India again asks Pakistan for consular access to Kulbhushan Jadhav.

[Chichago_bulls]

He will get the justice written in his destiny. If he was a normal spy (just collecting information) our views would have been less demanding for the death penalty, but he was a murderous terrorist spy (involved in armed destabilisation of a country) bombing civilian targets. He deserves nothing less than a death sentence and hung from the highest pole Pakistan can provide so that his brothers and sisters from across the border can see what happens to Indians who get involved in heinous crimes against humanity.

Well I just said that keyboard warriors or your uniformed generals are not the once to decide that. I guess there is some law and court system in your country ?? Well I'm talking about the standard practice in democratic countries, not some sham democracy.

And I would really pray that you hand him for the highest pole available that too without a fare trail, so that not only India but the would could also see, that will always be in the interest of my country.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Right after India allows any type of access to Bhramdagh bugti or Mullah fazlullah

 

[Jinn Baba]

No consular access until they release our pigeons

 

[BATMAN]

including a chance of Presidential pardon

Is this all related to Zardari's trip to Pakistan?
Let's see how he play his role!

 

[suresh1773]

Man admitted to everything on Pakistan television, so what's the harm in giving him access now?

Forced evidence before a Camera crew cannot be considered as a part of Evidence any where. I have seen the footage of Kulbhasan Yadav,it is nothing but stage managed. Why is Pakistan reluctant to provide UN acess to Kulbushan Yadav.

No country gives "consular access" to spies. Case closed. Move on
Doesn't apply to spies, only POWs

What is there left to spy in Pakistan, literally nothing

 

[Chichago_bulls]

Is this all related to Zardari's trip to Pakistan?
Let's see how he play his role!

Zardari .. who ??

And what are to trying to convey ? Sorry I didn't get you exactly.

 

[Pandora]

To all indians quoting vienna convention which is actually hilarious considering what you genocidal maniacs are doing in Kashmir. So in make a bati and shove it where sun doesnt shine.

 

[Little Falcon]

Rejected!

 

[schoolboy]

Spy or no spy consular access is not a great liberty nor is it any form of pardon or acquittal. It's a bit foolish to peremptorily declare the man an Indian spy but refuse to grant consular access. Consular access is essentially legal assistance from the embassy, not a flight ticket out. He can still be tried in Pakistan, convicted and sentenced .

At the height of the cold war an american CIA pilot was shot down over the USSR and he was granted consular access without much fuss - and that chap was a real spy piloting what was literally a spyplane. The American embassy officially aided his defense in trial (though he was eventually convicted). Later, of course, he was exchanged in a prisoner-swap.

Use of consular access aside, the Indian government has explicitly affirmed that he is an Indian national so there is really no legal reason to continue with this refusal. Others have already pointed out the treaty under which signatories are obliged to do so.

A silly diplomatic move IMO.

 

[sohailbutt1987]

Hand him over to Indian Daesh!

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

All of it Actually !! Well if you might be interested to look at Vienna Convention you might notice such a provision exists and being a signatory to it, though art not to be violated.

DOES NOT APPLY ON SPIES.

Spy or no spy consular access is not a great liberty nor is it any form of pardon or acquittal. It's a bit foolish to peremptorily declare the man an Indian spy but refuse to grant consular access. Consular access is essentially legal assistance from the embassy, not a flight ticket out. He can still be tried in Pakistan, convicted and sentenced .

At the height of the cold war an american CIA pilot was shot down over the USSR and he was granted consular access without much fuss - and that chap was a real spy piloting what was literally a spyplane. The American embassy officially aided his defense in trial (though he was eventually convicted). Later, of course, he was exchanged in a prisoner-swap.

Use of consular access aside, the Indian government has explicitly affirmed that he is an Indian national so there is really no legal reason to continue with this refusal. Others have already pointed out the treaty under which signatories are obliged to do so.

A silly diplomatic move IMO.

Vienna convention don't apply on spies. Us pilot was given consular access as US too had done same in return with Russian spy.

 

[Leviza]

Why he is alive yet on TAX payers money ...

hang him...

