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Modi already warn china of effect on bilateral relations

@Nilgiri

Thanks for the tag. Yah he did.

Like Boycotting Chinese products and trade??

There may be more to it than that. Remember how India finally earlier agreed not to host the Uighur seperatist guy? I'm sure there was diplo-cred trading going on that we didnt know about behind the scenes.

But yeah trade/investment/general relations...slice of N-pie that India has offered to China under the table etc etc.

I mean things like this:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ian-pharma-companies/articleshow/52843226.cms

will basically stop in their tracks

Its win-win for India as far as I see it whatever happens.

We already got the main important thing (NSG waiver). What situation China wants on top of that to exist is in its hands....India can manage quite well with either choice.
 
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well the comment section was hilarious

On Topic
what happened to other countries like Ireland New Zealand South Africa Turkey Brazil etc etc which were against India's entry into NSG???

so if 47 countries agrees and only 1 country isn't you won't get into NSG?? That's pretty Fu**** up..


Yeah fckd up china totally. They are totally isolated. SHAME. everyone is supporting India. :D We will soon become part of NSG else we will find another way. :D
 
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So why wasnt China the lone-dissenting voice for the NSG waiver in 2008 and stop it mightily and independently in its tracks from proceeding to completion?

Was Hu-JinTao really that much of a weakling?

Because we got something in return, the right to build multiple nuclear reactors in Pakistan without NSG approval. :lol:

And India didn't get an NSG seat either. So basically win-win.

And sure, Hu Jintao was a lot more reserved than Xi Jinping.
 
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Because we got something in return, the right to build multiple nuclear reactors in Pakistan without NSG approval. :lol:

You didn't "get" that from agreeing a waiver for India. China decided that on its own later....I mean why hasn't China been up there pushing for a waiver for Pakistan from the NSG? Exactly the reason mentioned earlier: it would prefer not to be the lone voice sounding stupid :P
 
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Umm... why not? :P

Unlike you guys, we don't care what foreigners think, it has zero effect on our policies.


If it serves our national interests to veto it, we'll do it in the blink of an eye. If India offers enough economic concessions though...
Ofc CCP is not answerable to anyone in China,especially its people.so yeah it had zero effect on your policies.

The only concession you will get after India getting support of all the other members is to let China back out of its stand gracefully and not to be seen as gave in under the pressure of isolation,or become alone.

End of the day what was china trying to do or trying to stop us from getting something, we already get what we can get by becoming a the member of NSG.
I feel all this stand by Chian was for nothing.
 
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It might hurt some to know that China gave fuel to India's tarapur reactor in the mid 90s:

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/remember-lessons-from-tarapur/article3039230.ece

the U.S. allowed France to supply fuel to India. Subsequently, the USSR (now Russia) and even China supplied fuel for Tarapur.

Dealing with the Chinese today is basically a question of what they want unofficially. There use of Pakistan equality with India is really just a cover....they have betrayed Pakistan under the table quite a few times already when the price is right (lack of pursuing a waiver for Pakistan, supplying fuel to Tarapur, giving NSG waiver to India).

In fact their lack of pursuing a waiver for Pakistan is especially interesting. It seems they want to a) prevent being the lone supporter of such a waiver b) keep Pakistan a captive market for Chinese nuclear industry (since a waiver would open up the world nuclear market to Pakistan...like it has done for India.)

Similarly China feels that the NSG is where the buck stops, so they can put a fly in the ointment for India as far as competition that India can provide in supplying nuclear technology at cost-effective pricepoints that China currently monopolizes within the NSG-IAEA framework.

Problem for them is that this window wont last too long given the rumours already going around of creating an entirely new grouping of the 47 other members of the NSG + India (and instead of China)....not to mention India can also keep making specific bilateral arrangements (esp if it has the backing of the other main NSG members) in the meantime.

