India actually lost Kargil war: Gen Pal

[RazPaK]

Pakistan retired Lt General Jamshed Gulzar Kiani revealed that Musharraf pleaded before Nawaz Sharif to visit Bill Clinton to stop the war. Musharraf was already sensing defeat and humiliation after the fall of Tololing peak.



What was Pakistan's real casualties in the conflict. Musharraf, ISPR and your PM Nawaz Sharif all gave conflicting figures about Pakistani casualties in the war.

Sonny, in a conflict such as this, Mujaheedeen took down how many of your air assets?

 

[INDIC]

Yup.

And that's why IA got raped in Kargil.

Pakistan also conquered mars.

 

[RazPaK]

Look at this iconic photo, and the whole world knows.

 

[INDIC]

Look at this iconic photo, and the whole world knows.

This one was more iconic, parde ki piche teesra insaan Musharraf hai.

 

[RazPaK]

Some “Facts” About Kargil Conflict, 1999

By Lt Col Rashid Zia Cheema

This is a very brief account of what happened in Kargil in 1999. It is meant for those readers who are totally unaware about the broad details of this operation. Ones interested in details about tactical and strategical aspects and lessons learnt etc, are requested to do their own research on the Internet.
The Kargil Conflict was an armed conflict between India and Pakistan that took place between May and July 1999 in the Kargil district of Occupied Kashmir and elsewhere along the Line of Control (LOC). The conflict is also referred to as “Operation Koh-e-Paima”.

The strategically located town of Kargil.

The cause of the war was the infiltration of Pakistani soldiers and Kashmiri militants into positions on the Indian side of the LOC . Pakistani troops did not cross the International Borders at any stage of the conflict. Pakistan’s objective was to drive Indians out of Siachin and highlight Kashmir Issue in the eyes of the world. In the spring of 1999, on the orders of Pakistan Army Chief, General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani soldiers climbed up the snow-bound passes and occupied some high positions, including Tiger Hill and Point 5353, in the vacant area and infiltrated almost 10 km into the Indian territory. These positions overlooked Indian National Highway (NH 1 D). Pakistan was in a strong position to cut off supplies and winter dumping and thus force Indians to withdraw from the Siachin Glacier.
The Indian were caught off guard. They tried to evict the positions but failed miserably. They used a large number of Artillery guns and also used their air force against Pakistani positions. Two Indian aircraft were also shot down by Stinger Missiles. Indian aircraft violated Pakistani air space but they never admitted it openly. One of their pilots, Flight Lieutenant Nachiketa, who ejected after his aircraft was shot down, was captured from the Pakistani territory. Indians ultimately complained to the International community and finally on pressure by the USA, Pakistani Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, ordered the withdrawal of troops. Most of the casualties of “Operation Koh-e-Paima” were inflicted during the withdrawal. In General Musharraf’s words “A military victory was converted into a political defeat.”
An Indian officer told in an interview (Video at the end of this page) that normally the ratio between the attacking force and the defending force is 3:1 but due to the high altitude of the battleground Indian Army Chief increased it to 15:1 but yet they were unable to capture the positions occupied by Pakistani troops. Point 5353 is the highest point in Drass-Kargil area. Its recapture was the most important objective for Indian forces during the Kargil War. But they could never come close to it. Point 5353 is still occupied by Pakistan, even 14 years after the battle. Pakistan has since fortified it with reinforced bunkers. After the end of the war, Indians tried many times to capture Point 5353 but all their efforts failed. India has now given up the post as ‘untenable’. Also read the article Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 Still Pak-Occupied published in The Indian Express on 13 July 2009.

Pakistani position on Point 5353 overlooking Indian National Highway (NH 1D).

Also read the following article published in India Today on February 2, 2013:-
Gen VK Singh praises Pervez Musharraf’s courage for crossing LoC before 1999 Kargil operation
Please see a video which gives the real facts of Kargil War by Pakistani, British and Indian TVs. This video shows General Pervez Musharraf and Jaswant Singh, former Indian Foreign Minister in the talk show “The Outsider With Tim Sebastian” hosted by the legendary BBC journalist Tim Sebastian. This video also includes a talk show of ARY News with Chaudhry Shujaat and General Musharraf. India TV gives glimpses of the War and tells about the destruction of Ammunition Depot by Pakistani fire which caused Rs. 100 Crore loss to India. Then lastly a brief interview conducted by a female host of ND TV of India with Musharraf where she asks him,”Do you have any regrets about Kargil now that you are such a welcome visitor in India?”
I am no fan of General Musharraf but I like the way he smilingly gave her a very apt reply,”Do you expect me to ever say that ‘Yes, I regret it’ ? If somebody was to ask Indian Prime Minister ‘Do you regret having divided Pakistan and made Bangla Desh?’, would he say ‘yes, we are very sorry’? How would you expect that I would regret?”

Kargil War 1999 | Real Facts about Kargil Conflict

Yup that's the truth which shatters Indian egos like glass.