 

[schoolboy]

DOES NOT APPLY ON SPIES.
Vienna convention don't apply on spies. Us pilot was given consular access as US too had done same in return with Russian spy.

That's erroneous.

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations makes no exceptions [to right of consular access] for spies - or any other category (see Art. 36). Please read the text before commenting. If you also read about the legislative history behind this treaty, it was specifically prepared because both the US and the USSR wanted the right to have consular access in case their spies were captured.

You may be confusing this with the 1929 Third Geneva Convention (for treatment of POWs) which does not obligate a signatory to treating captured spies in a fair manner (that too, during armed conflict). That's the urban legend which people quote to suggest spies can be shot without trial. Nothing to do with consular access, though.

Like I said before, there seems to be an (incorrect) perception that providing consular access = get out of jail free card. This silly refusal is a wilful breach by the Pak. government and sets a bad precedent. The casualty of this will be the next Pakistani national who is accused of spying in India.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

That's erroneous.

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations makes no exceptions [to right of consular access] for spies - or any other category (see Art. 36). Please read the text before commenting. If you also read about the legislative history behind this treaty, it was specifically prepared because both the US and the USSR wanted the right to have consular access in case their spies were captured.

You may be confusing this with the 1929 Third Geneva Convention (for treatment of POWs) which does not obligate a signatory to treating captured spies in a fair manner (that too, during armed conflict). That's the urban legend which people quote to suggest spies can be shot without trial. Nothing to do with consular access, though.

Like I said before, there seems to be an (incorrect) perception that providing consular access = get out of jail free card. This silly refusal is a wilful breach by the Pak. government and sets a bad precedent. The casualty of this will be the next Pakistani national who is accused of spying in India.

he is not POW he is a spy.
If combatants violates the rules of war or not wearing proper uniforms or insignia to show the enemy they're legitimate targets while operating behind enemy lines, they don't qualify as prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.

Art. 30. A spy taken in the act shall not be punished without previous trial.
Art. 31. A spy who, after rejoining the army to which he belongs, is subsequently captured by the enemy, is treated as a prisoner of war, and incurs no responsibility for his previous acts of espionage.

Geneva convention don't apply on spy,caught during espionage inside any country in civilian dress.

Under Article 5 of the Convention, the spy may nevertheless be deprived temporarily of certain rights, particularly the right of communication..

Forced evidence before a Camera crew cannot be considered as a part of Evidence any where. I have seen the footage of Kulbhasan Yadav,it is nothing but stage managed. Why is Pakistan reluctant to provide UN acess to Kulbushan Yadav.


What is there left to spy in Pakistan, literally nothing

54 evidences like him are also in custody. 700 evidences were caught who indirectly worked for him.

 

[schoolboy]

he is not POW he is a spy.
If combatants violates the rules of war or not wearing proper uniforms or insignia to show the enemy they're legitimate targets while operating behind enemy lines, they don't qualify as prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.

Art. 30. A spy taken in the act shall not be punished without previous trial.
Art. 31. A spy who, after rejoining the army to which he belongs, is subsequently captured by the enemy, is treated as a prisoner of war, and incurs no responsibility for his previous acts of espionage.

Geneva convention don't apply on spy,caught during espionage inside any country in civilian dress.

Under Article 5 of the Convention, the spy may nevertheless be deprived temporarily of certain rights, particularly the right of communication..

The Geneva Convention (that you refer to) has nothing to do with consular access.

Consular access is a right arising from the 1963 Vienna Convention (different treaty)

The Geneva Convention deals with the treatment of POWs. It obligates signatory countries to provide some degree of protection, due-process etc. That obligation does not extend to spies (or unlawful combatants). Even this by the way applies only in time of armed conflict.

However the request of the Indian Government for consular access to Kulbhushan Jadhav is not a request that he be given good food / immunity etc. Consular access means officials of the Indian embassy can speak to him, provide him financial / legal guidance as may be necessary. This right [to consular access] is from the Vienna Convention which provides the right to all persons who are detained.

Understanding this legal position is important - I get the sense that one this issue, as with some others, the Pakistan FO is just not getting good legal advice or is determined to disregard the law. If Pakistan believes he is a spy and has evidence then by all means try the man as per the law.