China can only hope to get the best deal it can by letting India into the NSG the way I see it, since they can at least get something from India in return. But hey, if they want to continue on their current track for whatever "face-saving reason"....Napoleon said it best....do not stop your enemy when he is making a mistake :D
 
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oo yaar NSG NSG... koi sharam hey ? divert material for peaceful energy generation to nuclear test in 1974 written officially by your own govt .. and you want NSG membership... leave Pakistan koi begerati koi sharam haya hey ?
 
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So why wasnt China the lone-dissenting voice for the NSG waiver in 2008 and stop it mightily and independently in its tracks from proceeding to completion?

Was Hu-JinTao really that much of a weakling?
Per Andrew Small.
Nearly eight years ago, after being left in a minority of one, China backed down under intense pressure from the United States and acquiesced to the exemption for India in the Nuclear Suppliers’ Group (NSG). With India’s membership up for consideration this week at the NSG’s plenary meeting in Seoul, an outright repeat of these events appears unlikely. In contrast to 2008, when Beijing hid behind other opponents until each and every one of them had been peeled off, this time China has made its position clear. Unless a deal is done in the coming days, most observers are betting that China will stick to its guns. What has changed? And how far is Beijing’s opposition likely to go?

On Monday, China responded to the Indian external affairs minister’s statement that Beijing was not opposed to Indian membership. “The inclusion of non-NPT members has never been a topic on the agenda of NSG meetings. In Seoul this year, there is no such topic,” the Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson said. “We have stressed that the NSG is still divided about non-NPT countries entry into the NSG and under the current circumstances we hope that NSG will make thorough discussions to make a decision based on consultation.”

China’s stance certainly cannot be attributed to any profound attachment to the NSG’s rules. The nuclear plants that China is building in Pakistan may help to address that country’s dire energy situation but no other member of the NSG accepts the claim by Chinese officials that each and every new reactor was “grandfathered” into China’s original membership agreement.

While this violation has not been deemed sufficient to warrant blowing the group up, it has been an ongoing demonstration that China sees the institution through a largely political prism. And Beijing’s position on Indian membership is undoubtedly politically hyphenated: boiled down to its essentials, China is willing to back India’s entry if there is a clear route for Pakistan to join the club too. Beijing did belatedly attempt a similar manoeuvre during the late stages of the negotiations in 2008 but the proposal that Pakistan might be granted a matching exemption to India’s attracted more incredulity than support from other NSG members.

This time, Chinese attempts to push for a conditions-based process that would keep the door open to Pakistan’s future entry elicit greater sympathy. Other countries also have their reservations about an ad hominem approach to membership for non-NPT states. Nonetheless, with the largely successful diplomatic push by the Indian government and its supporters reaching the final stages, it is possible that China will be left as the only hold-out once again.

Under Hu Jintao, that would likely have proved sufficient. China was reluctant to be diplomatically isolated, virtually always seeking some degree of political cover from others. Beijing was wary about going toe-to-toe with Washington on issues deemed to be top-tier strategic priorities, which the NSG waiver certainly was. It had a counter-move in its back pocket too, in the shape of its deal with Pakistan on a new phase of Chashma reactors, an NSG exemption by fiat, from which only its own nuclear industry would benefit. And Beijing was wary of doing too much damage to its bilateral relationship with India for the sake of a Pakistan that was still reeling from the A.Q. Khan proliferation scandal, one in which China was itself implicated – the bomb designs that showed up in Libya, to take just one example, being of Chinese origin. Very few considerations suggested that this was a propitious moment to make a stand, though even then it was a close, last-minute call.

This time, virtually none of these conditions are the same.

President Xi Jinping is a more forceful leader than his predecessor, more comfortable with playing great power politics and less anxious about the repercussions of throwing China’s weight around. The United States has less capacity to press China to change its position, and the dynamics between Washington and Beijing are far more competitive than they were in 2008. U.S. officials, however hard they push, will not be able to repeat the same trick. There is also no obvious back-up plan if China agrees to Indian membership without concomitant assurances about Pakistan’s future position, which, given the requirement for unanimous decision-making at the NSG, could permanently entrench a framework that disadvantages its closest partner. And this time, there is more at stake for China in being seen to stick up for the interests of its Pakistani friends.