Some comments from PA soldiers:

Lt Gen Jamil Haider (2nd SSC) says:
June 11, 2013 at 05:17
Dear Cheema, I happened to be part of the Conflict being Comd Arty FCNA. No one goes into the depth of reasons which forced the whole episode. No one talks of the Indian intentions and placing of Indian 70 Bde in Mashkoh Valley contrary to its usual deployment in Srinagar Valley during winters and our preemptive move. No one talks of the environment of 1997/1998 and the linkages with the situation in 12 Div. No one highlights the absence of move of our strategic forces which encouraged the Indians to move all assets up and achieve the 15:1 parity. The role of Indian Arty and IAF is totally over bloated. It can be gauged from the facts that a total of only 12 individuals sustained injuries on gun positions on the entire front of 400 kms and the IAF could knock out only 16 individuals and some stores through over 1500 sorties. One can have long sessions on this issue, I’ll leave it at that. My heart goes out to all those brave men and officers who roughed it out in those trying conditions. Its easy to criticize and in hindsight everyone becomes a thinker. Regards.

Maj Hasan Jawaid (1st SSC) says:
May 31, 2013 at 03:04
Without naming, one of my friend and a current senior officer in Pakistan Army who was here in USA a couple of years ago, out of our casual conversation mentioned that Indian Army doesn’t even blink twice when they are asked to share the information officially about their nuclear assets which is part of annual exchange of information program.

I have seen this myself first hand as a 2/Lt in Cholistan in 1972. Indians didn’t have the jewels to come inside our territory and I myself, call it a stupid gung ho, intruded behind their defence lines many a times. At one point, they sent a sortie after us. At the end of the day, I called Div HQ and informed them of this. Gen Jehanzeb Arbab happened to visit us on the border and was aware of it. His words were – ‘keep it up’, bring down the aircraft if it intrudes again.

As for Nawaz Sharif, some of the newspapers had also mentioned him and his son Hasan Nawaz’s having close ties with Atal Bihari Vajpayee during
their time as prime ministers. At one point, Hasan Nawaz had also requested Atal Bihari Vajpayee to intervene and rescue his father. I am not surprised because this runs in the family.

Lt Col Masood Alam (Retd) says:
May 30, 2013 at 08:25
Reply of Gen Musharraf is like a great statesman and a great leader. Pakistan had defeated India in this battle but our politicians and media persons are bent upon telling every one that we lost. I remember in those days Indian media was crying on their great losses which Pakistan Army had inflicted upon them. Pakistan and Pakistan Army Zindabad!!

 

[INDIC]

Sonny, in a conflict such as this, Mujaheedeen took down how many of your air assets?

Northern Light infantry is the correct term. Tell me who is speaking truth about casualties ISPR or Musharraf or Nawaz Sharif or none.

Kargil War 1999 | Real Facts about Kargil Conflict

Yup that's the truth which shatters Indian egos like glass.

Some comments from PA soldiers:

Tiger hill is taller than tiny point 5353.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

seems like these pointless circle discussions pop up every couple of months and its the same as usual

Pak members: We won because we took point 5353 and had to retreat because Indians ran to the US (when it was actually the Pakistanis seeking to internationalize the issue from the start leading to Sharif coming to the US on July 4th 1999 to seek president Clinton's help to end the conflict since the Pakistani's were facing a grim war scenario due to amassing casualties and no supply lines to help them.

Indian members: We won because we got the territory back (excluding 5353) and had less casualties, despite the fact that 2 aircraft and a helicopter were lost near 600 soldiers as casualties

the Pakistani's paid the price in terms of economics and manpower (who knows how many soldiers/irregulars were killed in the ensuing Indian counter attack) The Indians paid the price in terms of manpower as well and materials For either side to say they "won" would be ridiculous especially for the Pakistanis since their economy weakened in the aftermath and their so called "democracy" was thrown away like a gum wrapper.

 

[Bratva]

Did you read this crap in rupeenews.

Ah,,, ignorance is bliss. Zee news broke this news actually at height of war

 

[INDIC]

Ah,,, ignorance is bliss. Zee news broke this news actually at height of war

Jhooth nahi bolte, you read that in rupeenews.

 

[Bratva]

Jhooth nahi bolte, you read that in rupeenews.

Why not google that. Agar jhoot nikli baat, I'm willing to resign from this forum.

 

[INDIC]

Why not google that. Agar jhoot nikli baat, I'm willing to resign from this forum.

Kar lo google.

 

[Bratva]

Kar lo google.

Kar lia.. aur Zee news ki mil bhi gai ....

Northern Light infantry is the correct term. Tell me who is speaking truth about casualties ISPR or Musharraf or Nawaz Sharif or none.



Tiger hill is taller than tiny point 5353.

and Point 5353 is as important as tiger hill

 

[INDIC]

Kar lia.. aur Zee news ki mil bhi gai ....

Did you find the word coffin shortage anywhere.

and Point 5353 is as important as tiger hill

Point 5353 is a tiny worthless peak.

 

[Contrarian]

If we lost I guess Kargil must be in Pakistan's control now!

 

[Koovie]

Another pathetic attempt to save face