Great Sachin]

Two: Turkey and China

I just read that Pakistan application was not even considered

 

[Dungeness]

Yeah Chinese don't care about India,maybe true.

But CCP is shitting bricks cause it expended it's entire diplomatic core to stop India's membership. You guys must be exhausted. Guess who will look like idiots when the group finally cracks?

nay, China doesn't have to. China has more important thing to do. NSG membership is very important for India somehow, but it is a non issue for China. Chinese people don't care.

Good night, India friends. Nice talking to you guys.

 

[Mufflerman]

nay, China doesn't have to. China has more important thing to do. NSG membership is very important for India somehow, but it is a non issue for China. Chinese people don't care.

Good night, India friends. Nice talking to you guys.

The whole world saw the Chinese envoy whining for 2 full days bot. Yea now run away.

 

[for truth]

I would suggest we keep to facts instead of spinning stories of the maybe's. If there were facts of nuclear proliferation done by China it would not be in that seat denying NSG membership to India. Your attitude of calling other countries a bunch of jokers shows what kind of caliber you will have in real world arguments. Your science and technology has already put one of your nuclear reactors leaking by the papers lately. I am not sure what reality you are referring to but as the rules suggest if there is no signed NPT then there is no admission to the NSG. It does not matter how much of this so called science and technology you are flaunting with these nuclear sub system stuff. Lets see what this matter of time is. I will be here. India will never get into the NSG till the rules of membership are changed while China is sitting in that seat. What needs to be discussed and debated is how to change the rules to get into NSG without signing the NPT. Hence the word Hypocrisy.

And facts is what i stated..

few months back there was thread about India being one of the top countries in publishing scientific publications, may be that will do for you? Or how about the fact that every year dozens of Pakistanis visit India for health care because of unavailability of sophisticated health care in Pakistan, how about this? Did I "flaunt" enough of science stuff? Oh, did i mention ISRO too? the mars mission of India proved to world that Indians are now capable of writing complex algorithms and undertake highly complex tasks.....now, was the "flaunting" enough?

As long as you here...India already has been granted the NSG waiver years back despite Chinese opposition, we are already getting nuclear reactors and materials from western powers. Is Pakistan? For a change, rather that talking political stuff do look at look progress of India in other fields, may be then the picture will become clear for you as to why many countries have so openly endorsed India than Pakistan.

But something you failed to understand here is that......... "nobody can stop an idea whose time has come".

It was India's time when we got the waiver, it was India's time to become member of MTCR, and when it's time, India will enter the NSG too...alone

 

[grey boy 2]

Dear Indian friends
Although i personally admire your " It ain't over till its over" efforts
However unfortunately your NSG bid has failed miserably regardless of whatever reasons or excuses
I can feel your "pain"
Perhaps its time to accept the reality its "OVER" and move on, shall we?

 

[SOHEIL]

Indian duplicity and complicity in helping rouge states like NK and Iran are exposed. Indians are already guilty of nuclear proliferation without being NNSG member, think what they will do after they become a member?

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Washington: A US Senator has praised the NSG for deciding against granting India membership of the grouping immediately, after the elite group's plenary meeting ended in Seoul with no decision on India's membership in face of strong China-led opposition.

"Today, the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) reaffirmed its strong support for the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) by refraining from admitting India," Junior Democratic Senator from Massachusetts Edward Markey said in a statement.

The NSG was founded in response to India's 1974 nuclear test and it has worked for decades to prevent the sharing of technology that could contribute to the further spread of nuclear weapons, he said yesterday.

"If India joined the Nuclear Supplier Group, it would be the only participating government in the organisation that was not a party to the NPT, weakening the NSG's commitment to the treaty. By refraining from admitting India, the NSG strengthened both the treaty and the broader global nonproliferation regime," Mr Markey said.

As a member of the US House of Representative, Mr Markey has unsuccessfully led effort to block passage of civil nuclear deal between India and the US. Last month during a Congressional hearing, Mr Markey had opposed India's NSG membership application.

The NSG yesterday ended its plenary meeting in Seoul with no decision on India's membership.

"The NSG plenary in Seoul earlier in the day decided against granting India membership of the grouping immediately and said it will continue to have discussions on participation of countries which have not signed the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty," External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Vikas Swarup said yesterday.

China, which had made no secret of its opposition, succeeded in scuttling India's bid despite a significant majority backing the Indian case. Thirty-eight countries supported India, according to Indian officials.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/us-s...-after-india-failed-to-get-membership-1423232

 

[fsayed]

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