China is not about to make a fundamental break with its non-alignment policies but in a context where Beijing is in the process of establishing its first overseas military facilities, and engaging in an intensifying strategic contest with the United States, credibility with friends and quasi-allies matters more than it did. Pakistan has been the surprising pace-setter in Xi Jinping’s “Belt and Road” initiative, and over the last year Chinese intellectuals have taken to describing the country as China’s “one real ally”, with the relationship a “model to follow”. For all the supposed constancy of their “all-weather friendship”, this was not the tone in 2008. Standing up for Pakistan now is not only about the bilateral relationship but also about China’s reliability as a partner, and the demonstration effect in this high stakes case would have resonance well beyond Seoul.

The sole countervailing factor is that China will not want to cause real damage to its relationship with India over the NSG, which matters far more to New Delhi than it does to Beijing. China knows that there would be repercussions for higher-salience issues, such as the South China Sea and the future scope of U.S.-India ties. It will also be uncomfortable about the prospect of its relationships with India and Pakistan being re-coupled at just the moment where it finally appeared to be having some success in developing them along parallel tracks. As a result, Beijing will be looking for an “out” rather than wanting to make a point of its obduracy. But that would require a compromise that will allow China to credibly claim that it has preserved an opening for the Pakistanis, a possibility that is still on the table.

Short of that, no matter how effectively Beijing is diplomatically boxed in, isolation alone is unlikely to prove a sufficient deterrent to China blocking the emerging consensus over Indian membership in the NSG, and last-minute phone calls from the White House will not swing it. The sole reason China would move is because it calculates that the costs to the Sino-Indian relationship outweigh those of being seen as a fair-weather friend
 
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Exactly. Intense pressure from the US (not some quid pro quo involving Chashma grandfathering which was totally independent to it)....I thought China was more resilient than that ...given the way @Chinese-Dragon is going on about their "we will always be able to be lone voice" blah blah.

Whats also funny is that China was loudly braying that the agenda of India's membership was not even on the agenda in Seoul earlier.....but today NSG specifically put a special session to discuss just that. Talk about egg on face. Any comment from China why this was allowed to be brought up for discussion in the first place? Or just hope no one will notice the affront to China's earlier claim?
 
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If Modi went directly to Xi Jinping then he must have made some serious offers.
Something sure is cooking between two.
ModiXi-kDlH--621x414@LiveMint.jpg


& Modi probably is best person for China to engage with!

NEW DELHI: China remained the last major obstacle in the way of India's membership bid in the Nuclear Suppliers Group as 47 of 48 members supported New Delhi's application at the group's special plenary session in Seoul on Thursday.

The session debated until midnight but failed to come to a conclusion after hours of discussions, with China adamant in its opposition. Questions and doubts by other fence-sitting countries dissolved in the course of the evening, leaving China as the last man standing against India. Officials in Seoul said the meeting would restart on Friday. After Thursday's NSG meeting, delegations were asked to revert to their headquarters for fresh instructions.

China raised a procedural block early in the day, refusing to admit the India membership issue to be discussed in the meeting. This, diplomats in the room said, caused a delay of over five hours, as the members wrestled with an agenda item. Finally, it was decided to discuss a heavily worded agenda on "political, legal and technical issues of non-NPT countries' membership. The discussions began at 9pm and ended around midnight, but remained in a deadlock.

Indian officials will be lobbying hard with the members before the meeting begins on Friday morning. The US is also expected to be working the phones on India's behalf.

Earlier Thursday afternoon, PM Narendra Modi delivered a candid message to Chinese President Xi Jinping who he met for a bilateral on the sidelines of the SCO summit in Tashkent. Sources said Modi conveyed to Xi New Delhi's expectation that China would support India in the NSG, a position that suggests that continued opposition will impact ties.

The 45-minute Modi-Xi meeting was almost entirely devoted to the NSG issue and China's opposition. A readout of the meeting was given by official spokesperson Vikas Swarup who said, "PM Modi urged China to make a fair and objective assessment of India's application and judge it on its own merit. He said China should contribute to the emerging consensus in Seoul."

Until late Thursday evening however, Chinese diplomats in Seoul held on to their tough stand against India. Brazil and South Africa, two other members of BRICS, stood behind India, as did Russia. The consensus emerged through the evening's discussions, with countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Austria, even Brazil raising questions on process - but these whittled down to supporting India's candidature. Turkey stuck to its position of supporting India and Pakistan. However, Pakistan's NSG bid was not discussed at length, however the presence of the application was the reason for a lot of discussion on non-NPT countries.

China's continued obduracy raises serious questions in the Indian government about the value of organisations like BRICS, RIC or even BASIC, where India and China are believed to be working together. If China continues with its opposition, sources said there could be consequences for bilateral relations with Beijing, because it would be a direct refusal to an Indian head of the government.

The meeting in Seoul began with the outgoing Argentine chair Rafael Grossi presenting a positive report on India's commitments and compliance. South Korea, which took over the chairmanship of the nuclear cartel steered the discussion on India's membership, said sources.

China's stand might wreck India's chances this time if Beijing continues to hold out. But the fact that India has mounted such a huge diplomatic exercise will play to India's advantage going forward. All eyes now will be on the last minute role that the US and other big supporters of India play on Friday to help bring China around.

Meanwhile, Xi met Pakistan President Mamnoon Hussain in Tashkent, where the two sides reaffirmed their strong bonds, describing themselves as "iron brothers". A Pakistan foreign ministry statement quoted Pak president as saying, "exception given for NSG membership could disturb strategic stability in South Asia."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-NSG-bid-stops-at-China-wall/articleshow/52891969.cms

so if 47 countries agrees and only 1 country isn't you won't get into NSG??
Yes thats how it works, either there is a unanimous consensus or agenda item dropped.
 
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Something sure is cooking between two.
View attachment 313029

& Modi probably is best person for China to engage with!

NEW DELHI: China remained the last major obstacle in the way of India's membership bid in the Nuclear Suppliers Group as 47 of 48 members supported New Delhi's application at the group's special plenary session in Seoul on Thursday.

The session debated until midnight but failed to come to a conclusion after hours of discussions, with China adamant in its opposition. Questions and doubts by other fence-sitting countries dissolved in the course of the evening, leaving China as the last man standing against India. Officials in Seoul said the meeting would restart on Friday. After Thursday's NSG meeting, delegations were asked to revert to their headquarters for fresh instructions.

China raised a procedural block early in the day, refusing to admit the India membership issue to be discussed in the meeting. This, diplomats in the room said, caused a delay of over five hours, as the members wrestled with an agenda item. Finally, it was decided to discuss a heavily worded agenda on "political, legal and technical issues of non-NPT countries' membership. The discussions began at 9pm and ended around midnight, but remained in a deadlock.

Indian officials will be lobbying hard with the members before the meeting begins on Friday morning. The US is also expected to be working the phones on India's behalf.

Earlier Thursday afternoon, PM Narendra Modi delivered a candid message to Chinese President Xi Jinping who he met for a bilateral on the sidelines of the SCO summit in Tashkent. Sources said Modi conveyed to Xi New Delhi's expectation that China would support India in the NSG, a position that suggests that continued opposition will impact ties.

The 45-minute Modi-Xi meeting was almost entirely devoted to the NSG issue and China's opposition. A readout of the meeting was given by official spokesperson Vikas Swarup who said, "PM Modi urged China to make a fair and objective assessment of India's application and judge it on its own merit. He said China should contribute to the emerging consensus in Seoul."

Until late Thursday evening however, Chinese diplomats in Seoul held on to their tough stand against India. Brazil and South Africa, two other members of BRICS, stood behind India, as did Russia. The consensus emerged through the evening's discussions, with countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Austria, even Brazil raising questions on process - but these whittled down to supporting India's candidature. Turkey stuck to its position of supporting India and Pakistan. However, Pakistan's NSG bid was not discussed at length, however the presence of the application was the reason for a lot of discussion on non-NPT countries.

China's continued obduracy raises serious questions in the Indian government about the value of organisations like BRICS, RIC or even BASIC, where India and China are believed to be working together. If China continues with its opposition, sources said there could be consequences for bilateral relations with Beijing, because it would be a direct refusal to an Indian head of the government.

The meeting in Seoul began with the outgoing Argentine chair Rafael Grossi presenting a positive report on India's commitments and compliance. South Korea, which took over the chairmanship of the nuclear cartel steered the discussion on India's membership, said sources.

China's stand might wreck India's chances this time if Beijing continues to hold out. But the fact that India has mounted such a huge diplomatic exercise will play to India's advantage going forward. All eyes now will be on the last minute role that the US and other big supporters of India play on Friday to help bring China around.

Meanwhile, Xi met Pakistan President Mamnoon Hussain in Tashkent, where the two sides reaffirmed their strong bonds, describing themselves as "iron brothers". A Pakistan foreign ministry statement quoted Pak president as saying, "exception given for NSG membership could disturb strategic stability in South Asia."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-NSG-bid-stops-at-China-wall/articleshow/52891969.cms


Yes thats how it works, either there is a unanimous consensus or agenda item dropped.

In a way I think the Chinese are simply pushing back against the speed of whats happening.

I mean just a few days ago, they were saying NSG membership discussion would not even be on the agenda of the Seoul Meeting.

They take face saving very seriously. Modi has time to work all the angles and then put plan B (which is already probably scripted and vetted by India and her friends) to action if that fails.
 
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In a way I think the Chinese are simply pushing back against the speed of whats happening.

I mean just a few days ago, they were saying NSG membership discussion would not even be on the agenda of the Seoul Meeting.

They take face saving very seriously. Modi has time to work all the angles and then put plan B (which is already probably scripted and vetted by India and her friends) to action if that fails.

If every other country is on board, I highy doubt Chinese will object to it, unless they can inject some technicality and stop the process.

That being said, the huge negative PR disaster unfolding in India for Chinese is not something Chinese would under-estimate.

It is one thing to "compete" and other thing to oppose. After their support to terrorist operating against India in UN, which cause a huge backlash in India, I am hoping Chinese are more sensible.
 
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I think this will be one of the defining moments of India -China relationships.
The moment we will analyse decades down the line and say this is the result of our current relationship status, whether positive or negative.

The thing that will worry China is the huge backlash already building in Indian public over China. It would be very easy for current govt to build on this and really make it tough for Chinese to do business in India.

Oh, Indian govt won't ban any Chinese goods or company but they will run a campaign where Indians would neither sell nor but Chinese products.


Unfortunately, everything is made in China. I don't know how anyone can avoid that.

China will most likely stand by her decision. India should push harder for plan "B", India needs a diplomatic win here.
 
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If every other country is on board, I highy doubt Chinese will object to it, unless they can inject some technicality and stop the process.

That being said, the huge negative PR disaster unfolding in India for Chinese is not something Chinese would under-estimate.

It is one thing to "compete" and other thing to oppose. After their support to terrorist operating against India in UN, which cause a huge backlash in India, I am hoping Chinese are more sensible.

Well lets wait and see. I have a feeling Chinese will eventually relent at some time this year. Xi Jinping may have already informed Modi of when so Modi can make the proper decisions and plan for it accordingly.
 
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